Should I let him win?

[XV Pilot]

Here's one for the armchair psychologists out there: Should I let my mate win a race? And if so, how?

 

Firstly, a bit of background. We have both been into RC for a long time - over half a century between us. Both started with planes and moved to cars, both started racing at the same club at the same time, we are on the same shift rotation so we get to attend the same number of race meets, etc. On paper then we should have comparable levels of practice and skill.

 

Our cars too are comparable if not identical. Same make, same model, built to the same spec for the same class. We even use the same brand of batteries  and chargers. There are minor differences in radio gear - he prefers Flysky, I prefer Spektrum - but both perform reliably so neither of us are prone to glitches that would cause a performance difference.

 

Nonetheless, over this year's racing season, while the results have been close, I have beaten him in every event. I haven't won overall every time - far from it - but I have finished ahead of him. He has found this to be somewhat discouraging, to the point that on more than one occasion he has talked about quitting racing altogether.

 

Now I get on pretty well with the bloke - we work together, socialise together, etc. I don't want him to give up. And it isn't like he's a sore loser - he doesn't blame others for cheating, blame imaginary mechanical faults, whine about slow marshalls or anything like that. He does nonetheless criticise himself, sometimes quite harshly - it seems clear that he finds the situation frustrating.

 

So in the final race of this last race meet, I tried waiting for him on a corner that he crashed out on, so that we could continue what up until that point had been a close tussle for first place. He seemed to take this as an insult, muttering about a "pity pause". So I carried on, with the predictable outcome, and witnessed the anticipated self-recriminations afterwards, even though he managed a quite respectable 2nd place.

 

So then, what (if anything) should I do? I really feel that he needs a confidence boost, and I think a solid race victory should provide this. However any obvious attempts to hand him a race, or at least give him more of a fighting chance, are likely to be seen as an insult, or at the very least make it a hollow victory.

 

So I see my options as threefold:

 

1. Fake a mechanical failure and pull out of a race that he seems likely to do well in if I'm not in the track.

 

2. Do something silly with my setup, so my car is harder to drive and thus uniformly slower throughout the race.

 

3. Put it in the barriers a few times "accidentally" near our slowest marshall.

 

...Or of course I could do nothing.

 

 

So then, how do you think I should handle the situation? Over to you...

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by XV Pilot

[Rover Man]

Cant you turn your power down to say 90% then he will have a power advantage and you can still drive flat out but should bring him closer ???

[Smoothybb]

Tricky one. If you think it will help, then setup would make sense. Anything else he'll probably spot it, no matter how sneaky you try and be.

 

You might need to repeat at intervals.............

[Oh How Original]

It is a bit of a tricky one, because look at it this way.

You might go to all this trouble to find the perfect solution, execute it well and he might decide to quit anyway.

Unless you are very confident a victory or two would boost his confidence.

Although what happens after that when he's won a few but you go back to winning?

It might just be that he's grown a bit bored of doing the same thing for 25+ years.

Have you suggested he sit out for a season?

Maybe get a new car that will require ground up tinkering.

Something to recharge his own batteries.

It's not quite the same thing, but I get this way sometimes with bashing, just doing the same thing all the time, and when we have friendly races, nobody we bash with can touch me, and it honestly does just get to a point of being boring and I usually end up sending it skywards so the others can catch up to make it more exciting.

Just my own opinion, you might just want to have a word with him about it, rather than trying to fake him a victory?

If he finds out, I think that would do more damage than just having it out with him.

But, you know the guy, I don't, so I suppose you're a better judge of how he'd react.

[Fly In My Soup]

Reading to your thread reminded me a LOT of how my 9 yo approaches life at his age.

 

We bash together all the time...but he often gets frustrated if he loses a mock race with me ( or his mum! )

 

At first a did let him win a few of our mock races ( DIY oval circuit marked out with cones) which elated him, but ultimately this feeling was short lived...and did not teach him the approach....which is if you want to win, you must practice, practice, practice and put in the hard work to improve/evolve your skill set.

 

After adopting the 'tough' live stance around 6-7 months ago his attitude to winning and sportsmanship has improved ten fold.....if he doesn't win me now, he takes it in his stride....if it's a loss, it focuses him into tying harder in he next 'race' which ultimately.....has taught him a valuable life lesson.....people rarely make allowances for others and Molly coddling him into thinking his skill set is better than it actually is, will eventually set him up for a fall.

 

Just my 2c

 

In short, your a true friend for empathising with your buddy, although IMO he needs a bit of a "get a grip" approach......

 

The outcome of which would depend entirely on our buddy's personality

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Fly In My Soup

[MissT]

How annoyed/frustrated would you be if you crashed out or broke down? Faking that is much harder than faking a mistake.

[autobutcher]

I would leave it as is, simply he has to get good, if you fake a poor result and he even suspects it would just make things worse, even if it is done out of friendship it could come across as very condescending.  Maybe suggest some bash sessions that you could offer some tips. 

[Fly In My Soup]

Yeah totally agree with oho and autobutcher here.....offer him some variety in the hopes of reigniting the passion!

Edited December 10, 2017 by Fly In My Soup

[autobutcher]

If he has run out of talent and isn't enjoying it any more there is not a lot you can do sadly. 

[atom3624]

How well do you know him?

 

If it's just another person at the club who gets a bit vocal, then tough ... !!

