Carpmart Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) It seems a really interesting battery development with predictions of up to 5x the power from the same size pack as the current Lithium Polymer cells we use. Imagine an electric Baja running for nearly an hour on batteries similar to those we currently use! Let's face it we struggle to get 15 mins runtimes from them presently... Thoughts? Edited October 28, 2016 by Carpmart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I'm sure we've all plenty of thoughts!! Are there any development comparative videos, specifically applied to R/C or even 1:1? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) There are so many competing versions of the LiS battery under development at the moment. The graphene lithium sulpher version looks particularliy promising. The technology needs to mature a bit yet and some common srandard needs to evolve as well. Very promising for the not too distant future though. John Edited October 28, 2016 by johninderby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV Pilot Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I haven't read much about them, but I'm guessing with increased energy density comes increased volatility? Does this mean the risk of LiPo fires will be replaced with the risk of LiS detonations? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazp1976 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Carpmart said: It seems a really interesting battery development with predictions of up to 5x the power from the same size pack as the current Lithium Polymer cells we use. Imagine an electric Baja running for nearly an hour on batteries similar to those we currently use! Let's face it we struggle to get 15 mins runtimes from them presently... Thoughts? I predict that "5x the power" means 5x higher discharge C rate than a lipo. Effevtively run times wouldn't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The big difference is the energy density. Should be able to have a 6s battery in a 2s sized package. Also lightweight. However the discharge and charging potentential requires a voltage regulator built in to prevent things getting out of hand. Still work to be done on the design I think. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpowell911 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 What does a Tesla use for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 10 minutes ago, Guns said: What does a Tesla use for example? Lithium Ion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Reading tests of the latest NSX, all agree it's a fantastic piece of kit, BUT, it's too heavy / bulky. A lot of this will be the batteries, so this new technology will help reduce the amount of batteries / weight / volume required. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh How Original Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I like the idea behind it... I like the fact even with LiPos readily available, people are still striving to produce something even better, not only for our hobby, but others too. Personally, I can't see it having too much of a useful application for that many people. I'd imagine aero stuff will only be the ones to really benefit, for those who race quads or do extreme 3D with helis and planes, to increase run times by saving weight. For people with surface stuff though, is a 100g (purely an example) weight saving really going to change run times at all? I know if the size is drastically dropped, that might also pose an advantage, but again, that should mainly really be for aero stuff... If you're running a big brushless vehicle, you've always got enough room for your cells. I don't mean to be negative, but I imagine they will cost a lot more than your standard LiPo and for really, not very much gain? I might be wrong, or understanding it wrong, but personally speaking I think they should be attempting to pack bigger mAh into smaller packages for longer run times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Perhaps a 50,000mah 6s battery perhaps. Second mortgage to buy one though??? They have "non-linerar discharge" characteristics which means then can release a lot of energy quickly so should have more punch than a LiPo. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Increased runtime with a lower pack weight and size would improve my 1/5th brushless bashing and general bonhomie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 hours ago, johninderby said: Perhaps a 50,000mah 6s battery perhaps. Second mortgage to buy one though??? They have "non-linerar discharge" characteristics which means then can release a lot of energy quickly so should have more punch than a LiPo. John Are they saying it 'flat-lines' then starts to trail off? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 As the design calls for a built in voltage regulator would expect it to hold a voltage then suddenly drop off. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazp1976 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 10 hours ago, johninderby said: The big difference is the energy density. Should be able to have a 6s battery in a 2s sized package. Also lightweight. However the discharge and charging potentential requires a voltage regulator built in to prevent things getting out of hand. Still work to be done on the design I think. John Wouldn't mind a battery that lasted more than 12 mins! Where some people get the 35-45 min running figures is beyond me. I'm 6s low kv as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMaxxDave Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'm getting 30-40mins out of a NiMH..... may be because I use mine slowly, and may have decreased times if I actually used it like I'm meant to.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpmart Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 I understand what you're say TMaxxDave, I get hours out of a LiPo in both my Crawler and to power my TX, but that's missing the context... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMaxxDave Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yeah it was a little, it will be interesting to see how this tech develops into a main stream techSent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) sulphar problem lays with its 5x more power. and what you dont know about whats happening in the battery under use and charge. so as with the chemical reaction and exchange, the problem with salt batterys is the charging and use, as the battery is used the chemical reaction causes an adverse effect. its breaks down the medium and this inturn means your capacity drops and the preformance of the battery. what they have done is used nanotech to create more surface area by the means of mimicing the human gut, more so the very fine structure of short tube like structures. as the medium breaks down it is soaked up by the electrolite and this becomes saturated, but the new nanotech adds these raised hills and peaks allowing for the medium to be captured and reused more efficently . so a normal battery like lithium would be a ======== sandwich where there is a lower layer and an upper layer with the eletcrolite in the middle allowing the exchange of electrons. the new slat sulphar batterys are in a /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ form with an upper plate these peaks capture broken off particals and hold them so they can be reused and not just float around in the electrolite going to waste. more surface area means better capacity and a more efficent exchange in eletrons across the cathode and anodes resulting in a better preforming battery. this is all good BUT the downside is they will not have the same charge-discharge ratio as a normal lithium cell. they will have a lower charge amount ie : instead of like 5000 charges it would be something like 2500 charges. not very ideal for RC where your constantly charging and discharging the cells under high load then under a high recharge ampage Edited October 30, 2016 by Tamiyacowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpmart Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Hi Tamiya I've read the above technical information too. Whilst interesting, the topic was posted as I was seeking people's views on the deployment of this technology Rather than the tech itself.... think of the step change that LiPo created over NiMh, will this be a step change from LiPo to LiS? Should be.....? I guess the deployment and packaging of the tech will take some time to get correct! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 The technology is too immature at the moment. It's potential rather than usable tech but in a few years we'll see something suitable for RC use. Just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I think the deployment depends on charge stability, duration (5x mentioned), price and ... SAFETY. There'll be a lot of manual handling, not the case in 1:1 cars. The other important thing is how many recharges before its no longer of use and also what possible 'memory' characteristics Li-Sulphur batteries may have. Interesting. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh How Original Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 As stated before, I love the idea of people still trying to develope batteries, even in the age of LiPos, which lets face it, are all but perfect for most of us. But if they can create something to give bigger mAh, over bigger punch, in the same size package, I think that would be more worthwhile. Having more power, will just surely mean they discharge quicker than the equal sized LiPo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 for your iphone and likes these batterys could be the godsend , the longer capacity means your not charging so often and in a small package form would be great for small tech. take the new phone for example that kept catching fire even when fitted with a new safer battery. safety is key here and i think we will see this technology in small devices first, then have it migrate to larger devices when the technology has been ironed out . i for one would love to see a better battery for RC hobbyists and the RC world would be the place to test these battery to destruction as we can have huge current draw and heavy recharge needs all the time as the RC hobby moves forwards with new tech to. brushless motors only became popular when lipos hit the market and could feed those motors with pure untainted power. give it a few years and me may well see these new cells working the way into our hobby world. but i do think they will be more aimed at smaller tech devices first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mond Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Don't forget there is a huge market for both full size cars and things like satellites and space craft, where light weight ultra reliable batteries are in demand. I imagine in the next 10-15 years batteries and electric motors will see more advancement than in the last 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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