Newbie looking to get into crawling - opinion on these choices...

[sp0oner73]

Hi my first post here.  Me and my Son (just turning 11) have WLToys 959s etc for just messing about with down the park for blasting about and as a kid I had original Tamiyas including the Boomerang and Monster Beetle but we both now want to get into crawling with decent battery life but without spending out on a TRX-4 (although I absolutely love the defender one and am so so tempted!)

 

We have narrowed it down to 3 FTX models we both like:

 

FTX Kanyon - my Son's original choice

FTX Outback 2 (Land Rover) - probably what I will get

FTX OutBack Fury - he now wants this one after watching youtube videos as it seems better/more robust than the Kanyon

 

We have been impressed by all 3 on youtube and reportedly get an hours driving with the Fury's included 2000mah battery on the flat and 1.5 hours on a 3200mah battery. Does this sound right?

 

We will be more off-roading than rock crawling as we live next to a national park forest with plenty of shallow streams and muddy tracks and ditches and gravel tracks within walking distance of where we live. I've already scoped out some great looking spots walking my dogs and really can't wait to give crawling a go!

 

Are these good choices and can anyone explain any technical differences between them with the included motors and spec?

 

Also what is the best option going forward to get even better battery life? 5000mah NiMH worth the upgrade? What run time would one of those give?  I was thinking LiPo however with the associated risks of those i'd rather he stayed with NiMH as he will be taking it back to his Mums house and I don't want him having anything dangerous as small as the risk is with LiPo.

 

Also what is the battery charging time with the standard trickle chargers included with FTX models? Ands what fast chargers can you get and how quickly can they charge the standard 2000mah battery?

 

We both like the appearance of the FTX Outback but it seems too fast for the crawling we want to do although if it could crawl slowly it would be a great combination for speed on the gravel tracks and then crawling for going off-roading. It's one of the many things I like about the TRX-4 having a low and high range so you get to do both types of driving.

 

Many thanks in advance for any replies.

[Redback]

Hello Welcome.

I think you might find the Kanyon a bit too big, they are more 1/8th scale in my mind.
The kanyon being big also performs well, it uses ftx outlaw axles and is the size of a monster truck.
 

Theres some big differences between the outback vs the fury. The outback is wheelbase with a small motor, the fury has center mounted but takes a 540 motor.
The outback 2 is small and light and ive seen them go places others cant.
 

I have driven none of these but do have an FTX Highrock, These have a forward mounted motor and you can mid mount the battery to balance the weight better.
The highrock performs as good if not better than my trx4 in most crawling situations.
The highrock and outback fury share similar parts, key upgrades to stop it rolling over are the metal (not portal) axles and some weighted wheels.
Maybe a 4th choice around the same price as the fury, is the highrock, i like mine albeit modded, would recommend. Body shell cracks very easy tho, so be sure to back the edges with fiber tape.
If your wanting to crawl / go slow / slow down the speed, you can go down to a tiny pinion or higher turn motor or a brushless crawler system like an axe will give you slow power and some speed if you want it with much more control than the stock esc, that should be instantly replaced anyway with a quickrun 1080 if your wanting nice modulation and ability to kreep but still trail on brushed.
 

Trx4 is great but the locking diffs and 2 speed only really matter on the trail or if you want to bash about, its not a performance crawler and have very thick heavy bodies to like to topple over more than the highrock for example.
 

Have you also considered a kit crawler, like an element enduro? or Hobao DC1 a few members here have them and they are very good!
 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Redback
brains

[Stormbringer]

Hi and welcome to the forum 

[DaveDorson]

I was in the same situation and ended up buying Chinese radio and a  Carisma Coyote kit.  To be honest it'd be cheaper to do a RTR though, but for me the build is a part of the experience and I don't have to compromise on what goes into it.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by DaveDorson

[sp0oner73]

22 hours ago, Redback said:

Hello Welcome.

I think you might find the Kanyon a bit too big, they are more 1/8th scale in my mind.
The kanyon being big also performs well, it uses ftx outlaw axles and is the size of a monster truck.
 

Theres some big differences between the outback vs the fury. The outback is wheelbase with a small motor, the fury has center mounted but takes a 540 motor.
The outback 2 is small and light and ive seen them go places others cant.
 

