EU referendum

[The Hound]

Its not stupid, its a way of ensuring a majority who want something to change can make it happen. Not just a large section of a nation

 

[Alex97]

5 minutes ago, The Hound said:

Its not stupid, its a way of ensuring a majority who want something to change can make it happen. Not just a large section of a nation

 

If they wanted it to stay the same or leave then why didn't they vote? 

[RCbutcher]

3 hours ago, ostewart said:

Still find it funny how people voted leave based on immigration and extra money for the NHS, whoever believed them is a bit of an idiot... and what a surprise they did a u-turn on both those policies.

 

Also, why are there people saying, I never thought we'd actually leave, that's why I voted leave... How stupid is that, I'm going to vote leave because I don't think we'll actually leave.

 

And searches for "what is brexit" and "what is the EU" on google rocketed in the UK yesterday after the vote was revealed, don't vote in something you know nothing about.

 

Also the people who say "take our country back from a un elected elite" what about our monarchy...

 

 

"So. To summarise:

The pound hits a 31 year low (I was 10 back then).

£180bn has been wiped off the FTSE.

The two together mean we are no longer the world's 5th largest economy. We just fell behind France.

Housebuilding firms lost 40% of their value this morning. Homes will lose £20,000 of their value by the end of the year.

Bank shares are down 30%. We still own chunks of them. Morgan Stanley are preparing to move 2000 jobs out of the city.

The cap on energy company prices has been cancelled. We import electricity through undersea cables from France and the Netherlands and gas from Norway. Prices are rising.

Small businesses are getting notices from overseas suppliers, cancelling quotes and putting trade on hold.

Posts from various friends around the UK say projects are being cancelled, and EU funding pulled.

Cornwall - which voted to leave - is demanding that the UK match the £60m a year the EU used to give them.

Standard & Poor are reviewing our country's AAA credit rating as they think we're going back into recession.

Gibraltar voted Remain. Spain wants joint control.

Scotland is moving towards a second referendum and independence. Northern Ireland is moving towards unification. London is talking about city state status. The United Kingdom is almost certainly breaking up.

Cameron has quit. He hasn't invoked Article 50. Johnson is saying he can't see any reason to invoke it. The other EU countries are saying we can't delay that move.

The Leave campaign have backtracked on their 'more money for the NHS' promise and on capping immigration.

Got our country 

 

 

I think those Google searches would have been the rest of the world lol. I doubt it was uk traffic

[RCbutcher]

Well if you want the eu there's probably just enough time to jump over the channel and plant roots. It will be rough for afew years but it's been rough for the last decade. The eu didn't save us from the last recession. 

 

Just be sure to buy British when ever possible and I mean made in Britain not just sold it Britain.  

 

The govt should think about legalising canabis that's a $800b trade in Canada. 

 

Usa told us to criminalise it and they've decided to profit from it now why shouldn't we. 

 

I heard one canabis farmer in Washington dc say he pays $300,000 in taxes each year. That's just one dc farmer lol. 

[The Hound]

2 hours ago, Alex97 said:

If they wanted it to stay the same or leave then why didn't they vote? 

because of a few reasons I imagine.

 

don't care enough or have no idea what to think.

 

I understand its a legal requirement in some countries.

 

The reaction of the outcome seems to have rocked the nation, which seeing as its supposed to be good when a majority wins, seems not to be the case.

 

anyway, its done now so it seems. Lets hope the raised awareness of a public vote will up the turnout for the next election. That's one positive to draw in my opinion.

 

its pitifully low normally

[Tug]

20 minutes ago, The Hound said:

because of a few reasons I imagine.

 

don't care enough or have no idea what to think.

 

I understand its a legal requirement in some countries.

 

The reaction of the outcome seems to have rocked the nation, which seeing as its supposed to be good when a majority wins, seems not to be the case.

 

anyway, its done now so it seems. Lets hope the raised awareness of a public vote will up the turnout for the next election. That's one positive to draw in my opinion.

 

its pitifully low normally

 

I posted the comments below in the wrong thread, sadly I'm slower than the average Brexit voter! 

 

I think immigration was definitely the driving force behind the outcome of this vote, which is not what the whole referendum was about or at least wasn't supposed to be about. 

 

So what next? Do we have to initiate Article 50? Is there no way of stopping it and remaining in, but stamping our feet a bit harder? 

 

Sorry for the dumb questions, but this is deep!

[turok007]

18 minutes ago, Tug said:

 

I posted the comments below in the wrong thread, sadly I'm slower than the average Brexit voter! 

 

I think immigration was definitely the driving force behind the outcome of this vote, which is not what the whole referendum was about or at least wasn't supposed to be about. 

 

So what next? Do we have to initiate Article 50? Is there no way of stopping it and remaining in, but stamping our feet a bit harder? 

