EU referendum

[Leeb]

I feel overwhelmed by such a massive decision. This really is a history making vote and I genuinely don't know which way i'll go. To be honest i've been more towards leave than stay and the debate on telly tonight hasn't helped. 

[turok007]

48 minutes ago, Leeb said:

I feel overwhelmed by such a massive decision. This really is a history making vote and I genuinely don't know which way i'll go. To be honest i've been more towards leave than stay and the debate on telly tonight hasn't helped. 

well if we do leave  Scotland says they will do a deal to stay.  and they want a wall built.  Also London wants to stay.  so are they going to build a wall.  lol

[Sharkfat78]

The thing is if we stay in we'll be paying a stupid amount of money to put our country in the hands of non elected bureaucrats who we cannot control, vote out or hold accountable for any decisions they make. We'll have laws telling us what we CAN do, rather than laws in place to stop us doing certain things. Personally I don't want people in control of my country who I haven't voted in and can't vote out.

We're the 5th largest economy in the world, I'm sure we'll be fine on our own!

[Si Coe]

The problem is that if we leave we'll be putting our entire country's legal and constitutional in the hands of some very dubious people. They may technically be elected but it would be a grave mistake to think that the big names in the Leave campaign have anyone's interests but their own at heart. 

 

I'm voting Remain. I don't believe in the EU that much, I'm not sure we should stay in the EU, but I trust the EU's bureaucrats (who misguided they may be try to act in Europes interest) more than I trust Johnson and Gove.

 

Therein lies the problem - this matter has been reduced to Yes/No which is frankly absurd. The details of how we go (or stay for that matter) make a massive difference to whether its a good idea and thats all been left to conjecture.

 

Lets take trade with the EU post Brexit as an example. The Leave campaign seems fairly sure we'll be able to broker a decent trade deal on the basis that they need us as much as we need them, and to some extent that is logical. But there are serious worries that if we vote to leave others might follow so there is also an incentive for the EU to impose pretty harsh terms to discourage others. Its hardly in their interests for people to see Britain doing better outside the EU.

I suspect that when it comes to setting the terms for us leaving, we the public will get screwed over while the political elite will get whatever they seek out of this. Voting Leave should indeed be a chance to rebuild this country - but looking at who currently holds the building contract I'm not sure I want them to!

[turok007]

When we get the final result  i don't think anybody with and sense is going to start jumping up and down cheering.  As a lot of bad things can happen if we join or not.

 

[NOFX]

I'm in. Angelic merkin has publicly said that the rest of Europe will close trade borders with the uk if we leave!  Plus the tories have been reigned in by the EU. If the tories get their way, no NHS, pensions people have paid into all their lives will disappear, fox hunting will come back, it'll be pleb hunting by Xmas.  The list goes on.  :/

[Sharkfat78]

Yeah the bureaucrats will act in the EU's interests, not the UK's. And when they decide to shaft us for the privilege there is nothing we can do about it. At least with the UK government we can vote them out.

The first and second world war soldiers will be turning in their graves. If we stay in the EU at least the fact they all died for nothing won't be on my conscience 

[turok007]

pensions are in the loo already  the EU has already said they want the NHS gone also our railways have been talked about.  As for fox hunting the Uk goverment has been talking about it for a while now. But if we stay in they can blame the EU for bringing it back.  lol

 

France has said that if we vote out  they will pack ships with immigrants and send them our way. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by turok007

[mond]

No, the EU hasn't said it wants the NHS gone. It's said if there is private healthcare, it needs to be opened up for competition. For that you can squarely blame the Tories.

 

Also since the railways are now run as a franchise, the same idea applies. If they were publicly owned and run, it wouldn't be the case. For that you can blame New Labour. I actually agree that there is an issue here. I pay £4800 a year in train fares so anything that helps reduce that is good.

 

We cannot place problems we created on the EU. That would just be putting our heads in the sand.

[ibo]

OUT

 

 

 

[Si Coe]

Actually 1st and 2nd World War soldiers would likely be pleased that there has been peace across Europe since 1945, and indeed right now its actually quite tricky to start a war with a European neighbour. Not really due to the EU but still a big thing......

[Wirralnitronoob]

out out out out out

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[mond]

3 hours ago, Si Coe said:

Actually 1st and 2nd World War soldiers would likely be pleased that there has been peace across Europe since 1945, and indeed right now its actually quite tricky to start a war with a European neighbour. Not really due to the EU but still a big thing......

 

Both my grandfathers and one of my grand mothers fought and were quite pro-European. They'd probably quite upset that people like Farage and the populist far rights views are legitimised again. After all, they chose to fight the far right 76 years ago.