I have driven none of these but do have an FTX Highrock, These have a forward mounted motor and you can mid mount the battery to balance the weight better.
The highrock performs as good if not better than my trx4 in most crawling situations.
The highrock and outback fury share similar parts, key upgrades to stop it rolling over are the metal (not portal) axles and some weighted wheels.
Maybe a 4th choice around the same price as the fury, is the highrock, i like mine albeit modded, would recommend. Body shell cracks very easy tho, so be sure to back the edges with fiber tape.
If your wanting to crawl / go slow / slow down the speed, you can go down to a tiny pinion or higher turn motor or a brushless crawler system like an axe will give you slow power and some speed if you want it with much more control than the stock esc, that should be instantly replaced anyway with a quickrun 1080 if your wanting nice modulation and ability to kreep but still trail on brushed.
 

Trx4 is great but the locking diffs and 2 speed only really matter on the trail or if you want to bash about, its not a performance crawler and have very thick heavy bodies to like to topple over more than the highrock for example.
 

Have you also considered a kit crawler, like an element enduro? or Hobao DC1 a few members here have them and they are very good!
 

 

Thanks. The Fury is for my Son and the Outback 2 for me. Not considered kits we just RTR and max spend it £200 per truck hence the Fury for my Son and the cheaper Outback 2 for me. If I was spending more than that I would go the whole hog and get the TRX4 for me but i'm not doing that at the moment. We won't be rock crawling very much and will be all trails - forest floor with streams, mud, lots of mud and tree stumps and twigs and leaves, tree roots etc. The Kanyon is off the list as my Son prefers the youtube reviews/videos of the Fury. The only upgrades we plan from the start is a higher capacity battery for long run times and a faster charger.

[Redback]

The risk / reward vs lipos is worth it, never had a fire or issue, 2s 3500mha+ should give you a good hour or two of crawling on brushed, 3s 5500mh lipo i run on the axe in the highrock gets me about 4 hours in the cold.
A basic charger setup offered by most shops as a bundel should suit you fine to get you going but for long term look at a decent charger that supports lipo, lihv, lifo, nimh that can charge up to 6s and runs off 12v so you can charge off the car.
Eg https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/215452/

Join a local crawling club also, theres usally tons on face book for all the regions, wealth of information here on the forums too.
Youtube has some good people, check out these for tons of info before you buy always take compliments on things with a grain of salt as thats driver taste not facts.
This guys motors rock!

https://www.youtube.com/user/HolmesHobbies/featured

Decent insights into rigs.

 

When you want to get hard core.

 

Just to swing back to the crawling clubs, even just getting out with others driving the trucks is great fun.
The kids love it... first one the lad went on at the end he said "have we joined the club then, whens the next one, when can we do this again..." well worth it.
Have fun!

[sp0oner73]

9 minutes ago, Redback said:

The risk / reward vs lipos is worth it, never had a fire or issue, 2s 3500mha+ should give you a good hour or two of crawling on brushed, 3s 5500mh lipo i run on the axe in the highrock gets me about 4 hours in the cold.
A basic charger setup offered by most shops as a bundel should suit you fine to get you going but for long term look at a decent charger that supports lipo, lihv, lifo, nimh that can charge up to 6s and runs off 12v so you can charge off the car.
Eg https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/215452/

Join a local crawling club also, theres usally tons on face book for all the regions, wealth of information here on the forums too.
Youtube has some good people, check out these for tons of info before you buy always take compliments on things with a grain of salt as thats driver taste not facts.
This guys motors rock!

https://www.youtube.com/user/HolmesHobbies/featured

Decent insights into rigs.

 

When you want to get hard core.

 

Just to swing back to the crawling clubs, even just getting out with others driving the trucks is great fun.
The kids love it... first one the lad went on at the end he said "have we joined the club then, whens the next one, when can we do this again..." well worth it.
Have fun!

Thanks again.  I'm OK with LiPo I have a DJI drone using them but was thinking for my Son to keep him on NiMH for now. I want the longest run time batteries we can get for our trucks so we can be out for ages and thanks for the charger link. Yes I'd said to my Son today about looking for a club to join both for crawling/trails but also for track racing even if it's just for our WLToys cars for now.

 

I will watch those youtube vids especially the trx4 one as I really do like them in the Landrover shell.

