Brand new, about to build my first RC

[Grogg]

Hi.

 

Brand new to RC, the closest I've come in the past was building and experimenting with a few of those mini 4 wheel drive Tamiya 1/32 scale AA things.

 

Some friends of mine are really into it, get together for a thrash about and race quite often, and they've talked me into taking the the plunge.  So I did just that and bought myself a 1/10 scale Tamiya Rock Sock 58592, to join in - it's the model they all have and use the most.

 

Was hoping to start building it today, but time got in the way, so I figured, I'd put the time to use and order the rest of the parts you need to turn the unbuilt kit into a fully functional RC car, and up grades, like an electronic speed controller, 2 servos - I want 4 wheel steering, receiver, transmitter, batteries and charger.

 

Well I've think I hit my first snag, now I think I've decided on a motor and ESC combo, potentially the servos, I know what battery I want to use, but I'm having issues with the receiver.  In short I don 't know if the receiver I'm looking at buying is compatible with everything else, I know the LIPO battery not only fits directly into my kit without any mods, but that it's also compatible with the ESC and motor I'm looking at, as it tell me what the connections are, in this case DEAN connection.  Are the connections on the receivers standard, as in will any 2.4GHZ receiver work with any ESC and and servo?

 

Now I know that the CR-01 is not the best frame for rock crawling, my mates actually use theirs more as stadium trucks/truggies, for speed more than anything else, they get used on flat kept lawns and roads, not really off road.  So I'm wanting to do the same thing with mine, any and all help and suggestions will truly be appreciated.

[Lone-wolf]

welcome to MSUK, the receiver should work with all the other parts, you plug ESC wire into channel 2 and the steering servo into channel 1, standard futaba plugs

[Grogg]

1 minute ago, Lone-wolf said:

welcome to MSUK, the receiver should work with all the other parts, you plug ESC wire into channel 2 and the steering servo into channel 1, standard futaba plugs

 

Thanks

 

Would this also apply for 4 wheel steering where I need to use 2 servos.

[Lone-wolf]

never done 4 wheel steer so cant comment

[Stormbringer]

Hi and welcome to the forum 

If your mates have 4 wheel steer find out how they have done it 

[Grogg]

10 minutes ago, Stormbringer said:

Hi and welcome to the forum 

If your mates have 4 wheel steer find out how they have done it 

 

They won't tell me, they're very very competitive, they've given me some tips, like get better tyres and wheels, suspension, bearings, brushless motor, go 4 wheel steering, use identical servos for the front and rear steering, and get on with the manual and figure the rest out for yourself.  I've watched a good number of hours of youtube videos on it, lurked on many RC forums, and now that I've gone out and bought them, ordered some hop-ups.  I want to confirm I'm buying the right stuff, that'll all work together, and also that I build it once, as in not have to take it apart in the future to install upgrades.

 

So far I've bought 2 5000 mAH lipo batteries, stabilizers, the bearings, reinforced wheel axles, reinforced drive shaft with diff lock, brushless motor, and ESC.  Just making a final decision on a battery charger, servos, transmitter, receiver, and a few other hop-ups  like 54112, 54113, suspension, steering - would really appreciate help with this, and some carbon fiber and aluminum body parts

 

I'm very new to this.

[Stormbringer]

Ive never done 4 wheel steer either but i guess it depends on what you want

This is how i understand it tho if permanent then you could use use a Y lead to work 2 servos of same channel

If you want to use it occasionally then youl need an extra channel to work it ie switch it on off

[Grogg]

10 minutes ago, Stormbringer said:

Ive never done 4 wheel steer either but i guess it depends on what you want

This is how i understand it tho if permanent then you could use use a Y lead to work 2 servos of same channel

If you want to use it occasionally then youl need an extra channel to work it ie switch it on off

 

I've been wondering if that was possible, I've been reading about it and watching youtube videos on it, the turning radius of the CR-01 with two wheel steering is massive, with 4 wheel steering, you can almost turn on the spot.  I've also been wondering since the turning radius is so large, is there a point in setting it up to be able to switch between the two?  I can see the advantages to being able to switch between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive via the transmitter - it can be done, though you have to take the body shell off and switch it manually it takes less than a minute to do.

 

Like I mentioned, this is being built with speed in mind, I don't think I'll be able to hit 70mph, but the Monster Beetle stock goes 16mph, so I'd like to be able to hit over 20mph, preferably over 30mph.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Grogg

[Stormbringer]

I know in crawling applications you can use the internal mixer in the transmitter ( mixes 2 channels )if transmitter has mix function and make it crab or to augment the overall steering depending on switch position 

[Alex97]

Welcome, 

 

Maybe list all of the electronics that you've picked and we can advise from there? 

