So, if I were to buy our first ever crawler?

[SWF]

Well

 

Our main bash spot is about to become a building site, so the numerous local woods and quarries are starting to draw our attention.

 

Best that we can work out, speed is quite easy, but crawling is not straightforward.

 

Our starting point is an Axial Capra or Gmade R1, other than loving the look of the VS4-10, is their much point in looking further than that, with a few mods maybe, or is there a better option?

 

Performance is king here, we’re not looking for scale detail.

 

Reviews don’t make anything look standout as far as we can see, tyres seem important too, so any input is much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Lone-wolf]

I would be looking at the Capra over the R1, also if kit version think brushless crawler motor, also 2.2 wheels and like you say really good tyres, keep the weight low down

[turok007]

If performance is top of the list  i would go R1 as it has portal axles   Are you sure you don't want scale look  as you mention the VS4-10

[SWF]

Hi

 

I mention the VS4-10 as it looks really capable and doesn’t seem to topple over like most of the scale cars I have watched on YouTube. I don’t want to get into the scale detail though, which I know that I would, should I get a scale lookalike. I wouldn’t want to scratch it.

 

It looks like a Capra or R1, or other, could be made completely, with decent upgrades to power plant and tyres, for the kit price of the VS4-10 too?

 

You used to be able to find 1/1 off-road trials on Sky at one time, where the Unimog was king and the Suzuki jeep showed the Landrovers where to go, haha.

 

I’m watching too much on YouTube and getting confused that’s all, a sign of old age no doubt!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[turok007]

49 minutes ago, SWF said:

Hi

 

I mention the VS4-10 as it looks really capable and doesn’t seem to topple over like most of the scale cars I have watched on YouTube. I don’t want to get into the scale detail though, which I know that I would, should I get a scale lookalike. I wouldn’t want to scratch it.

 

It looks like a Capra or R1, or other, could be made completely, with decent upgrades to power plant and tyres, for the kit price of the VS4-10 too?

 

You used to be able to find 1/1 off-road trials on Sky at one time, where the Unimog was king and the Suzuki jeep showed the Landrovers where to go, haha.

 

I’m watching too much on YouTube and getting confused that’s all, a sign of old age no doubt!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

Be careful of youtube as some videos are paid for  or are given the item for free

[Redback]

If performance is what your after i would avoid the g1, they are very top heavy with its high cage and center of gravity, The portal gears are pot alloy and can not take the torque, either the pins will shear or the gears will get munched up.
The capra is better out the box, just watch the weak axle plastics, if you can pick an upgraded one grab it!
VS4 is overpriced but a bulletproof bit of kit, the little slop really makes it a performer, however a cheap ftx highrock can do pretty much everything a vsr4 can do.
Maybe have a look around the middle ground, gmade bom or buffalo, trx4 with loads of brass. Element enduro and hobao dc1 are also solid crawlers.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Redback

[Lone-wolf]

I am starting to see why the Element Ecto is gaining favour, not a true scaler but a kinda wagon body but it does seem to be very good out of the box

[stimpy]

From the above I would recommend a Capra for both Trail, crawl and a bit of bash. The dig unit can be a bit finicky to set up but does work. 
 

Lots of upgrades and plenty available spares should you need them. 
 

My passion is rock crawling, don’t do trailing. The Capra is reasonable out the box, if you wanted more you’d be looking at bespoke builds with carbon chassis rails and low centre of gravity , overdrive etc. These then would not trail well... So horses for courses...

 

One other model of consideration would be the Traxxas TRX sport. This is fairly bomb proof, can be made to perform on both disciplines and has plenty of available spares and upgrades... 

 

See what takes your fancy, but certainly with woodland you probably want a multi discipline truck 👍

[turok007]

If the area is very rough  then you need a crawler not a trail truck.  only saying as you said performance 

 

You might not want to  go to mad on price if it is your first  just in case it's not your thing

Edited October 17, 2021 by turok007

[turok007]

When someone says crawler i think of something like this.