[stimpy]

21 hours ago, sp0oner73 said:

Thanks again.  I'm OK with LiPo I have a DJI drone using them but was thinking for my Son to keep him on NiMH for now. I want the longest run time batteries we can get for our trucks so we can be out for ages and thanks for the charger link. Yes I'd said to my Son today about looking for a club to join both for crawling/trails but also for track racing even if it's just for our WLToys cars for now.

 

I will watch those youtube vids especially the trx4 one as I really do like them in the Landrover shell.

sounds like you're getting tempted!!

[sp0oner73]

The Carisma sca-1e is growing on me for my car  instead of the outback 2. Is the Carisma worth the extra £100 over the Outback 2? I've seen a lot of videos now of the Outback 2 tipping over which is putting me off a bit.

[sp0oner73]

2 hours ago, stimpy said:

sounds like you're getting tempted!!

 

What with the TRX-4? 😄  I'd love one but I think it's just too much money to spend as my first crawler once i've added the cost of a high capacity battery and charger! But yes the more I see them on youtube videos the more I want one!

[DaveDorson]

8 hours ago, sp0oner73 said:

The Carisma sca-1e is growing on me for my car  instead of the outback 2. Is the Carisma worth the extra £100 over the Outback 2? I've seen a lot of videos now of the Outback 2 tipping over which is putting me off a bit.

I thought so, which is why I went that route, but you might not.  Depends what's important to you.

 

I also wanted a kit, wanted to decide what motor to put in, what ESC and what radio to use, so it was worth it for me.

[sp0oner73]

The 2.1 looks improved over the original as the youtube vids i first saw of the coyote were of the original model and now seen the 2.1 on youtube the suspension looks better/softer wit a better motor and gearing. Going to have to weigh up between the Outback 2 and the Coyote 2.1 - my Son is definitely getting the Outback Fury. Oh and I keep looking at the FTX Outback Hi-Rock as well now 😁

Edited March 29, 2021 by sp0oner73

[sp0oner73]

OK what is better the Hi Rock or the Coyote 2.1? These 2 are top of my list now for my crawler and roughly the same price point. I prefer the Hi Rock's looks and looks like it has quite a pace when the throttle is given some and the specs look good in terms of servo, motor and esc for the price?

[Stormbringer]

Just to stir it up a bit what about the DC1 theres 2 versions of it an rtr and a kit

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/?products[query]=dc1

and an owners section my son and i both have the kit version and really enjoying using them plus you can add bits to them 

 

[sp0oner73]

Thanks but that's over budget for me, the Hi-Rock at £255 is already over budget and the max I will go to just because of the spec - i'd originally  planned on £200 or less. I have to say though they look very nice and the photo of yours is very very cool.

 

The Hi-Rock and Coyote are the 2 just over budget with better spec than the £200 or less options so it's between these 2 after all the youtube videos i've watched.

Edited April 12, 2021 by sp0oner73

[Stormbringer]

Fair enough mate wasnt sure what your budget was so i threw that into the mix 

Thx for compliment but you can see the diferances between our trucks even tho they are all same basic truck 

[sp0oner73]

Cheers yeah I appreciate the suggestions and I could spend a fortune on rc cars so trying to keep it to a budget - on top of the 1:10s i've been looking at also getting an axial scx24 for some indoor/garden driving - youtube has a lot to answer for and have spent literally hours with my 10 year old looking at rc stuff. I started off wanting another nitro but seeing how batteries have come along I started looking back at electric cars then saw crawlers and me and my youngest were hooked. We like our blasting about down the park but the crawling looks so addictive 😎

[Redback]

39 minutes ago, sp0oner73 said:

Cheers yeah I appreciate the suggestions and I could spend a fortune on rc cars so trying to keep it to a budget - on top of the 1:10s i've been looking at also getting an axial scx24 for some indoor/garden driving - youtube has a lot to answer for and have spent literally hours with my 10 year old looking at rc stuff. I started off wanting another nitro but seeing how batteries have come along I started looking back at electric cars then saw crawlers and me and my youngest were hooked. We like our blasting about down the park but the crawling looks so addictive 😎

I dont have a coytoe but i do have a highrock, along with other crawlers.
High rocks is good, I enjoy mine greatly but it took a while to get right.
The stock motor and esc are pretty rubbish for crawling (to fast and to little modulation / breaking) yes they work but they are bare minimum to get the truck moving.
Also due to the tall narrow tires, it stands quite tall and has lots of high up weight, first mod needed was metal axles and wheels to keep the weight down low and stop it rolling on its side.
I also have a trx4 and the highrock is just as capable once got right, its my favorite of all my trail trucks. But as a heads up, you put the same cost of the truck into addons to get it to a sweet spot.