 

Sorry for the dumb questions, but this is deep!

The PM doesn't have to take any notice of the vote (it is just to see what the public wants) He said he would do a out deal with the EU  but now he says stuff it.  So the voters were lied to again.  And if he hangs on till Oct  then whoever gets in will have to jump straight in with Article 50.  We can survive outside the EU  but they will make it hard for us  As they need us more and need us to stay to make the whole EU thing work.    I did reply to your earlier comment about immigration  but in the placers with more immigration the leave vote was mainly lower.  That's not saying immigration wasn't a factor though.

[Alex97]

58 minutes ago, The Hound said:

because of a few reasons I imagine.

 

don't care enough or have no idea what to think.

 

I understand its a legal requirement in some countries.

 

The reaction of the outcome seems to have rocked the nation, which seeing as its supposed to be good when a majority wins, seems not to be the case.

 

anyway, its done now so it seems. Lets hope the raised awareness of a public vote will up the turnout for the next election. That's one positive to draw in my opinion.

 

its pitifully low normally

Of course there's gonna be some backlash, 16,000,000 people voted to stay and aren't gonna be happy that the leave vote won. The leave side would be the same if they didn't win. 

 

 

[Sharkfat78]

I find it ironic that the people who are wanting a re-vote are the ones who's vote would have removed our democracy if they had have won!

[stretch]

14 minutes ago, Sharkfat78 said:

I find it ironic that the people who are wanting a re-vote are the ones who's vote would have removed our democracy if they had have won!

 

How do you know it isn't people who think they made the wrong decision?

[The Hound]

Just watched some news report and there is a big worry that the million or so Poles that have made this their home, will feel really worried and unwelcome . I'm sure lots of other cultures will sense that too.

Dinner tonight at a very successful Eastern European lady and her Ozzy  husband's place, I know they are gutted. It'll be interesting to hear their side I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sharkfat78]

4 hours ago, stretch said:

 

How do you know it isn't people who think they made the wrong decision?

 

Well that's even worse! They vote for something that will end our democracy, yet still expect that very same democracy to bail them out when they make a mistake. A democracy isn't a computer game. They don't get to start afresh just because they didn't get the score they wanted! 

 

[Carpmart]

So leave have the win, factually this is correct.

 

in life, if you we discussing something with someone and the stats were 51.8% and 48.2%, then everyone would generally refer to this as 50/50.  

 

To my mind, leave (or remain had it statistically nudged the other way) do not have a clear enough mandate, when basically 50% of the population disagree...

[Alex97]

43 minutes ago, Carpmart said:

So leave have the win, factually this is correct.

 

in life, if you we discussing something with someone and the stats were 51.8% and 48.2%, then everyone would generally refer to this as 50/50.  

 

To my mind, leave (or remain had it statistically nudged the other way) do not have a clear enough mandate, when basically 50% of the population disagree...

Even if there was one vote between it should make to difference as we live in a democracy.

 

[Sharkfat78]

1 hour ago, Carpmart said:

To my mind, leave (or remain had it statistically nudged the other way) do not have a clear enough mandate, when basically 50% of the population disagree...

 

It wasn't 50% of the population but 48.2% of those who voted. Doesn't sound much but I know its over a million people. Plus those that didn't vote can't really complain either way

[Si Coe]

Put it this way. If remain won 52/48 you can damn well bet the leave backers would be calling for a second referendum. In fact, when exit polls were suggesting exactly that result Thursday evening Farage was already asking for one! 

 

Anyway there absolutely SHOULD be another one once all deals have been negotiated etc. If we can't cut decent trade deals, if it's going to cost jobs and lead to UK talent fleeing the country - basically if it's going to kill the country then we'd be nuts to do it regardless of Thursday's result. But, if those negotiating can show the world how an independent Britain is a stronger then I think more than very slightly over half would be in favour of going. 

 

We've voted that we want to leave, but we need to agree on the how part before we actually jump. Certainly no way should article  50 be invoked until we have the best deal going....

[dazp1976]

6 hours ago, Alex97 said:

Of course there's gonna be some backlash, 16,000,000 people voted to stay and aren't gonna be happy that the leave vote won. The leave side would be the same if they didn't win. 

I'm not so sure they would. It was a VERY difficult decision that wasn't made lightly and there is anxiousness amongst the leave side. I am sad that there is so much nastiness going on from the remains.

At the end of the day in the 70's we basically joined a free trade union and not a parliament in Brussels that got out of hand and overrules all. For all the other member states to start questioning what the EU represents to them tells you there is something not quite right. Brussels and Merkel you have been sussed!

To all the Veterans that fought for our freedom   "we will not be bought and ruled by Germany".

