m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 ok, so i've just done this... and i'm at a total loss at how to get them out. the best part is this engine has about 10 minutes use on it as it's plagued me since i was a n00b. some of the more observant (or bored) among you may have seen me twisting about it in various topics over the last few years. well i've finally just figured out what is actually the matter with it and then i've gone and done this. i hate my life. wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan_bench10 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Ouch new crankcase i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyneil Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The only answer is bench drill and use a bit that's about 2.2mm and drill the centre of the screws it will be hard but can be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 i don't have access to a bench drill and i suck with power tools. so what i'm probably gonna do is heat it up in the oven to get the bearing out and try getting the screws out by using a really thin chisel and hitting them really really hard to see if they come out with a screwdriver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyneil Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Completely strip it first you don't want to break anything else when you can replace the crank case what engine is it by the way can't tell from the picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 it's a picco 26 max. i hate it. when i first got into the hobby again i bought a brand spanking new revo, broke the engine in as per the uber cheese dvd that comes with it and then killed it. 15 seconds, no crap. smashed the engine to pieces i thought, being a noob. i bought this engine and could never get it working and thought it must just be too advanced for a n00b and got shelved. i've got it out a few times to no avail thinking it was a tuning issue. then i got it out and sealed it, no joy. buggering my tm 523 has brought it out again and i've finally realised that it actually came with a dodgy front bearing and should have been covered by warranty if i hadn't automatically thought i was at fault. just when i thought i was gonna buy a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andythecrane Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I would go with the new crankcase option. Unless it is very expensive. Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk for Android......Now with Scottish language translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1981robbo Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Can you not try supergluing something very thin, like a match head to the screws and try to unwind them. I've done this before and unless those screws are bent or locktited, I don't think they'll be very tight. I found they actually unscrewed very easily. I also have a tool called a gedore easy-out, its a reverse thread tapered bit, you drill a very small pilot hole, then as you drill in the tool the reverse thread tightens and pulls the damaged screw out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyneil Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Quick google for the crank case got this https://www.nitrohouse.com/mobile/product.asp?itemid=8754 but a lot cheaper to get those screws and bearing out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirusDviruS Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Screws are steel, crank case is alloy. They will expand at different rates when heated. Any thread lock will also fail under the heat. If it was mine I'd fully strip it, use a gas soldering iron with a blow torch attachment (or a small blowtorch) to heat the corners with the screws in and then try to unwind them with a pick. I've successfully done this on a supercharged Honda civic ep3 cylinder head (aftermarket intake manifold bolts snapped) in situ. The problem with drilling is again the bolts are much harder then the surrounding alloy. Only attempt drilling with a pillar drill as Neil said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 If you do not have the tools to confidently drill them, then I suggest taking it somewhere that will do it for you. If you have a bash yourself you may well make the situation irrepairable. If it is "do or die" and you will buy a new case if it all goes wrong, then get the engine gripped firmly in a vice or with G clamps etc., heat will help. If drilling then use a center punch and always put the drill bit in the chuck as far as possible to minimise drill wander....left handed drill bits and easy-outs are made for getting broken threads out. You could try gluing something on there..and the chisel/pick...but I think it will be tight all the way....looks like the thread has sealant in there....heat will help. Bit late I suppose but when using sealer you only need a tiny amount and try not to get it on the threads of screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaZilla Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Have any JB weld? 2 part epoxy with similar properties to steel, very strong, pretty cheap to buy. http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a676a9763 I'd JB weld a Sacrificial Allen key to the screw. I'd Heat up the screw areas with a blowtorch or turbo lighter to de-activate any locktite in there. Clean both the exposed screw and allen key with a little nitro cleaner to provide ideal Surfaces. Put the Engine down on a table, Then start building up a little stack of cards or paper or whatever flat thin things I have lying around, To place the allen key on to hold it level and straight with the screw head, To the point where you can just put the allen key down, and push the end against the screw and it just stays there, lined up and stable. Or Stand the engine so the screw face is facing up. then make a little Scaffold out of Lego or something to hold the allen key upright and aligned with the screw, Less chance of any JBweld being pulled by gravity into the threads that way. Then Mix the 2 part epoxy, Little dab on the screw head and end of the allen key or whichever way you see fit to get enough JBweld on the mating surfaces For a strong connection without risking getting any going into the thread of the screw. Then bringing the Allen key and screw together with the Allen key held perfectly by the stack-O-Stuff and leave it for 24 hours then have a go at unscrewing Edited February 17, 2013 by GorillaZilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich8 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I also have a tool called a gedore easy-out, its a reverse thread tapered bit, you drill a very small pilot hole, then as you drill in the tool the reverse thread tightens and pulls the damaged screw out. Those things are fantastic. Cheapest and easiest option by far. Something like this http://www.screwfix.com/p/screw-extractor-set/18643?kpid=18643?cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CJzAxf-fvbUCFYbHtAodb2oAPg (although I don't know for certain if the smallest in that set will be small enough for what you want - should be). They sell them in halfords too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 ok, i've thought about it and decided that it really is do or die with this engine. i've put far too much money into it and got nowhere with it (new carb, new seals, new cooling head button) and now i'm only trying to get these screws out so i can replace the front bearing and hope it grafts. don't get me wrong, the piston and the sleeve will be coated in oil and put away either for my mates picco or if i buy one in future and the carbs kept as spares. the crankcase is fair game. how about using a dremel with a fine cutting disc to try and make a notch in the top of the screw as neatly as possible? if i go in the directions shown in the picture then am i right in thinking that the case should still seal up? i don't mind being a bit more liberal with the sealant (avoiding the screw holes of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andythecrane Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I thunk the dremmil idea is a bad one. A momentary loss of patience and it is scrap, or a hole in a finger Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk for Android......Now with Scottish language translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 i dunno. the more i think about it, the more i like the idea. as long as i don't mess up where i've indicated then the engine should still seal. i've got some diamond cutting disc things that are really narrow. i'm tempted to give this a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andythecrane Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Ah what the heck...... Go for it........ Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk for Android......Now with Scottish language translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I think the dremel idea is sound..but the screw is too small...you might be lucky. I will never say never to that...yes you will have to dig into that surface of the case but sealing it should not be a problem...just whether you can get a good enough cut on the remnants of the screw to get a good puchase on it. Is this a pull/roto start engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andythecrane Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I have now looked at the offending screws on the computer rather than with the phone, and i would go for it with the dremmil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippler Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Where are u based? If you bring it to me I'll try get them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0th Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 it's a pull and it's dead. turns out my mate has a bench drill, i got the first one out with no fuss at all but the surface of the other screw mustn't have been level. i slipped off a tiny bit and the drill just chewed through the soft aluminium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum96 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Easy out kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirusDviruS Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Screws are steel, crank case is alloy. They will expand at different rates when heated. Any thread lock will also fail under the heat. If it was mine I'd fully strip it, use a gas soldering iron with a blow torch attachment (or a small blowtorch) to heat the corners with the screws in and then try to unwind them with a pick Nothing to lose by trying that first. No special tools, no cost, no risk. Too late now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Rex X Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Should have tried getting it out from the other side doesnt matter damaging that surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Personally...I'd now be holding the backplate on with 3 screws...with a bodged up third fixing. Epoxy in a piece of threaded bar ( bolt with the head cut off) and hold the backplate on with a nut. The other 3 would be bolts as normal. Either that or get it welded up, drilled and re-tapped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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