250£+ truck
100£+ brushless crawler combo
50£+ tiers and wheels
50£+ winch, scale acessories
50£  steel axles

Just food for thought, if your concerned about budget, heres the real costs to expect :).

Edited April 12, 2021 by Redback

[sp0oner73]

22 hours ago, Redback said:

I dont have a coytoe but i do have a highrock, along with other crawlers.
High rocks is good, I enjoy mine greatly but it took a while to get right.
The stock motor and esc are pretty rubbish for crawling (to fast and to little modulation / breaking) yes they work but they are bare minimum to get the truck moving.
Also due to the tall narrow tires, it stands quite tall and has lots of high up weight, first mod needed was metal axles and wheels to keep the weight down low and stop it rolling on its side.
I also have a trx4 and the highrock is just as capable once got right, its my favorite of all my trail trucks. But as a heads up, you put the same cost of the truck into addons to get it to a sweet spot.

250£+ truck
100£+ brushless crawler combo
50£+ tiers and wheels
50£+ winch, scale acessories
50£  steel axles

Just food for thought, if your concerned about budget, heres the real costs to expect :).

Thanks for the info and yes the height was the one thing that stood out to me that it could be top heavy and the Coyote is very wide in comparison so looks a lot more stable. I know just from the small amount if reading i've done on here a lot of people rate the Coyote straight out of the box. If I was spending another £250 on the Hi-Rock then i'd be better off just buying a TRX4 in the first place. It was the Hi-Rock's appearance that I liked being an 80's Toyota HiLux.  It does look fast in the videos i've seen so have you slowed yours down a lot with the change of motor and esc?

[Redback]

35 minutes ago, sp0oner73 said:

Thanks for the info and yes the height was the one thing that stood out to me that it could be top heavy and the Coyote is very wide in comparison so looks a lot more stable. I know just from the small amount if reading i've done on here a lot of people rate the Coyote straight out of the box. If I was spending another £250 on the Hi-Rock then i'd be better off just buying a TRX4 in the first place. It was the Hi-Rock's appearance that I liked being an 80's Toyota HiLux.  It does look fast in the videos i've seen so have you slowed yours down a lot with the change of motor and esc?

My modified highrock vs a stock trx4 the highrock does better imo. Trx4's dont side hill well due the how high they sit on the portals. I wouldnt be worried about the speed as they are not really supposed to go fast just a walking pace with a bit of punch if needed.
Mines probably slower than stock brushed, but i have alot more modulation and better breaking and control vs the stock brushed setup.
Cant speek for the carisma but the highrocks narrow tall tires and soft sidewalls was the main cause of rollovers.
Id rate the highrock highly as a good starter kit, i enjoy mine its my go to crawler and the cheepest in my fleet, the body cracks easily so dont forget to re inforce it with tape before going out.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Redback

[sp0oner73]

7 minutes ago, Redback said:

My modified highrock vs a stock trx4 the highrock does better imo. Trx4's dont side hill well due the how high they sit on the portals. I wouldnt be worried about the speed as they are not really supposed to go fast just a walking pace with a bit of punch if needed.
Mines probably slower than stock brushed, but i have alot more modulation and better breaking and control vs the stock brushed setup.
Cant speek for the carisma but the highrocks narrow tall tires and soft sidewalls was the main cause of rollovers.
Id rate the highrock highly as a good starter kit, i enjoy mine its my go to crawler and the cheepest in my fleet, the body cracks easily so dont forget to re inforce it with tape before going out.

Great photo! Yeah I knew they were supposed to be slow which is what surprised me in the youtube videos as the HiRock seems to be a lot faster than a lot of crawlers when the throttle is maxed so I did wonder if that made it more difficult to  crawl really slowly. But again the videos make it look pretty capable. I'm a complete novice so i'm easily impressed! If I end up with the Hi Rock I may well be asking for your advice on what parts and where from although I need to do plenty of reading before doing mods as i've no idea about esc and motors and how to change them etc. One question I do have now though is what is the best battery to get for the Hi Rock in terms of max run times on trails and what run time will it give? I need to get a battery for my Son's FTX Outback Fury as well. For a charger i've got your suggestions early on in this thread to look at. My Son's birthday is last day of this month so i've got until then to get everything sorted - at the moment just the Fury is purchased and sat here waiting.