 

I also caught this bit in a speech by Corbyn this morning "There IS a loophole were big corporation's can/could employ a migrant from a low paying EU country and pay them the equivalent here as they would get over there. This is where the issue of under cutting British workers wages comes in". This will be where a lot of problems will have arisen from and who knows what other kind of loopholes existed.

 

For the first time in a while a party leader looked anxious and wasn't reading from a script.

[Si Coe]

29 minutes ago, Si Coe said:

Put it this way. If remain won 52/48 you can damn well bet the leave backers would be calling for a second referendum. In fact, when exit polls were suggesting exactly that result Thursday evening Farage was already asking for one! 

 

Anyway there absolutely SHOULD be another one once all deals have been negotiated etc. If we can't cut decent trade deals, if it's going to cost jobs and lead to UK talent fleeing the country - basically if it's going to kill the country then we'd be nuts to do it regardless of Thursday's result. But, if those negotiating can show the world how an independent Britain is a stronger then I think more than very slightly over half would be in favour of going. 

 

We've voted that we want to leave, but we need to agree on the how part before we actually jump. Certainly no way should article  50 be invoked until we have the best deal going....

Forgot to add, pro-leavers should be asking for this too. The vote was to leave the EU, not the single market. But if we stay in the single market trade rules and freedom of movement still apply. Some leavers are happy with that (out of Brussels control, no EU fees etc) - this is the much talked about Norway model and does appear to work for them. However if immigration was your beef with the EU which lets just be honest it was for very many or it wouldn't have kept coming up in debates this is not going to be acceptable. 

So no matter how you voted we ought to be demanding a vote on whatever deal is thrashed out, because it probably won't be what you thought you were voting for last week.

[RCbutcher]

No way it's done that's it. Anything else would be a finger to democracy. Riots will happen. 

 

I just watched a youtube short it's called "brexit" definitely watch it I'm astonished by alot of it. We're definitely better off out.

 

Already Merkel has said she hopes we can be a special partner country. So we will have ties still just not the bs that comes with it. 

 

Go watch that brexit it's tv show quality full of facts only why the hell it's not on the bbc is weird. 

 

It outlines why free trade has hurt us but benefited them, they protect the corps who lobby them every week so no new competition  can rise up. 

 

10.000 euro mps we've never heard of or voted for get a higher wage than David Cameron does. 

 

The eu only gives money to protects to secure support for the next take over bid. 

 

That's that we have voted out they can't stop it now. 

 

72% turnout is the highest turnout for ages, so this vote represents the people. 

 

Ukip election was a whisker and they wasn't offerd any helping favours to try again. Because that would be wrong. 

 

[RCbutcher]

Article 49 means we could rejoin the eu at anytime it would be a process but we could still rejoin.  Or our kids could when they've grown up. 

 

So let's just give our own country a try atleast we can pull it together for sure. Shouldn't be any doubt

 

 

Oh yeah that bank supposed to be moving 2000 jobs to Dublin and frankfurt is poppycock. 

 

Yes we've dropped down begins France in biggest economy but I bet we move back up once we've figured it all out. Then further who knows. Without all the eu laws we could get 3rd largest economy. 

 

There's like 200 laws on tooth brushes. 

90 laws of pillow cases.

 

It's all in that brexit on youtube.

 

I guess that video clears up the brexit Google search because it's had millions of views last few days. 

[dazp1976]

47 minutes ago, RCbutcher said:

No way it's done that's it. Anything else would be a finger to democracy. Riots will happen. 

 

I just watched a youtube short it's called "brexit" definitely watch it I'm astonished by alot of it. We're definitely better off out.

 

Already Merkel has said she hopes we can be a special partner country. So we will have ties still just not the bs that comes with it. 

 

Go watch that brexit it's tv show quality full of facts only why the hell it's not on the bbc is weird. 

 

It outlines why free trade has hurt us but benefited them, they protect the corps who lobby them every week so no new competition  can rise up. 

 

10.000 euro mps we've never heard of or voted for get a higher wage than David Cameron does. 

 

The eu only gives money to protects to secure support for the next take over bid. 

 

That's that we have voted out they can't stop it now. 

 

72% turnout is the highest turnout for ages, so this vote represents the people. 

 

Ukip election was a whisker and they wasn't offerd any helping favours to try again. Because that would be wrong. 

 

BBC have ties with the government and broadcast only the stuff they want you to hear.

I heard about the take overs, the destruction of any competition that affects the money spinners, the mp's wages, the protection for large corps, loopholes to undercut British workers wages using immigrants, blocked when trying to deport criminals (which their laws said we could hmmm).

When we initially joined in the 70's the first thing they did was destroy the mining and the fishing industry because it was too much competition for the other EU member states industries.

They were paying our farmers peanuts to do nothing because the competition would have affected France's.

