Traxxas Patents

[Kpowell911]

3 minutes ago, James1986 said:

 

Do you think that what Traxxas are doing is right then? It's like Shell suddenly patenting petrol.

Its like getting mad at a multi millionaire not paying their taxes due to some loophole some lawyer has found. Its no good getting mad at the individual, you should be getting mad at the fact there is a law/loophole exists in the first place no?

[J.K]

3 minutes ago, Guns said:

Its like getting mad at a multi millionaire not paying their taxes due to some loophole some lawyer has found. Its no good getting mad at the individual, you should be getting mad at the fact there is a law/loophole exists in the first place no?

 

No it's completely different. Traxxas are doing this solely to kill off the competition. And it stinks.

[Kpowell911]

1 minute ago, James1986 said:

 

No it's completely different. Traxxas are doing this solely to kill off the competition. And it stinks.

I cant say its morally correct, just like the tax avoidance example. However in terms of business, its very clever and if you were the boss of Traxxas/the rich person, youd do the same. No?

[dazp1976]

3 hours ago, .AJ. said:

So it’s true when Proline said they can’t make a wheelie bar for the PMT 4x4 because Traxxarse have a Patent on it...... Same story with a WP RX box....

 

• Wheelie bar apparatus for a model vehicle

  Patent number: 7578721

  Abstract: A wheelie bar assembly for a model vehicle has a mast member having one or fasteners for securing the mast member to a model vehicle, a bearing support member having a length and secured to the mast member for pivotal movement about one or more pivot points, a bearing support member having a length and secured to the mast member for pivotal movement about one or more pivot points, a bearing element secured to or formed on the bearing support member for contacting a surface underlying the vehicle and resisting a wheelie of the vehicle, an adjustment member secured to the mast member for pivotal movement relative to both the mast member and the bearing support member, and the adjustment member being securable to a plurality of different locations along the length of the bearing support member to vary the position of the bearing support member relative to the mast member and a surface underlying the vehicle.

  Type: Grant

  Filed: February 15, 2006

  Date of Patent: August 25, 2009

  Assignee: Traxxas LP

  Inventor: Otto Karl Allmendinger

   

 

 

Ah. This makes sense to me now you mention it about a HPI part for the Trophy's.

Newer WP RX box part 101826  has now been discontinued.

The older non WP one 101056 or 101155 are now back on the rtr's .. Pants.

 

This is what happens when you get sued by Trax and almost bust.

[Kpowell911]

6 minutes ago, dazp1976 said:

 

 

Ah. This makes sense to me now you mention it about a HPI part for the Trophy's.

Newer WP RX box part 101826  has now been discontinued.

The older non WP one 101056 or 101155 are now back on the rtr's .. Pants.

 

This is what happens when you get sued by Trax and almost bust.

Maybe Traxxas are doing this because theyve saw whats happened to HPI over the past few years. Maybe if HPI had stopped the Baja clones they’d not be in the position theyre in now?

[dazp1976]

15 minutes ago, Guns said:

Maybe Traxxas are doing this because theyve saw whats happened to HPI over the past few years. Maybe if HPI had stopped the Baja clones they’d not be in the position theyre in now?

HPI initially got into trouble because of Traxxas. They sued them over one of their patents.

Also Traxxas have sued horizon hobby and vaterra, hobbico, hobbyking, red cat, wl toys, you name it .

 

It's not healthy.

 

Yes they should have patented the Baja I guess. Patents cost a $$$$$$ load though.

Arrma will be next for doing a wheelie bar for the Nero. Guessing the same for Thunder tiger over theirs on the eMT-A.

Won't be long until they've crippled all.

Edited February 21, 2018 by dazp1976

[Si Coe]

Patents wouldn't have stopped the Baja clones - they can prevent direct sales over the counter in countries that respect US Patent law but thats it. China in particular pays little heed to foreign patents when it applies to items made for internal Chinese markets. Ali-express, TaoBao etc means that those 'China only' items are available worldwide if you want, just not in shops. 

 

Some of the items listed do show how insane US patent law is. There is one there for what looks to be their sliding plastic driveshafts. These appeared on the original Schumacher CAT a year before Traxxas even formed, and Schumacher were unable to patent them in the UK as they were basically just a scaled down version of a full scale design ie not a new invention in the first place! The same goes for that onboard suspension they've sued over before (seen on a Schumacher the year Traxxas started making cars, and copied from F1 and other full scale motorsports.