[stimpy]

@turok007 To me I see exactly the same especially having come up on 2.2 comp crawlers. However.... The line seems to have been blurred these days and the term "Crawler" more generically used... 

 

From my understanding I guess these days:

 

2.2 Comp crawlers = Comp Crawler

Trailing = Trailer

Crawling = Trailing but with harder obstacles!

 

To add to all this we have Scale Comp Crawlers & Scale Rock Crawlers!! 😂 The line between some of them can be thin also... Though:

 

Scale Comp Crawler = C1/C2/C3 Sorrca spec rigs usually with winches etc getting over a wide range of technical terrain with obstacles.

Scale Rock Crawler = Low CG, no winch, generally run in technical rocky terrain.... 

 

Caught up yet?!!?!?😂

 

Now to add to all of this.... The Comp Crawler scene has also added a "Scale Performance" class! Which is basically the scale lcg rock crawlers run in a competition environment 👍

 

Keep on RC'ing folks!!!

 

 

[SWF]

Hi Stimpy

 

Well said that man! I had no idea that there were so many variations.

 

No competition for me, just the quarries, woods and castle to conquer. Mud, puddles and rocks to negotiate.

 

We have no idea where we fit into the hierarchy, but it looks tougher than trail to me, so crawling it is? I’d love something like in the picture above, but have no idea if it’ll be something that truly interests us, until we have a go. Just don’t want to start with something that can’t perform no matter what, so as to give things a chance!

Does the Capra cut it at that level and how do cars like the Gmade BOM compare? Others to consider like Element, Traxxas or ftx?

 

Still not after scale looks really, but wouldn’t rule it out if that is how the correct vehicle come though.

 

Thanks all for the pointers thus far!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

 

[Ross9999992]

I’m finally getting into the bigger scale crawling using an ftx ravine (£90 from appliance electrics). Seems to be a great option as a starter/modder/tester before spunking £500-£1000 on a proper crawler? 👍🏻

[Lone-wolf]

7 hours ago, SWF said:

Hi Stimpy

 

Well said that man! I had no idea that there were so many variations.

 

No competition for me, just the quarries, woods and castle to conquer. Mud, puddles and rocks to negotiate.

 

We have no idea where we fit into the hierarchy, but it looks tougher than trail to me, so crawling it is? I’d love something like in the picture above, but have no idea if it’ll be something that truly interests us, until we have a go. Just don’t want to start with something that can’t perform no matter what, so as to give things a chance!

Does the Capra cut it at that level and how do cars like the Gmade BOM compare? Others to consider like Element, Traxxas or ftx?

 

Still not after scale looks really, but wouldn’t rule it out if that is how the correct vehicle come though.

 

Thanks all for the pointers thus far!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

 

Not sure if you have already said but what is your budget for a crawler? another model to consider is the traxxas summit as a first crawler/ off roader either 1/10 (pricey) or 1/16th

[SWF]

17 hours ago, Jack Reacher said:

Not sure if you have already said but what is your budget for a crawler? another model to consider is the traxxas summit as a first crawler/ off roader either 1/10 (pricey) or 1/16th

Hi

 

Budget wise I was thinking RTR upto £500 with batteries or kit £350, plus tyres and electronics taking it towards £600. Happy to be in a lower price bracket if the performance and reliability can be found.

 

Now I’ve written that down, it sounds a lot for a starter, but rc prices look to be climbing, ho hum!

 

I had a nitro Revo many years ago, it was a pain to maintain due to its relative complexity, so no Summit for me, haha.

 

I recently built a kit, which was great fun and the end result quite rewarding, maybe that would be the way to go, just which one. 
 

Been watching Element Ecto videos today, Capra videos yesterday and I’m still non the wiser. I’m sure bad driving would make more difference than the vehicle itself, so something reliable out of the box, with good tyres, is probably the way I need to be looking?