 

Regarding 4ws yes it's easy to setup with the right controller. For example my controller a flysky GT5 let's you adjust how it works from the controller and uses the 3rd channel spot for the 2nd servo and takes a matter of seconds to turn on or off. You can pick the controller up for about £65. 

 

Most servos and ESCs use the same 3 pin jst connector to connect to the servo, some of the all in one systems use a proprietary connector however this is mainly cheaper RTR kits. 

 

Dean's connectors are used between the ESC and the battery and can be switched by soldering new ones on. Everyone has their preferred connector and for 1/10 XT60s are most popular..

[James.S]

Hello mate, welcome to the forum  

[Kpowell911]

I could be wrong,  but think you potentially need a ‘trick’ radio to mix the rear steer? 
 

Either way, welcome to the forum

[BlackSeaRC]

13 hours ago, Grogg said:

 

I've been wondering if that was possible, I've been reading about it and watching youtube videos on it, the turning radius of the CR-01 with two wheel steering is massive, with 4 wheel steering, you can almost turn on the spot.  I've also been wondering since the turning radius is so large, is there a point in setting it up to be able to switch between the two?  I can see the advantages to being able to switch between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive via the transmitter - it can be done, though you have to take the body shell off and switch it manually it takes less than a minute to do.

 

Like I mentioned, this is being built with speed in mind, I don't think I'll be able to hit 70mph, but the Monster Beetle stock goes 16mph, so I'd like to be able to hit over 20mph, preferably over 30mph.

Just a comment really on your set-up.  You say you are building this truck with speed in mind but please note that this off-road chassis in combination with 4 wheel steering is likely to be quite a handful at high speed.  I had a monster truck with 4 wheel steering where it was set up to steer both axles permanently to reduce the turning circle.  This is fine at low speed but just the smallest amount of steering input at high speed would result in a huge roll-over crash.

[Alex97]

2 hours ago, Kpowell911 said:

I could be wrong,  but think you potentially need a ‘trick’ radio to mix the rear steer? 
 

Either way, welcome to the forum

Flysky controllers do this for you, you can pick several different options and the controller does the rest for you. 

 

[Grogg]

12 hours ago, Alex97 said:

Welcome, 

 

Maybe list all of the electronics that you've picked and we can advise from there? 

 

Regarding 4ws yes it's easy to setup with the right controller. For example my controller a flysky GT5 let's you adjust how it works from the controller and uses the 3rd channel spot for the 2nd servo and takes a matter of seconds to turn on or off. You can pick the controller up for about £65. 

 

Most servos and ESCs use the same 3 pin jst connector to connect to the servo, some of the all in one systems use a proprietary connector however this is mainly cheaper RTR kits. 

 

Dean's connectors are used between the ESC and the battery and can be switched by soldering new ones on. Everyone has their preferred connector and for 1/10 XT60s are most popular..

 

 

Thank you very much for the offer, will do, but I need an early night tonight so will do it tomorrow, I've just ordered the transmitter you suggested, looks perfect for my needs, I came very close to buying one close to triple the price with 7 channels, which is serious overkill considering this will be my very first RC, yet alone building one.  Hopefully I'll have more time over the next few days to actually start on it rather than just read through the building manual.

[Grogg]

@Alex97 Sorry for taking so long to, here's what I went for:

 

Electronic speed controller and engine: Hobbywing EZRUN Combo MAX10 3652SL 5400KV Brushless Motor, from my understanding the engine should run at 6000KV when powered off of a 2s LIPO battery, and I had the shop convert it to a Deans connector

 

Servos: Etronix 30.3kg/ 0.09s Standard Digital Servo, Metal Gear, High Voltage, Waterproof, I bought two of these as I plan on having 4 wheel steering

 

Reciver: Absima CR4S 4-Channel Receiver R4WP Int. Antenna, I skimped out in this part as I've never seen an RC car without an exterior antenna, if it turns out to br as good as an external antenna unit, I'll fork out for the receiver I really want

 

Transmitter: Flysky GT5 w/BS6 Receiver, this looks to be perfect for my needs and feels like a quality piece of kit, glad I went for it over the 7channel Spektrum transmitter I was considering, bought the kit version with the receiver in case the receiver I bought turns out to be rubbish, thanks a lot for pointing it out to me, it never came up in any of the research and searching I'd been doing for a few months before I even bought the RC kit.

