Fat Freddy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, zlab said: Last week rear left tyre on my carnage decided to puncture and launched the foam insert into the atmosphere... That was the moment of happines, the moment i was waiting for so long...to finally replace those cheap wheels... Well, i did some online shoping...after few glasses of wine...at that moment it seemed like a reasonable choice. In the morning i realized that i bought wheels and tyres that cost 75% of the initial price of the Carnage brushed, that i bought under similar conditions... (facepalm) Well, today when i got them i was shocked. They are bigger, wider and much stronger compared to stock ones. Oh and they are BELTED Hi there, Forgive me if I’m patronising you and sound negative here but... (And please, anyone else who thinks I’m talking crap, please pitch in, I’m no expert) These are intended for MUCH more powerful cars than the carnage and are going to cause you a few problems. The first being gearing. The extra diameter is going to raise your gearing. This will lower your acceleration and increase your top speed. Not necessarily a bad thing, less wheelspin when pulling away and who doesn’t want extra speed? But this will put extra strain on your motor and in turn your Esc. Easy fix... a smaller pinion. Drop a couple of teeth on your pinion (I’d guess) and you’ll return the gear ratio to something like the original. This presents you with a new problem as the standard FTX spur gear is a (relatively) unusual pitch, and the choice of compatible pinions is limited. The next problem you may encounter is weight. I’d bet they weigh considerably more than the standard wheels? This will also put extra strain on your motor, as well as your drivetrain, which is likely to result in a damaged spur gear. Possibly worse. (God I’m being a killjoy here aren’t I? Sorry) I bought a hardened steel spur gear from @daveyboi73 and that would negate a lot of these problems. It is hard as nails (no way a brushed motor will strip it), widens your choice of pinion size and is way easier to maintain. An extra bonus is when set up right, it’s much quieter too. Best add on I bought for mine hands down. Anyway, sorry but I haven’t finished yet. Another likely problem could be steering. That extra weight and extra wide footprint is likely to slow your steering a bit, especially if you still have the stock servo which is a bit weak. And then there is clearance. I don’t know how the offset compares when turned fully left or right I’d also bet they’ll foul the body shell?? (Would be interested to see em fitted) All that aside, they do look cool as **** 😄👍 Good luck with em Fred ps, himoto do a few sets of wheels VERY similar sized to the ftx stock ones. Alas, similar quality but also similarly priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1aw1ess Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 proper killjoy but all very valid points 😂 Also agree with the hardened steel spur gear upgrade, £20 seemed like a lot of money initially but after even trying the £10 hardened acetal one which stripped on my 2nd battery i took the hit and went for it, been absolutely perfect and paid for itself 10 times over already as i was going through those cheap plastic ones at a rate of knots plus the time it took to change them, that and the carbon top plate have made the car perfectly usable on a daily basis without having to fix something after every run. Cool to see some pics with the new tires on 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Fat Freddy said: This presents you with a new problem as the standard FTX spur gear is a (relatively) unusual pitch, and the choice of compatible pinions is limited. It’s not that unusual. And you just buy a pinion set online and have plenty of choice then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Freddy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, 300bhp/ton said: It’s not that unusual. And you just buy a pinion set online and have plenty of choice then. Oh? Ok, well I DID say “relatively” but I struggled. Mine started life as a vantage and I faced some of the issues I mentioned above when I swapped the wheels to larger Carnage wheels. The ftx spur/pinion are mod 0.6 pitch (whatever that means lol) My gearing problem was easy to solve. Swap the vantage 23t pinion for a carnage 17t. Simple. (Note:- that’s a difference of 6 teeth to allow for a similar wheel size difference that @zlab faces. But @zlab would, I think, need to go smaller than 17t and maybe I looked in the wrong places but the smallest I could find was a 16t. I’m not sure dropping 1 tooth would be enough.... but as I said, I’m no expert. And I guess it’d be worth spending £3 odd on a 16t pinion to find out. Or better still 13t (??), if you know where to find em? It’d be cheaper but I’m pretty sure those big heavy wheels will eat plastic spur gears for breakfast whereas the steel spur gear will eat small children for breakfast 😂 (without burping). +1 @F1aw1ess on the carbon top plate. Another little tip