 

This is nothing new and nothing unique to Traxxas. I've seen this in other interests of mine - notably mountain bikes where early pioneering companies more in it for the hobby invent something but don't want the time or hassle to patent it. Then along comes the big name brand who 'buy' the rights to the idea off the original inventor for a modest sum, then patent it and screw over the rest. 

[babylon]

I was wondering who invented low centre of gravity, Turns out it was Traxxas all along.

Also seems that they invented the slipper clutch, But everyone is still using that.

Edited February 21, 2018 by babylon

[PraetoR]

Yeaaahhh... Traxxarse aren't getting a penny, from me.

[Gaz!]

Yeah I agree, it’s wrong what Traxxas are doing morally.

 

but as said, from a business point of view it’s a case of dog eat dog in the global business sector now, so why shouldn’t they be successful? If any one of us owned it, we would want it to be successful too.

 

im guessing it’s like that in any kind of market for goods?

 

would/does it put me off buying one? Not at all, if it’s a Rc I want then so be it. Traxxas DO make some good stuff now. It reminds me of a old saying my grandad taught me, “cutting ones nose off to spite ones face” seems quite apt I think.

 

i can honestly say, my next Traxxas would be a x-maxx after having a blast of my mates on a skate park.

 

im on the fence though as many valid points can be made for each side.

 

just my two penneths worth. 

[mond]

Its a well proven principal that competition drives product development. Traxxas killing their competition through ridiculous law loopholes is good for no one, not even them. The fact that Hobbico had pushed them into developing new products and updating existing, ancient ones is proof of this. 

 

Success in business is done through provide goods and services people want. No one has ever been ultimately successful by killing of all it's competitors. Unless you're talking about Stalin. No one should aim to emulate Stalin. Traxxas is Stalin. The logic is sound.

Edited February 21, 2018 by mond

[Tug]

Look at your walls, they have light switches. There are hundreds of different designs from dozens of manufacturers, but no lawsuits regarding who invented the light switch! 

 

This is absurd and will hurt the hobby greatly! Surely these companies can work around these patents? Manufacturer offshore? 

 

I'm still after the new ERBE, but Traxxas suck. 

[Kpowell911]

TBH Apple have questionable morals and I still own pretty much everything they sell.... Doesn't make it morally right though I know

[mond]

Apple routinely get sued and lose, apart from the operating system, they are essentially just a brand now. Apple also uses other manfucaturers hardware. Apple stopped producing much of it's own hardware quite some time ago. Just look at who makes Apple screens -  their main smartphone competitor. 

[PraetoR]

You beat me to it, I was going to mention Apple.

 

Traxxas, like Apple and EA, will continue to pull the same immoral stunts, as long as they keep getting away with it.

 

The only power we -as consumers- are afforded, is to boycot the products of those companies. I disagree with the notion of "yeah, but they make that one nice product, so I'll buy it anyway". I won't do it, even if there's something they produce that I like. I flat-out refuse to support a company that operates like that.

 

Luckily, for me, they're easy to avoid, as none of those three companies produce a single product (with the exception of the TRX4) that I consider any good.

[Tug]

Don't get me started on Apple! They sued Samsung or Android over their on-screen unlock key, which comes back to my light switch point, they all do the same thing! And it's not like Android could've been using Apple software, even if they look similar! 

[Fly In My Soup]

Lmao, I was going to start this thread AJ some 2-3 wks ago....but envisaged rife arguments so I refrained.......

 

Im no traxxas fanboy, but I do have to agree with big gaz..... In a market where non eastern rc companies are folding at a steady rate who can blame traxxas for trying to protect their products from the rife culture of cloning of intellectual property

 

It is an accepted fact that you can indeed patent something that's already in existence..... As traxxas are patenting a new usage/application in many cases

 

https://bizfluent.com/info-8272193-can-patent-something-already-exists.html

 

Traxxas also have patents granted in Texas, their home state.....a state synonymous with siding with the plaintiff.....if they originate from Texas.....

 

Its quite apparent that the days of gentleman's agreements are over...... Its evolve or die!!! And this is traxxas's way of protecting their business...