 

Battery: Intellect LiPo HC39 2S 5000mAh 7.6v Stick Tam Plug, though I got the  Tamiya connector replaced  with a Dean connector

 

Charger: SkyRC T100 Dual Battery LiPo Balance Charger, I'm starting to think that perhaps I should have bit the bullet and bought the next model up from this

 

And then I've also bought some of the recommended official Tamiya upgrades, and some 3rd party ones.  From my understanding, everything that I've bought is compatible, and work together, and also importantly aimed towards speed, rather than rock crawling.  So all I think I need to get now is better gears, as in gears for speed, rather than rock crawling.

 

Thanks a lot for all of your help.

 

I must say this is getting very very addictive, I haven't even started to build my first RC car, and I'm already thinking about a second Tamiya for road to join in with my mate, when they  have road races.

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Grogg

[Alex97]

The kv of the motor won't increase when only gunning on 2s, as the input voltage is lower the RPM will be lower. That's going to be a very quick motor for that truck, personally I think you'll find it very hard to control and could lead to you damaging parts. 

 

You didn't need an RX as the controller comes with one, also the GT5 will only work with flysky ones that work on the AFHDS 2A frequently so you'll need to return the one you brought. 

 

When you charge the lipo make sure you pick the high voltage option as a normal lipo has a max voltage of 8.4v and a LIHV that you've purchased is 8.7v. 

 

 

Personally I would return what you can and potentially start again or look at a different model. You said you wanted speed however you've picked a rock crawling chassis which isn't really suitable. If you want a monster truck then something like this would run rings around their trucks - https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/associated-rival-mt10-brushless-rtr-truck-v2-red-1347887

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Alex97

[Nitroholic]

Looking at the kit you got, I would say any motor over abouit 3600KV would be likely to just eat the diffs, assuming you can get it geared well enough to run nicely.  A 4-pole lower KV motor will give more torque and smoother low speed running, which is what a rock crawler like this needs. The motor you have is more suited to running flat out on smoother surfaces in something like a stadium truck....and if you run this like that...it will spend a lot of time on its roof.  Or broken.

 

I get you want speed .... but....you bought a truck with a high centre of gravity, soft long travel suspension, and a diff setup intended to crawl.  You also need to look at how you are going to gear this. Tamiyas are notorious for having limited adjustment on the motors to mesh the gears properly. This limits the pinion/spur gear ranges you can fit. As stock, its on a brushed motor with NiMh battery.  A 5400Kv motor will need massively different gearing. I assume your mates are running similar trucks... so check what gearing/motors they are running. Otherwise you have a good chance of finding out the hard way what happens when you get the gearing very wrong on a brushless truck. I'll give you a clue..... it involves smoke, flames, and the smell of burning plastic. Last ESC I had fail like that got hot enough to melt the big fat power wires off their soldered connections.

 

The ESC however, is fine as long as you do get it geared properly.

[Grogg]

@Alex97 Thank you very much for taking the time to reply

 

11 hours ago, Alex97 said:

The kv of the motor won't increase when only gunning on 2s, as the input voltage is lower the RPM will be lower. That's going to be a very quick motor for that truck, personally I think you'll find it very hard to control and could lead to you damaging parts.

 

I understand from reading up on motors, that you actually get more RPM from 5400KV than you do at 6000KV, and it's quite a difference, close to 10% I think, I can't remember where I read it, it might have been on here - I'd been lurking and reading here for a few months before I bought anything.   This is one of the reasons why I decided on the 2S LIPO battery that I got, to ''tame'' it a little, I understand that this model, it's chassis, and gearing is designed for and intended for low speed high torque serious off roading, and with that brings limitations that can either never be compensated for, are going to be very difficult to compensate for, or very expensive to compensate for.  But this is the model my mates all have, and the one they use the most, so it's best to begin with the same model they all have and use all the time.

 

11 hours ago, Alex97 said:

You didn't need an RX as the controller comes with one, also the GT5 will only work with flysky ones that work on the AFHDS 2A frequently so you'll need to return the one you brought.

