Element RC Gatekeeper Thread

[Redback]

https://www.modelsport.co.uk/element-enduro-gatekeeper-rock-crawler-builders-kit/rc-car-products/1332924

Couldnt find any threads or posts about this truck, so thought id start one as some one on the fence about picking one up, and if so what the truck was like to drive and work on.
This truck has my interest due to trailing arm suspension, roll cage style body with lots of wheel clearance and what would appear to be support for other enduro chassis components.

 

Questions.
How do these hold up under brushless, seeing all the reviews use brushless but no word on component failures naturally.

I look at the plastic transmission and small tooth size as a weakness and would prefer a 32 pitch. So hows the element stealth transmission, does it hold up well, with no slipper?

Looking at the Element RC Ifs Conversion Kit it should mount to this chassis as the frame and drive train are the same as the other Enduros, can any one confirm this is the case?

From the looks of the truck in videos it looks quite tall and top heavy, what are peoples real experience with the truck, any recommended mods, id prefer to run full size hard case lipos.
What other bodies fit, could you run a pickup body if you wanted to ditch the cage?

 

Personally The stock truck whilst cool looking doesn't seem all that capable, it looks to narrow, tall and weight balance is off, to much bumper overhang.

 

I'm not so keen on the truck as stock because for me its just another solid axle truck drive train wise and im not looking for another one of those I'm looking for something a bit different and this seems to be a flexible platform to work on if other enduro components fit is the biggest selling point for me to get a truck i would like to drive.

 

I'd be I'm looking at putting in the Independent Front Suspension kit,  deep dish wheels with taller 1.9 or small 2.2 wide tires and maybe some drooped shocks to give it some more flex and lower cg.
This way the truck is something completely different to a solid axle crawler and even more so with the trailing arm at the back.

What's y'all thoughts, cheers.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Redback

[.AJ.]

Looks a decent bit of kit! They have only been out a few days in the UK so there’s not much information about them on here, but  @Oh How Original. has just bought one, so he might be able to give a real world view about it 👍 

[Redback]

Awesome keen to hear what he has to say, I just found this that answers my question if the other enduro parts fit.
 

 

Looks like the IFS kit will fit, so its looking more like ill be picking one up also.

[Oh How Original]

A lot of the parts do fit, I don't have one in my hands to compare to my Enduro, but it's essentially a cage on top of the Enduro chassis with different wheels/tyres and trailing arm rear suspension, in a nutshell.

I may end up doing a bit of a side by side comparison, as neither of my Element rigs will be overly upgraded.

[Redback]

Thank you for that, here's tohoping its a fun build! 🍻 Wonder if the transmission can be flipped so the motor weight is forward. Guess will find out soon 😁

[Badcrumble]

I believe you can

 

https://img2.associatedelectrics.com/pdf/cars_and_trucks/Enduro/Sendero_Trail_Truck/Enduro-Transmission-inst.pdf

 

Stealth X: The Stealth X gearbox allows the driver to change the front to rear drive ratios with 3 separate ratio adjustments to the rear drive shaft. The driver has the option to flip the gearbox direction (motor mount facing the front) the optional inverse top shaft (#42024) is required.

[Redback]

oooh awesome thank you for the information, I didnt order the front shaft but heres hoping a cut down plastic rear outlaw shaft fits or the LFS kit comes with a shorter shaft, time will tell and i will too.
All going well with the postman, l'll start the build this weekend pretty excited to see how the truck performs.
As for the rest of the hardware to complete the kit, to start with as not sure how strong the front steering hardware is a 13kg servo, paired with a 35t brushed with 14t pinion on hw1080 ecu on 2s lipo and then move to unsensored brushless and sensored to find the sweet spot, as for the shoes 1.9 canyon tires on heavyweight rims.

 

[Redback]

Started the build, going to have sore arms, the hard plastics propper hard.
Instructions seem clear enough, cracking on.


Thats all that can be done for now until the IFS kit is ready. Havent installed the pan hard as that and the front servo plate gets replaced with the IFS kit.

 

IFS kit started, so far Gate 1 has been pretty aweful, the link rods are round, with no place to grip onto with pliers like most have a square midsection.