 

Thanks again all!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Lone-wolf]

I do feel the Ecto would be a very good rig, nicely under budget add a couple of 5200mah lipo`s and you are up and running sub £400, also if you found you really did not like crawlers you would get a pretty good resale early on, if you did like it only upgrade might be heavy beadlock wheels

[stimpy]

On 19/10/2021 at 22:48, SWF said:

Hi

 

Budget wise I was thinking RTR upto £500 with batteries or kit £350, plus tyres and electronics taking it towards £600. Happy to be in a lower price bracket if the performance and reliability can be found.

 

Now I’ve written that down, it sounds a lot for a starter, but rc prices look to be climbing, ho hum!

 

I had a nitro Revo many years ago, it was a pain to maintain due to its relative complexity, so no Summit for me, haha.

 

I recently built a kit, which was great fun and the end result quite rewarding, maybe that would be the way to go, just which one. 
 

Been watching Element Ecto videos today, Capra videos yesterday and I’m still non the wiser. I’m sure bad driving would make more difference than the vehicle itself, so something reliable out of the box, with good tyres, is probably the way I need to be looking?

 

Thanks again all!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

Going back to my main post, you really don't have to fit into any "discipline" at all so long as you are having fun!!..

 

Re above, both of these will give you out the box decent starter performance in multi disciplines. Personally I'm an Axial fanboy but the element rigs get great reviews too. 

 

Other considerations; TRX4 Sport, Axial SCX10.3, then curve ball - SSD Trail King kit.

 

Bottom line they are all good quality and you will have fun with all. Really the differences are:

 

- Portal axle vs regular

- Regular bodies vs Capra caged looks

- Dig option on Capra and SCX10.3

 

As to pure comp rigs, I'd say start at the beginning and see what you like 👍  ( And when / if you want more info just ask or have a look around )..

[darkangelv24]

Hi Steve

It really does depend on where you plan to run and what that terrain looks like. I have come originally from the Comp crawling world but that mostly died off in the UK 9ish years ago, when the emergence of Scale crawers came about. I still have 2 XR10's that i love to use when i get a chance.  For most people 'crawling' is a broad term that all the Comp crawlers and scale crawlers sit under, as stimpy said it can be further split down into a number of classes. 

 

Comp Crawler - I do not go near wood/ trails at all with it, only ever big piles of rocks, sea defenses, quarry's and the like. Although where the 'crawling' hobby started I would now say a niche part of the hobby. slow, controlled, wheel placement and knowing your rig is everything.  Those that get it love it and its awesome fun but its not for everyone. 

 

Now if your looking at the Scale crawler scene which is the majority of the market then there is so much choice and generally each vehicle will have its pro's and cons, but most are pretty good. few things to note. 

if you go for a 2.2 rig it will generally do better in the big rocky sections (Wraith, Gmade GOM, Yeti, Bomber etc) but will just walk over most other obstacles like there is nothing there.

Most people stick to 1.9 rigs, of which there is a huge variety now, these will be more engaging in the forest etc but may struggle a bit in the quarry all depending how big the rocks are.

 

Last weekend at the scale nationals i was out running My Yeti, and swapped cars with someone for an hour or so to a TRX4 Defender, its totally different in what each vehicle can do, the defender walked up some stuff the yeti struggles with and then the next section the opposite.  I don't think there are an truly bad kits out there there are all just different and have their own unique attributes so find one you like the look of buy it, build it, run it then tweak it when it doesn't quite run how you like. That's part of the joy of 'cralwers' is making it your own, very rare you will see two that are identical unless there are both box fresh and sometime some subtle changes can totally change how it drives.

 

out of what you have listed:

I would def say Capra over an R1, i have had an R1 in the past and it was ok but i moved it on eventually, I have a capra and its much more capable. i didn't really buy mine for trailing, but i know others who do run it for that. I stuck 2.2 on mine and stretched the wheelbase a bit to use more for rock crawling, the kit is also a nice build.  

New VS4-10 looks very interesting, i know someone with a pro and an ultra and they both go very well. but the new phoenix has the new gearbox which looks awesome and vanquish build quality is generally some one the best. and it look well thought out with the brass axle inner for strength and low down weight. 