 

This was and still is one of my concerns with the internal receivers, and why I bought the GT5  that comes with it's own fully compatibly receiver.  The receiver I bought does state in it's description ''This waterproof receiver uses the new AFHDS 2.4GHz ANT frequency technology'', and the GT5 description states ''The Fly Sky FS-GT5 Surface Radio comes with the ever reliable 6 channel 2.4GHz AFHDS 2A (Automatic Frequency Hopping Digital System)''.  I don't know, and couldn't find a definitive answer for it what version of AFDS the receive I bought uses, even the manufacturer's website just states ''This waterproof receiver uses the new AFHDS 2.4GHz ANT frequency technology and has a very compact design with a size of 22.6*20.6*25.5mm. ''.  From my understanding and reading of the protocol section of the Flysky website, the ANT protocol, shouldn't be an issue.  If it turns out to be, I've got the option of using the receiver came with the GT5, and accept that I  won't be using an internal antenna receiver, I don't like the look of an external antenna, pluss it's an extra hole to make in the body shell to make.  I'm planning to test that all the electronic parts work together, before I start assembling the kit, I've just been really busy these last few weeks.

 

11 hours ago, Alex97 said:

Personally I would return what you can and potentially start again or look at a different model. You said you wanted speed however you've picked a rock crawling chassis which isn't really suitable. If you want a monster truck then something like this would run rings around their trucks - https://www.modelsport.co.uk/product/associated-rival-mt10-brushless-rtr-truck-v2-red-1347887

All my mates who are into RC only use Tamiya, they're not a club or anything, it's just that they only use Tamiya RC cars, they have different ones that don't get used nearly as much as their Rock Socker for on road racing, and proper off road racing, nobody I know who is in to RC cars does any rock crawling,  and from what I've been reading and watching on YouTube, the Rock Socker is not really any good at rock crawling, but better suited for use on trails.

 

9 hours ago, Nitroholic said:

Looking at the kit you got, I would say any motor over abouit 3600KV would be likely to just eat the diffs, assuming you can get it geared well enough to run nicely.  A 4-pole lower KV motor will give more torque and smoother low speed running, which is what a rock crawler like this needs. The motor you have is more suited to running flat out on smoother surfaces in something like a stadium truck....and if you run this like that...it will spend a lot of time on its roof.  Or broken.

 

I'm actually not worried about the diffs, one of the upgrades I've bought is the hardened carbon steal lockable diffs kit.  I do have to figure out the the gearing, the kit comes with a 25T pinion gear - I've bought a collection of pinions from 13T up to 27T, and a high tooth count spur gear - I can't remember what it is off hand nor find a link for it.  I know from here that stock the Rock Socker has a gear ratio of 32.4:1, but that can be very easily changed to 50:?:? which is much much faster, I'm just looking for the right gears to use and also where to source them from, pinions I've had no issue sourcing, but spur gears I have been and am still have issues finding, so I'm trying to figure out how to use that formula to work out what tooth count gears to use.  From my understanding if the pinion is 1:1 with the spur it's flat out acceleration, where as I'm happy to sacrifice acceleration for top speed - I'm trying to find a website that does all of these calculations for you - somewhere I read which I can't find art the moment I thought I had booked marked it suggested installing a pinion with a tooth count as close to your spur gear tooth count as possible  or vice versa a spur gear with a close tooth count to your pinion gear.

 

So other than gearing, which I would really appreciate help with, I've only got the wheels and tires left to upgrade, again would really appreciate any and all help with wheels, tires, and perhaps wheel weights - I'm thinking of going from the stock 1.9'' to perhaps 2'' or even 2.2''.  This will be basically used to race around the goals in a loop at each end of a football pitch, more of a lawn than off road car.

 

I understand that this is going to take a lot of practice and skill to control it at high speed, well at as high a speed as I can get it to go, but that to me is part of the fun

 

Thanks a lot for you help and suggestions, it's very much appreciated

Edited February 18, 2023 by Grogg

[Rustic Ade]

Hello.

 

Wow, when you said new to RC you put me to shame! You really have leapt straight in.

 

Good on you.

 

When I ask questions the great folk on here must roll their eyes and adopt their kindest and  best 'talking to an idiot' voices.

 

You seem to know your stuff!

[Kpowell911]

I think youve confused the motor limit of your esc (it says 6000kv on 2s) with the KV of your motor (5400kv). The higher the kv, the higher the RPM. Simple as that. Thats not to say higher kv is “faster” as there is a happy medium to find with the torque. Also your chassis choice isnt really aimed at performance so. 
 

Youve certainly got some interesting electronics there, and you’ve invested a lot in a Rock Socker. It wouldnt have been what Id have bought, but Im sure building it all and getting it all working will be extremely fun!

 

Gearing wise you might be on your own. I cant imagine anyones put such a high kv motor in a CR-01. I think its going go be a lot of trial and error for you. Does the CR01 have limited gearing options like most Tamiya’s?