 

Screwing these on was a right pain, already scratched the chrome on them.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Redback

[PraetoR]

Should wrap them in electrical tape, or kitchen roll, then squeeze them with pliers. Saves scratching them.

[Redback]

Good to know for next time, thanks @PraetoR

Managed to get a few more bits done before dinner.
Still on the IFS, they don't use shielded bearings on the diff cup outputs and i cant understand the reasoning, so packed it with marine grease to keep most the junk out till i get some rubber or steel shielded bearings.

Front end done, time for the transmission.

 

Seems pretty solid, running the stock overdrive for the time being.

 

Transmission done, time for cuppa and decide what motor to use as the 35t has gone back into the rock buggy.
Might throw the Revolver motor in it for the time being as i know that modulates really well.

 

 

[Redback]

Wrapping up for the night the last few pages havent been as fun.
Rear diff, sealed bearings here, so probably will put the front sealed bearings in the IFS. The diffcovers are a super tight fit and once shut are even harder to open without a prybar.

 

This is where the fustrations start. 14mm screw for the trailing arm to suspension end then a nut... only issue...

 

14mm leaves about 1 1/2 lines of thread for the nut, this cant be right.

 

So gave up for the night, quick check of transition shocks, dont think i'll be using them, so tommorrow shock build and body.

Goodnight.

[Redback]

Day 2 -  Drive time!
Shocks built, easy and clean to build.

 

Chassis done, onto the frame.

 

Frame done, got the rear body pin mounting upside down on the cage, just note theres a slight turn down to the body post holes, if these face up you cant fit in the body pins. other than that was enjoyable.

 

The front CV's makes it lurch under full lock  the steering however outside of full lock feels really nice, and the way the truck rolls and sits i think is great.

 

Next up panels, paint and polish, still not decided on the motor, going to give the axe system a go for a little bit before deciding.

[.AJ.]

You didn’t hang around, it looks a sweet little truck 👍 

[Derka]

What pinion did you go with?

 

The manual suggests a 18T.

[Redback]

7 hours ago, .AJ. said:

You didn’t hang around, it looks a sweet little truck 👍 

Indeed, more time to play and wanted to see how the IFS system would work out. On that point It feels like the IFS kit adds more weight to the front than if it was using a solid axle. So thats cool for crawling.

 

1 hour ago, Derka said:

What pinion did you go with?

 

The manual suggests a 18T.

Still toying with what motor to use, I rather use brushless and didnt put in a brushed crawler system as know what to expect and get a similar experience from the Axe
Anyway not set on a pinion size yet, for the test run i ran 11t on 1800kv 3s and it maxed out at walking pace (ran for over an hour on 1300mha with 30% left over) also took out the 8kg servo and put in a 18kg and it kind of struggles on 6v when in a bind surprized me.
Maybe its IFS kit or the heavyweight rims, it doesn't seem very top heavy and performed better than the trx4 (with same heavy weight rims) on some parts of the trail. Will do a bigger review once the builds finished.
One big sad is the tires rubbing all over the front shock springs. Its much worse when turning on the slightly wider canyon tires, less so on the flat irons, any recommendations for deep dish alloy 1.9 and or / 2.2 beadlocks, thank you.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Redback

[Derka]

I'm sticking with a basic brushed system, HW1080 and a 13T 5-slot. 

 

Tyres wise, that's interesting, You might need a higher offset wheel (+1,2,3 etc) although you could also try wider hexes. Once mine is built I'll let you know if I have any issues. 

 

What you mentioned about lurching on full lock is unfortunately due to the front drive shafts. While the hubs/knuckles can do 45-degrees, the CVD's unfortunately don't like that sharp of an angle. The Axial ones are better, but I don't know if they're compatible with the solid axle or IFS.