If it's a 'mate', with whom you have a few drinks from time-to-time, then why don't you both discuss set-ups, settings and strategies.

 

If he's receptive, then you can discuss settings further, and practice out-of-race - up the ante.

If the reception's negative, then let him come to you.

 

Al.

[XV Pilot]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I have tried making the odd setup suggestion, but to be honest I think that might also come across as a bit condescending. After all, he has been in the hobby for a good long while too, so there is no reason why my setup ideas should be any better than his own.

 

I suppose that it is possible that he has just reached a performance plateau, but I can't see any reason why this should be the case. His vision and manual dexterity are better than mine, and I don't think it is a lack of passion for the sport that holds him back. If anything, perhaps there is a bit too much passion.

 

I have noticed that he sometimes seems to suffer from the "red mist". We are usually neck and neck until his first crash, at which point he starts trying harder and harder, getting more and more frustrated, and therefore crashing more, feeding the cycle and letting me disappear off into the distance. Not being at all learned in the field for psychology I am not sure how to help him address this, or even if it is my place to do so.

 

Recommending and organising extra practice/bashing sessions is a good idea. Due to our shifts at work, we often have to miss race meets, so we don't get anywhere near as much practice as those who race every week. Only downside is that if we both practice more, we might both get better, and the performance gap might remain. However if we are more competitive against the other folks who race at the club, perhaps beating them might take his mind off not beating me?

 

 

[Gaz!]

Yeah I too would suggest to ask him about his set-up, can it be tweaked to suit his driving style a little more?

 

i have to say though, if I cheated or was handed 1st place, it would feel a very hollow victory, whereas earning the win will be a lot more satisfying.

 

its a damned if you do and damned if you don’t, kind of situation, anyway hope all goes well and the main thing would be his friendship, much more valuable than racing toy cars in essence (not to offend with this comment but in the grand scheme of things, it’s all I could come up with)

[Fly In My Soup]

9 hours ago, big gaz said:

much more valuable than racing toy cars in essence

 

Careful Gaz, those carpet racers are a sensitive bunch.....

[Gavster29]

I was in a situation once where my dad and I used to go racing on a regular basis, based on performance through the season you would get assigned a group to race in, I ended up in the top group with the seasoned racers and came last whilst my dad was in the middle group and came first, I quickly got fed up and we both packed it in.

 

I guess I should have seen it as a compliment to run with the big boys but I was younger back then and saw it as failure and being in the bottom.

 

If he wants to improve he will carry on, maybe he just wants a break?  If he found out you were throwing the race for him he wouldn't appreciate it, he already indicated he thought you were taking pity on him with the corner slow down!

[Zannu]

Just had another idea that may work. It has sort of been suggested but may be worth a shot.

Rather than just suggesting a few setup tweaks see if he wants some more help getting performance out of the car. Spend a while out of racing time practicing and stting the car up with him. That way you are not losing time in your laps or faking anything, you are just helping him to do better, which would close the gap.

You may have to be careful how you do this, but if he keeps saying he is getting fed up about not doing so well and that is why he wants to quit the offer to help him set the car up and maybe tweak his drivign a bit so you can help get him even to your pace. Then you should reach a point where he won't need any help and is beating you or at least having very good fights and being even. Expecially if he gets the red mist a bit, then maybe suggesting that he is as fast as you, but crashes a bit more frequently and then tries too hard may even yeild some results.

Most of all rather than just helping, when he is saying he might quite or talking about how badly he is doing offer to help him then. If he does not want help then there is not so f you are not careful it may be the other way around soon, with him always beating you.

 

[autobutcher]

If he is not enjoying it it then maybe it's time to hang up the tx for a while, you have done more than enough and can't force him to carry on. Show him this thread and say 'this is what I have tried to do for you, if you want to carry on then we can both try and sort out your crappy spell, I will help you as you would help me. If not then cheer up or pack up' 

Blunt but sometimes it's the only way, as long as you are still digging it then it's all good.

[XV Pilot]

I think I have made some headway!

 

Rather than looking at the final race results like we usually do, we took a look at the laptimes themselves. My mate was most pleased when I pointed out that the fastest laps in the finals were all his - in some cases by a margin of several seconds.

 

There is thus no problem with his car setup as far as I can tell. In terms of fastest laps, nobody in the class can touch him. All he needs to work on is not crashing as often, and he'll be able to win on merit. Knowing this seems to have cheered him up considerably!

[Zannu]

3 minutes ago, XV Pilot said:

I think I have made some headway!

 

Rather than looking at the final race results like we usually do, we took a look at the laptimes themselves. My mate was most pleased when I pointed out that the fastest laps in the finals were all his - in some cases by a margin of several seconds.

 

There is thus no problem with his car setup as far as I can tell. In terms of fastest laps, nobody in the class can touch him. All he needs to work on is not crashing as often, and he'll be able to win on merit. Knowing this seems to have cheered him up considerably!

That sounds really good, and like you have made good progress. As usual with racing though, consitancy is key. If you can't do the same lap time after time without error, you will not win. To me it sounds like he almost needs to slow down a little bit, which in turn should mean he makes less mistakes.

I get the same thing when racing on my computer games. You can go really fast, but if you push just that bit too fast it all goes wrong and can't be saved from there. I need to be a bit more conservative and end up with better stage times, as I have had less accidents. Having said that it can be really hard to slow down that bit, and not push as hard as you can.

Hope it keeps getting better.