[sp0oner73]

Finally got there and went out with both cars tonight. Thanks for the replies on this thread help me make my mind up as to what to get:

 

 

Had a brilliant time going through streams and forest tracks and then this happened

 

 

It caught on brambles but shear metal? I don't think that's right and shouldn't have happened after only 45 minutes of light driving. What do you think? Do they break that easily?

[Redback]

Hope your lad enjoyed his birthday.

 

5 hours ago, sp0oner73 said:

Finally got there and went out with both cars tonight. Thanks for the replies on this thread help me make my mind up as to what to get:

Had a brilliant time going through streams and forest tracks and then this happened

It caught on brambles but shear metal? I don't think that's right and shouldn't have happened after only 45 minutes of light driving. What do you think? Do they break that easily?

oof thats a shame, Never broken mine there but i did notice it was very floppy when mine arived, concerned it would come loose or snap, i put shrink wrap over that part, maybe thats whats prevented it from snapping.

Never broken a part on the highrock and its had much harder rolls, maybe you got unlucky this time. You can make a new part with some threaded rod or a cut down 3m bolt.
 

[sp0oner73]

4 hours ago, Redback said:

Hope your lad enjoyed his birthday.

 

oof thats a shame, Never broken mine there but i did notice it was very floppy when mine arived, concerned it would come loose or snap, i put shrink wrap over that part, maybe thats whats prevented it from snapping.

Never broken a part on the highrock and its had much harder rolls, maybe you got unlucky this time. You can make a new part with some threaded rod or a cut down 3m bolt.
 

Thanks Redback yes he did he is over the moon with his Outback Fury and I have to say for the price it was (paid £187) it is superb and seems pretty much the same as the Hi Rock with a few bells and whistles left off and obviously a less detailed shell - but he loves the look which is all that matters. It is also considerably faster flat out than the Hi Rock so assuming it's higher geared. Again good for him as he has pretty much got a trail truck and basher in one. We did steep muddy banks out of streams and the Fury went up and down them equally as well as the Hi Rock so he is a very happy 11 year old!

 

That extra protection you have on yours looks good I have no idea how to do that! Do you buy the rubber tube and then place it over the rod and then just heat it up? I have already found the part and ordered last night, just over £6 delivered so can't really moan but also contacted where I bought it from as I don't think it should have broke on it's first run certainly didn't take any knocks or rolls etc so waiting to see what they say/offer.

 

Oh and the 5000mah 2s lipo he had lasted roughly 2 hours 50 minutes run time  which is more than I was expecting and again super impressed and the RC6 charger charges them from flat in 81 minutes. This is all so very different to when I had Tamiya RC as a kid - 20 minutes run time and hours waiting for the battery to charge!

Edited May 5, 2021 by sp0oner73

[stimpy]

13 hours ago, sp0oner73 said:

Thanks Redback yes he did he is over the moon with his Outback Fury and I have to say for the price it was (paid £187) it is superb and seems pretty much the same as the Hi Rock with a few bells and whistles left off and obviously a less detailed shell - but he loves the look which is all that matters. It is also considerably faster flat out than the Hi Rock so assuming it's higher geared. Again good for him as he has pretty much got a trail truck and basher in one. We did steep muddy banks out of streams and the Fury went up and down them equally as well as the Hi Rock so he is a very happy 11 year old!

 

That extra protection you have on yours looks good I have no idea how to do that! Do you buy the rubber tube and then place it over the rod and then just heat it up? I have already found the part and ordered last night, just over £6 delivered so can't really moan but also contacted where I bought it from as I don't think it should have broke on it's first run certainly didn't take any knocks or rolls etc so waiting to see what they say/offer.

 

Oh and the 5000mah 2s lipo he had lasted roughly 2 hours 50 minutes run time  which is more than I was expecting and again super impressed and the RC6 charger charges them from flat in 81 minutes. This is all so very different to when I had Tamiya RC as a kid - 20 minutes run time and hours waiting for the battery to charge!

 

Glad you got there and can now enjoy the drive!.

 

A shame on that broken part... 

 

Lipo rules!!! And 20 mins on your Tamiya?????? You lucky bugger!!! I used to get around 12!! ( At best!)....