They gave grants to some of our largest employers to set up shop over there to support jobs in the other member states at the cost of ours. Basically we were asset stripped.

A lot of stealth s**t has been happening which fueled my decision.

[Si Coe]

You honestly think our MPs and perhaps more importantly all our bureaucrats (we call them Civil Servants) are any less corrupt? You really believe big businesses don't bend our government will to suit their needs? Hell BAe System can wrap the US government round its finger let alone ours. 

What is needed is serious amounts of government reform. That won't happen in the EU, so it's true in that respect better out, but it also won't happen out of the EU unless we demand it. Right now all that's been said is we want out - handling that are MPs who were overwhelmingly in favour of staying in, all those unelected civil servants and oh what a surprise big business. I don't think you'll like their plan at all, but since you don't want any further voting that's just tough. If they take the Norway model which is what most in power are in favour of we'll still be bound by those silly rules, and that free movement. Do you not want a saying in that?

 

Forget the BBC, or UKIP sponsored viral films (who do you think made it?) and try reading what the US press or the Aussies think of this. It's a very different view from either side here.

[dazp1976]

There you go. Lord Maude.

"We initially signed/agreed to freedom of movement of LABOUR as in come if you have a job to go to when we joined the EU. Not ABSOLUTE freedom of movement which is now also being questioned throughout the rest of the member states".

 

This is where it's all gone to s**t and lead to many votes in protest. Why didn't the government just go and say "well hang about a minute, we never agreed to that" because the were a bunch of wimps that got walked all over, that's why. Shame on you.

[mond]

23 hours ago, dazp1976 said:

I'm sure I heard Corbyn say there IS a loophole were big corporation's can/could employ a migrant from a low paying eu country and pay them the equivalent here as they would get over there. This is where the issue of under cutting brits wages comes in. I need to look into this further.

 

And it's about time zero hour contracts were banned too.

You live in the country that invented the free market economy, investment banking and championed capitalism for 300 years. You really expect businesses to employ for inflated wages?  It pains me a little to say it but the UK to remain competitive globally cannot support artificially inflated wages. Every single time it's been tried it fails because somewhere else in the world those sectors are cheaper to run and produce good from them. You live in an imaginary world where any business will not employ the highest skilled workers for the cheapest cost. This won't change, it will never change.

 

What is worse is the economy just took an enormous blow, potentially unrecoverable. Wages will take a hit now, living standards will have to be readdressed. The false notion that we've somehow taken our country back, reclaim 12bn a year in EU payments will offset that is frankly laughable. The hit to the value of the pound, the fact the UK will not be invested in for at least two years, if ever again and what is worse well have to pay additional duties is the new reality. We're talking  hundreds of billions here, trillions over the coming years. For what? 12bn and some returning pensioners with a few million between them. Everyone else's pensions just took a dump so no worries there. You were all warned but ignored it. Now Scotland will leave and with it 20bn in oil revenue. To top it off, if we use the Swiss model we'll have to pay to trade with the EU anyway. Fantastic work guys.

 

The best we can hope for is a charitable deal from the EU which causes a second referendum or Parliament ignores the poll results, since its not legally binding anyway. They should make voting mandatory and politicians who lie liable. The entire leave campaign leaders will be looking at prison sentences right now.

[Alex97]

4 minutes ago, mond said:

You live in the country that invented the free market economy, investment banking and championed capitalism for 300 years. You really expect businesses to employ for inflated wages?  It pains me a little to say it but the UK to remain competitive globally cannot support artificially inflated wages. Every single time it's been tried it fails because somewhere else in the world those sectors are cheaper to run and produce good from them. You live in an imaginary world where any business will not employ the highest skilled workers for the cheapest cost. This won't change, it will never change.

 

What is worse is the economy just took an enormous blow, potentially unrecoverable. Wages will take a hit now, living standards will have to be readdressed. The false notion that we've somehow taken our country back, reclaim 12bn a year in EU payments will offset that is frankly laughable. The hit to the value of the pound, the fact the UK will not be invested in for at least two years, if ever again and what is worse well have to pay additional duties is the new reality. We're talking  hundreds of billions here, trillions over the coming years. For what? 12bn and some returning pensioners with a few million between them. Everyone else's pensions just took a dump so no worries there. You were all warned but ignored it. Now Scotland will leave and with it 20bn in oil revenue. To top it off, if we use the Swiss model we'll have to pay to trade with the EU anyway. Fantastic work guys.

 

The best we can hope for is a charitable deal from the EU which causes a second referendum or Parliament ignores the poll results, since its not legally binding anyway. They should make voting mandatory and politicians who lie liable. The entire leave campaign leaders will be looking at prison sentences right now.

You should have worked for the remain side  

 

There's are going to be uncertainty over the coming years but