[Alex97]

8 hours ago, mond said:

 

Both my grandfathers and one of my grand mothers fought and were quite pro-European. They'd probably quite upset that people like Farage and the populist far rights views are legitimised again. After all, they chose to fight the far right 76 years ago.

Far right views!!! What ever your political views (left or right) are it has nothing to do with leaving or staying in the EU. The PM would be classed are the right wing party and he wants to stay, Labor the party that is classed as the left wing party wants to stay. Why would you bring WW2 into this as leaving the EU has nothing to do with it? From reading your comments above I can tell that you're extremely left winged which can be just as dangerous as being extremely right winged. 

[turok007]

How far to the left is jeremy corbyn  as he knows the EU has issues but he said we can change that.  lol  We cannot change the EU  even though will are one of the top countries paying into it.  If we want something changed then everyone else will want it. But it is funny how France can fish just off of our coast line but we can't.  So if the UK move right into the middle of the EU we might get something.  lol

[Carpmart]

Anyone thinking out is the correct way to vote wants certifying.... Come on people, apply logic, how on earth can out provide better outcomes for our future......we must vote

 

RemaIN

[mayzie12]

The way i see it is (as a Scot) it seems similar to our independance referendum. Without a doubt there are Pros and Cons either way...

 

BUT as the same with our referendum, i have seen NO plan on what will happen if we leave. Nobody has a clue. If someone came to me with a decent plan on what would happen if we left, i may vote that way. But the fact is we do not have a single clue. So i shall vote to stay in until i see some good evidence that will make the country better if we leave.

We can always have another vote in 5/10 years down the line

[turok007]

27 minutes ago, Carpmart said:

Anyone thinking out is the correct way to vote wants certifying.... Come on people, apply logic, how on earth can out provide better outcomes for our future......we must vote

 

RemaIN

You might be right about staying in.   But when our PM tried to do some basic deals he was told to get lost 

[turok007]

15 minutes ago, mayzie12 said:

The way i see it is (as a Scot) it seems similar to our independance referendum. Without a doubt there are Pros and Cons either way...

 

BUT as the same with our referendum, i have seen NO plan on what will happen if we leave. Nobody has a clue. If someone came to me with a decent plan on what would happen if we left, i may vote that way. But the fact is we do not have a single clue. So i shall vote to stay in until i see some good evidence that will make the country better if we leave.

We can always have another vote in 5/10 years down the line

If we vote out then you will get another vote to join.  lol

[turok007]

From 8 min's to 10.10 min's   

 

 

[Carpmart]

8 hours ago, turok007 said:

If we vote out then you will get another vote to join.  lol

 

Im afraid it doesn't work like that!  

[mond]

11 hours ago, Alex97 said:

Far right views!!! What ever your political views (left or right) are it has nothing to do with leaving or staying in the EU. The PM would be classed are the right wing party and he wants to stay, Labor the party that is classed as the left wing party wants to stay. Why would you bring WW2 into this as leaving the EU has nothing to do with it? From reading your comments above I can tell that you're extremely left winged which can be just as dangerous as being extremely right winged. 

Sorry but you don't understand what is left or right if you take my comments as far left.

 

My political view point is centre right. Id like to be more left in some ideals but centre right is generally where I fall. Someone else brought up the war. Having a single  market with a centralised system for trade law is a centre right thing. 

 

And yeah, your views do. The far right and far left do not have the same outlook as the more centrist views on things like economics. This is the very point - if you're voting out purely based on immigration and ignoring the economic benefits you are far Right whether you like that or not. The far left would also vote out but on different principles. 

 

This is the problem with this referendum - a lack of understanding of cause and effect.

Edited June 23, 2016 by mond

[mond]

8 hours ago, turok007 said:

You might be right about staying in.   But when our PM tried to do some basic deals he was told to get lost 

He got some concessions on the 4 year benefit deal. But then it was with typically British arrogance he thought he could wade in and change things at the last minute. He picked the wrong moment and the wrong topics. But the vote shouldn't be about him.

[ostewart]

Just on a side note, I'm voting in, I have benefited from the EU and most people here probably have. Saying about immigration and wanting to be part of the free market makes no sense as to be part of the free market we have to allow free movement of people across Europe.

 

Also I don't trust the government that we have currently to invest in the NHS, arts, science, education with the "extra money"

 

But this referendum holds no legal obligation, meaning even if leave wins, doesn't mean we will leave. It would be debated, and our ELECTED officials will decide what is best for the people, as they are elected by us to represent us.

[Bigjimknickers]

Just voted.

 

 

OUT !!

 

why? After watching all the debates, reading all the arguments, that's my choice!