The Hobbywing AXE system is pretty great for these rigs, have one in a trx4 and capra,  seems to actually perform a bit better than the mamba X combo i have in my wraith and yeti for a considerable amount less money. 

 

1 suggestion, if you can find a local group tag along with them for a morning, someone may even lend you a car, i will if you want to come down Birmingham way.  that would give you a change to see multiple vehicles run, and maybe try a few out. 

 

[Lone-wolf]

@darkangelv24 brilliant post, well said and well written post and if the OP wants to tag along one weekend i would be happy to let him run a crawler/trail rig, mine are scale type 1.9 rigs

[SWF]

Hello

 

Thanks darkangel and Jack for the offer of try, I wish I were local as I’d take you up on the offer for sure!

 

This would be our first crawler as I say, but don’t know what would be most suitable, though there are woods and quarries a plenty on our doorstep which are difficult to walk, so should prove entertaining with a crawler. None of our other rc can negotiate much of it, the diff’s and lack of low speed control being the biggest issues.

 

I “want”, though don’t need, the new Vanquish, as it looks right to me. I’m sort of glad that you can’t get them in the UK as temptation might overcome, haha!

 

A couple of things are straight in my mind though. I want exposed wheels and don’t want to chase being a replica of a 1/1 vehicle. Brushless is preferred option too, Holmes Revolver looks interesting but might be annoyingly loud?

 

Top of my list at the moment are the Capra and Element Ecto. I’m trying to weigh up which might be my best startup option regards reliability and mods required out of the box, to circumvent any weakness’ so to speak. Or just import a Vanquish Phoenix, no no no!

 

Thanks again for the offer of a try, wish I were local!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[stimpy]

The New Vanquish looks a good design and no doubt the top quality they are known for... But certainly not exposed wheels...

 

From everything you say.... and everything you listed originally...... and reading between the lines..... You should get a Capra👍

 

With regards the Revolver, I run 2 Snubnose revolvers - the short ones - and they certainly have enough power. I personally love the tortured ghost sound! One point of note; if you don't run one of the new fangled escs then it will be a wee bit glitchy low down. I run both of mine on older escs and on comp scale crawler type things and It really doesn't affect performance at all. But certainly the new Holmes Crawlmaster esc does control them off startup better and removes the sound (which is what a lot of (WEIRD!) folk desire) - it also fool proofs set up - that said there have been a few cases of these smoking themselves and a V3 is due out . I shall wait and try a V3 later this year once all the details are ironed out and the mad rush over.

 

For reference I run the following Snubnoses:

 

1. 1800kv on a Mamba Micro X.

2. 1400KV on a Sidewinder Micro 2.

 

Other motors that I love and that would suit the Capra but still be lighter than most (but not as light as a Snubnose revolver):

 

1. Holmes Puller Pro Stubby - Brushless - I wouldn't go over a 2200kv personally ( I have one of these and they are great all round solid punchy motors)

2. Holmes Magnum Stubby - Brushed - Bloody brilliant these, I wouldn't go below a 16T personally ( Again I have a pair of these on my MOA and they sure are punchy but linear)

3. Holmes Puller Crawl 400 - Brushed - 16T I'd say. ( Ran one of these on the Capra for a brief while - punchy as hell but less linear - more a big power motor with slightly less torque than the others)

 

( Apologies they are all Holmes! I'm a fan boy and they sure make brilliant motors 😍)

 

And if the budget does not stretch to the above then I can also recommend the Holmes brushed Crawlmaster Pro - again in 16T - ran one on the Capra. This is a very smooth motor but not nearly as punchy as the above ones... I do understand that if you want to run water then go brushless. There are of course plenty other motor combos out there, just they are heavier or I don't have 1st hand experience.

 

I choose all my motors on weight really vs their performance. Plenty of folk have put heavier bigger powered motors in all sorts but honestly it just isn't needed!..