 

If anything this should force other companies to innovate more....... Which if they do....will surely lead to them following traxxas and patenting their newly designed parts just to protect themselves!

 

Its more of a case of market dictating response and not an arrogant company dictating to the market....... Even though that's how it comes across sometimes!!

 

 

 

 

[mond]

The problem with your argument is that we end up with company A having to license something off company B despite it already being in production prior to the patent being filed. This is fine if the patented item isn't a commonly used part in the public domain for the last 100 years. It's fine if that invention is theirs to patent and sell licenses for. That licensing is passed onto the consumer i.e. you and me increasing the cost. 

 

The patenting of the cantilever triangle with 3 holes is utterly ridiculous. The fact that the US has a legal system which allows someone to patent something that's in the public domain is even more ridiculous. It's not an intellectual property. They didn't invent it and the item is well used across the world in a number of applications. It's abuse of a loop hole in a legal system that means the person with the most money wins.  I would love one of the big manufacturers in the car industry to take Traxxas to court over it and bring them down several notches. 

 

Now all we need is someone to patent the standard RC shocktower and suspension configuration, and the trailing arm/torsion bar system and you can wave good buy to anyone who can't afford the licensing and the market being dominated by one company. There's no way to inovate around that because the concepts are so fundemental to RC car designs.  These systems have been around for 100+ years. See the original VW beetle. 

[Tug]

^That. 

[J.K]

27 minutes ago, Fly In My Soup said:

 who can blame traxxas for trying to protect their products from the rife culture of cloning of intellectual property

 

But this is the very issue, as Mond put so eloquently. They're not protecting their products, Traxxas are patenting products that other companies invented - with the intention, one can presume of suing those who "copy". It may be legal, but it's totally immoral. The fanboys will say that it's everybody else's fault for not patenting their products. But companies need competition in order to encourage innovation, to try to be the best out there. Thats why we, as the consumer have such a great choice.

[Si Coe]

The interesting bit here is that Traxxas are being really smart about this. Forget who they are sueing, look at who they aren't! Companies that were already using ideas Traxxas patented before they took out the patent aren't being chased - because they know they'd lose the case. Notably they have challenged other companies over the sliding driveshafts, but the re-re Schumacher CAT has them and it wasn't contested. What would be interesting is if Schumacher released a brand new model with that sort of driveshaft - would they chase them then?

[mond]

I don't know but Schumacher  is UK based, so maybe much harder to take action against.  I'm sure being within the EU would also offer considerable protection from malicious US firms trying to take legal action. Well, for the next year anyway. Then we're open to being bullied. 

[Fly In My Soup]

17 minutes ago, Si Coe said:

The interesting bit here is that Traxxas are being really smart about this. Forget who they are sueing, look at who they aren't! Companies that were already using ideas Traxxas patented before they took out the patent aren't being chased - because they know they'd lose the case. Notably they have challenged other companies over the sliding driveshafts, but the re-re Schumacher CAT has them and it wasn't contested. What would be interesting is if Schumacher released a brand new model with that sort of driveshaft - would they chase them then?

 

I noticed that they seem to sue companies based in america only

 

I'm assuming that's due to u.s law.

 

It seems after a bit if research, they're following car marque Ford, who use patents to monopolise the aftermarket part industry.

 

http://www.iam-media.com/industryreports/detail.aspx?g=d3e13349-02d5-4de2-8849-c90f368106ee

 

30 minutes ago, James1986 said:

It may be legal, but it's totally immora

 

 

It may be immoral, but it is good business sense

 

 

Skip to 3:20

 

 

 

More Interesting reading (patent court app.)

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/320063741/Traxxas-v-Hobbico-Amended-Complaint

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Fly In My Soup

[capri-boy]

Simple solution, not that it will bother Traxxas that much as i'd imagine a huge proportion of their turnover is US based  - stop buying their products.

[Fly In My Soup]

On 21/02/2018 at 10:34, capri-boy said:

Simple solution, not that it will bother Traxxas that much as i'd imagine a huge proportion of their turnover is US based  - stop buying their products.

 

Nuff said!

 

Almost 90% of their £20-50m revenue is u.s based

Edited February 21, 2018 by Fly In My Soup