 

I have read but have no experience myself about the Vanquish SLW(?) hubs which can alter the offset on compatible wheels. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Derka

[Redback]

Great information @Derka cheers! Looking forward to seeing your build.
I have tried 13mm wideners and 5.85' tires and they rub on the body. 13mm is to wide imo for 1.9 wheels and looks silly. I have some 2.2 bighorns that might work but sticking with the 1.9 size there is 2mm of thread left after the nut with the stock hubs (6mm steel) and some alloy rims, so max i can probably go is 8mm before having to a widener and barrel nut, tired axial hubs with 5mm offset and there wasnt enough thread left for the nut.
Can live with not going full lock, the lurching is noticeable but controllable through reasonable driving. The steering is really tight maybe on par with the trx4?
Going to build the front solid axle to check out the adjustable caster and from the looks of it this IFS kit might fit on the ftx highrock depending on if the diffs fit, from what i recall size wise they are the same the only difference being the tooth count.🤔 So maybe i can use this axle on the highrock but id loose my steel axle

IFS kit hardware is not as good as the gatekeeper hardware, the plastics are quite soft, below standard compared to other models Imo. Plastic pivot balls, plastic hexes, but a steel servo horn so that's nice, would it stand up to 7.4v 28kg servo?
The amount of spare links they supply I'd say no. But lets give it a try🤓

I haven't looked hard into hubs / wheels that do the offset without changing the hex hardware, I've seen some that you get different offset hubs that screw to the rims, maybe those are worth the investment?, but i would then loose the wheel weight swapping from metal to plastic hardware. Can't win them all.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Redback

[Oh How Original]

For the tyres rubbing, just get some wider hubs, assuming your wheels are interchangeable.

If they are the standard LSW style 6 bolt, then any cheap hubs will fit, much more reliable than wide hexes  in my opinion as wider hexes seem to wear pins out quicker, again that's just my opinion/experience of trying both and I run wide hubs on my Power Wagon and Yeti.

Looking forward to building my Gatekeeper, I might stick my 2300kv Axe system in it on 3s.

I had planned to use it in the Capra or my new Enduro Power Wagon build, but apparently the Capra has quite a high final drive ratio and the Enduro Power Wagon will suit brushed more I reckon.

The Axe will be somewhat 'spare'  

[Redback]

Forgot about this little first run video.

Edit.
2.2 Gmade R1 wheels and tires with 13mm wideners fit with minimal frame rubbing, also give much better ground clearance for the IFS diff and no rubbing on the shocks,  still rather 1.9s as the trucks now too wide imo.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Redback

[Badcrumble]

I was watching a recent vid from GCM Racing in which they mentioned bump steer on the IFS kit, apparently sorted by an item from Bowhouse RC. 

https://bowhouserc.com/n2r-steering-rack-for-element-enduro-ifs/

[Redback]

Awesome thank you. Will check that out! Little bit of friday tinkering before weekend of playing.
Decided to see how the Revolver goes as the Axe is back home in the Highrock. Higher KV and 14t pinion so should go a bit faster.

New rims that widen the stance, No rubbing on these.

Tires are placeholder being swapped over for some 120mm x 45mm Baja tires later, last set of Baja truck tires didnt work out way to small (109mm x 35mm (30mm))


Smol tires, also showing the deep dish rims (far right) and the width diffrence to stock for those intrested.

 

Next up finish off body then some more testing maybe some footage if its running well :)
Thanks for reading.

[Derka]

[Redback]

6 hours ago, Derka said:

Looking bad ass in that Blue!
How did you find the build any issues?

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Redback

[Derka]

There are a few places in the manual where the pictures are not clear. Front high clearance links for example, the manual shows a straight link and the front of the cockpit actually mounts on top of the plastic cage but the manual shows it under. A couple of wrong screw sizes too but other than that it was pretty straight forward, but I've built many kits and I'd imagin someone new to the hobby may struggle but then again they would probably buy the RTR in that case.

 

This is my third Enduro kit I've built and I've also had one RTR. 

 

Benefits over the builders kit:

 

- Metal balls in rod ends

- Hard plastics

- Adjustable panhard mount

- Adjustable shock hoop mountings

- Front high clearance links

- FT shock bodies

- Has a reasonably detailed cage/body

- 6mm thick steel hexes

 

Negatives over the builders kit

- Not all machined gears 

- No extra links

- Plastic shock caps, bottoms and spring retainers

 

If you buy the FT High Clearance link set you have a normally adjustable wheelbase, high clearance links and you can 4 link the rear if you don't want trailing arms. Overall I think the value is better with the Gatekeeper than the Builders kit. 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Derka

[Derka]