 

Any other queries let us know... Or even better still.... Post a pic up of your new Capra 👍😂

[SWF]

Hi Stimpy

 

I am indeed leaning toward the Capra but have a small concern about the reliability of the axles, particularly the front. There seem to be reports of them breaking quite easily, or is this just when lots of brass is added?

 

There don’t appear to be any Crawlmaster Mini in stock, maybe getting ready for the V3?
 

There is more to consider in the drive department for crawlers it seems! Thanks for outlining a solid range of options.

 

It’s a shame there is no room for a Hobbywing all in one, otherwise it would be easy.

 

Then tyres and wheels.

 

Capra with decent power plant and tyres, possibly lower/softer suspension, should be capable to learn with, right?

 

Thanks again

 

Steve

 

 

[Shergar]

Some really excellent advice from Stimpy and quite useful to myself too for a future purchase, cheers 👍
 

Steve you can’t go wrong with Holmes hobbies motor, this was this afternoon 10 minutes into an hours playing ( 😉 )  with the lowliest cheapest brushed HH Trailmaster 540/35 and it’s never causes me bother at all. The motors below the waterline as are 120mm of tyres!

 

RE: breakages I’ve often wondered  if all the breakages you read about have origins in falls the rig encounters whilst crawling, doing impact damage, as much as abuse and general wear causing the failures.

[ibo]

SCX10 Raw build with the Proline Dodge Body and the Hobbywing Quicrun Fusion Crawler 1800kv Motor With Built In ESC perfect for crawling on any suface...

[stimpy]

On 27/10/2021 at 19:11, SWF said:

Hi Stimpy

 

I am indeed leaning toward the Capra but have a small concern about the reliability of the axles, particularly the front. There seem to be reports of them breaking quite easily, or is this just when lots of brass is added?

 

There don’t appear to be any Crawlmaster Mini in stock, maybe getting ready for the V3?
 

There is more to consider in the drive department for crawlers it seems! Thanks for outlining a solid range of options.

 

It’s a shame there is no room for a Hobbywing all in one, otherwise it would be easy.

 

Then tyres and wheels.

 

Capra with decent power plant and tyres, possibly lower/softer suspension, should be capable to learn with, right?

 

Thanks again

 

Steve

 

 

Hey up Steve,

 

Sure some folk have broken axles, but tbh it's more likely their rig has taken some significant tumbles and they've driven it hard with lots of weight on. I've not broken mine and regularly like a ninja flip out of a bind!... Without getting into metal cases I believe the Traxxas TRX units "seem" to get the best rep for reliability... But then that's probably because there are zillions of them and most trail using them not crawl!.. One could always add a metal case later anyway if you were really concerned though most add them for bling factor!

 

Re motors, you can use a hobby wing unit if you like - I just don't as I'm tending to want lower weight or prefer others ( Perhaps I'm a motor snob! 🙀).

 

And yes, Crawlmaster isn't coming back..... They are working on the V3 with completely different parts now I've heard recently... Which will be much more reliable for us all... So for brushless you would be looking at either the; hobby wing lot, sidewinder micro2 (from US or HK) or Mamba micro X (US & HK again). Or you could go with any of the larger esc units; HW offerings, Mamba X etc...

 

Else go brushed, which traditionally offers better low speed control for crawling anyway. ( Though brushless has bridged the gap in a few instances - but not many). Brushed wise on a budget you can use a HW1080 ESC then pick a Holmes can - which can be purchased from REDWINCHES in the UK at least.  I " MAY" be able to let a Crawlmaster Pro and Tekin FXR go possibly (would need to check other rigs) - that is the best motor in the Crawlmaster series and the Tekin is uber light and small (but not cheap!)....

 

Lastly, as an open wheeled rig yes the Capra will give you a good start 👍

 

For interest, I am currently working on a project with my Capra axles actually but put onto one of my own "LCG" chassis  (though this needs a redesign to work properly), I must post my shenanigans on here when I get a mo....