Edited February 18, 2023 by Kpowell911

[Grogg]

37 minutes ago, Rustic Ade said:

Hello.

 

Wow, when you said new to RC you put me to shame! You really have leapt straight in.

 

Good on you.

 

When I ask questions the great folk on here must roll their eyes and adopt their kindest and  best 'talking to an idiot' voices.

 

You seem to know your stuff!

 

I'm feeling very overwhelmed by it all, I still have questions about bodywork.  But the research and making my own masking templates has been very interesting and a lot of fun.  It helps that I have a bunch of friends who are really into it, but are unwilling due to their competitive nature to help me other than than to give me basic pointers, point me in the general direction, and tell me to read the manual and work the rest out.  Now that I've bought my own and upgrades for it, they've become more protective of the parts they are using, have upgraded, setup and so forth.

 

20 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

I think youve confused the motor limit of your esc (it says 6000kv on 2s) with the KV of your motor (5400kv). The higher the kv, the higher the RPM. Simple as that. Thats not to say higher kv is “faster” as there is a happy medium to find with the torque. Also your chassis choice isnt really aimed at performance so. 
 

Youve certainly got some interesting electronics there, and you’ve invested a lot in a Rock Socker. It wouldnt have been what Id have bought, but Im sure building it all and getting it all working will be extremely fun!

 

I thought I read somewhere that 6000KV produced less RPM than 5400KV.  You're right about the model and chassis  I have, but as I say it's the one all my friends have and use the most, so it makes the most sense for it to be the one I start with.  Personally I would have gone with something on either a DT-03, DT-03T, DT-02, DF-03, XV-02 or TT-02B chassis, like what my mates use when they are proper off roading with their RCs.  So I might get one of therm next, or a on road one for on road racing rather than what this is going to be, which is basically an everyday lawn basher RC

Edited February 18, 2023 by Grogg

[Kpowell911]

Out of curiousity, what motors are your friends running in their CR-01s?

 

I know this is a pointless comment as I know your reply but there are other brands other than Tamiya. Im a huge Tamiya fan and I am in this hobby but because of them, but Tamiyas are often expensive, poorly specced and decades out of date. Their nostalgia is pretty much their only positive trait for an RC in 2023. Just my opinion

[Rustic Ade]

6 minutes ago, Grogg said:

 

I'm feeling very overwhelmed by it all, I still have questions about bodywork.  But the research and making my own masking templates has been very interesting and a lot of fun.  It helps that I have a bunch of friends who are really into it, but are unwilling due to their competitive nature to help me other than than to give me basic pointers, point me in the general direction, and tell me to read the manual and work the rest out.  Now that I've bought my own and upgrades for it, they've become more protective of the parts they are using, have upgraded, setup and so forth.

 

 

I thought I read somewhere that 6000KV produced less RPM than 5400KV.  You're right about the model and chassis  I have, but as I say it's the one all my friends have and use the most, so it makes the most sense for it to be the one I start with.  Personally I would have gone with something on either a DT-03, DT-03T, DT-02, DF-03, XV-02 or TT-02B chassis, like what my mates use when they are proper off roading with their RCs.  So I might get one of therm next, or a on road one for on road racing rather than what this is going to be, which is basically an everyday lawn basher RC

I'm still impressed, I can't even figure out how to edit my daft comments!

 

Any pictures yet?

[Grogg]

11 minutes ago, Kpowell911 said:

Out of curiousity, what motors are your friends running in their CR-01s?

 

I know this is a pointless comment as I know your reply but there are other brands other than Tamiya. Im a huge Tamiya fan and I am in this hobby but because of them, but Tamiyas are often expensive, poorly specced and decades out of date. Their nostalgia is pretty much their only positive trait for an RC in 2023. Just my opinion

 

All of them are running brushless motors,  brand wise a mixture of Castle, Hobbywing, Spektrum, and a few other brands that I'd never heard of like Monster something.  They're all motors that are intended for high speed, rather than high torque, not anything somebody looking for a rock crawler would even think about using.

 

One of my mates ''Rock Socker'' can go well over 60mph on the road - he has one of those GPS speedos for when he does speed runs, but it is far far from stock, most of the parts are custom built for it, so it's not really a Rock Socker, the only thing made by Tamiya left on it is the body shell, once that's removed it looks nothing like a CR-01, every part is either carbon fiber, carbon hardened steel, or titanium.  But he's spent an absolute fortune on his thing,. easily enough to buy a real second hand car.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Grogg