on carbon upgrades (not that anyone asked) is to get the carbon fibre shock towers but NOT the “pro” ones. They have lots of cut outs which look cool but make them easier to snap. The standard carbon towers are cut from a solid sheet, cost less and are stronger (although maybe a gram or two heavier). Edited December 17, 2019 by Fat Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Freddy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 @300bhp/ton Just to prove myself wrong....... Modelsport do a 12t mod 0.6 pinion for £3.65. Goes to show, there’s a lot of rubbish spouted on forums eh? I still reckon a steel spur is the way to go, fit and forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Lots of pinion gears on eBay. Can buy singular or packs. This seller does four different packs from 13 thru to 33 tooth in Mod 0.6 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F133042700354 Mod or is a metric spacing whereas dp is imperial. Lots of different sizes in both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Fat Freddy said: I still reckon a steel spur is the way to go, fit and forget. Maybe. Although the steel spurs looks pricey unless you are lucky. I’m still running the stock plastic one. It is my second one I admit. But the first only stripped due to a motor screw coming loose and the motor moving. Edited December 17, 2019 by 300bhp/ton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I know know, a lot of problems will come with these tyres... Diameter is not a problem, stock ones are 115mm and these prolines are 124mm so i will puz 16T pinion in and keep the ratio close to the original one. I can still go to 15T later. Spur is going in the acetal one, if it strips i will buy hardened one. Width is compensated with a little more offset and some small cuttings into the body. About the steering... i allready have a 12kg servo in there. I have the parts for the servo saver conversion to get rid the stock servo saver. Will post pictures when done. The only thing i didn't plan is the weight of the tyres. I couldnt resist on buying the belted version, but this was a misstake. Should go with the regular ones, they would work just fine. I know, i know... I am afraid that the CVDs and rear axles will break often because of all that additional unsprung weight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Freddy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 hours ago, zlab said: I know know, a lot of problems will come with these tyres... Diameter is not a problem, stock ones are 115mm and these prolines are 124mm so i will puz 16T pinion in and keep the ratio close to the original one. I can still go to 15T later. Spur is going in the acetal one, if it strips i will buy hardened one. Width is compensated with a little more offset and some small cuttings into the body. About the steering... i allready have a 12kg servo in there. I have the parts for the servo saver conversion to get rid the stock servo saver. Will post pictures when done. The only thing i didn't plan is the weight of the tyres. I couldnt resist on buying the belted version, but this was a misstake. Should go with the regular ones, they would work just fine. I know, i know... I am afraid that the CVDs and rear axles will break often because of all that additional unsprung weight... Hehe, repairing these things is half the fun. And those tyres look AWESOME!!✊ Looking forward to those pics. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 As mentioned before i wanted to get rid of that stupid original servo saver as it is so porly designed, that it should never see the production... One problem is that the seat for the e-clip doesn't have enough material around it...and that plastic gets chewed pretty quick. Another thing that i don't understand is, why is there no bushing on the top, beside that the hole is way too big for the post. A lot of freeplay on the steering comes from there... and this is my first step in the project of making steering better. You can see on the pictures what i have done. It eliminated 60-70% of freeplay on the steering... I took the steering lever from the left (one you get in the bag with the new servo saver) and top part of the old servo saver. That part i drilled with the 10,2mm drill so that it is a tight fit on the other part, grind it a bit and put on upside down. I think it is clear from the pictures. I glued it with 2 component epoxi glue and it is strong as it would be from one piece... I installed bearings instead of original bushings and that is it (4 in total for both sides). Very simple. I bought and mounted the direct servo saver and it works with no free play on that part of the steering! The only problem i have is, that i bought a servo saver that is way to soft... but no problem, will order a new one, stiffer. In the meanwhile i will take chances and drive without servo saver... What is in plan for future? -Modifiing and mounting od alu ackermann (will put bushings in there) -eliminating freeplay in balljoints (new original ones or something better) -carbon fibre top plate (waiting for delivery) -figuring out what to do with the front CVDs and rear axles - they are way out of tolerance on the bearing seat, that is why all wheels have some freeplay on the axles. (i am thinking of putting some to the CNC machining and make them with better tolerances and from proper material) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Oh, and i test fitted the tyres. Only a test as i am waiting for the delivery of the ALU hexes. Gave it a short and slow drive on the driveway and everything looks OK. They look great and the steering works great! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300bhp/ton Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Looks awesome!!! Although I quite like how the stock tyres go. Quite well on a lot of different surfaces. As for the steering, yes there is some slop in there. I found moving the locations of the links help with a lot more steering and a stout servo. The stock chassis allows a huge amount of flex though. The attached image shows I set the steering up. Here is a vid, bit hard to see, but the top plate of the chassis flexes a lot with the steering: Can't say the slop is a problem in general handling though. And it steers a lot better than stock. Since then I have moved to an aluminium chassis and carbon top plate and there is no chassis flex at all. I also run the anti-roll bars, which doesn't directly impact the steering, but obviously impacts how it corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickarla Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) No one mentioned the crown gears? As soon as you start using Bugsta wheel these gears start breaking due to the extra weight of the wheels. These tyres are bigger still! It's not the pinion/spur gear ratio thats the issue but the internal gears at the axles. Also consider swapping back to plastic hexes. By using metal if anything gives it would be the wheels and not the hexes. Plastic ones cost peanuts especially from Hobbyking and more likely to round off than the wheels. Aluminium looks great but it just pushes the breaking point onto the next weakest thing. Wheels cost a lot...as you know. Edited December 17, 2019 by Nickarla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I ordered aluminium hexes just because i had a feeling that the plastic ones are too soft and that was what destroyed my carnage wheels (hex turned inside the wheel and rounded everything). I am in doubt with these new wheels. Should i put them aside, maybe try to sell them for the reduced price? They were just test fitted and drove few meters... If i go driving hard and figure out that they wont work with carnage, they will be worthless then 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickarla Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Fair enough if you’re going off experiences with hexes. I’ve had them round off but leave the wheels fine which I’d prefer. What do you intend to do with the car? I bash and jump which is why bigger wheels aren’t a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) I bash it, i dont race, as there is not enough time for this because of the work, family and another hobby that i have... I will try with these tyres, i know it will break... but this is hobby, fixing it is maybe even more fun to me than driving it Edited December 18, 2019 by zlab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Has anybody got CAD files for the front and rear shock plates and the top plate? We have just bought a 3d printer at work, and I fancied trying to print some replacement parts. I could measure them up, but would mean stripping down the car to do it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Just seen that FTX have releaced a new version of the Carnage https://www.bigsquidrc.com/ftx-carnage-2-0-1-10th-brushed-monster-truck-rtr/ I wonder if that means there will be updates to the Buggsta and Vantage too? Not too many details on it yet. They don't seem to have changed too much other than "two new bodyshell schemes and colours, chrome plated wheels, Etronix 3ch radio and a new 60amp rated brushed esc" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capri-boy Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 ESC replacement is welcome, looks like a rebranded hobbywing now. New body shell and chromed wheels are fugly as sin, though of course that's personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 I agree, the chrome wheels look cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) On 27/12/2019 at 12:02, Tintin said: Just seen that FTX have releaced a new version of the Carnage https://www.bigsquidrc.com/ftx-carnage-2-0-1-10th-brushed-monster-truck-rtr/ I wonder if that means there will be updates to the Buggsta and Vantage too? Not too many details on it yet. They don't seem to have changed too much other than "two new bodyshell schemes and colours, chrome plated wheels, Etronix 3ch radio and a new 60amp rated brushed esc" Yeah they've been on modelsport for a bit now. It's more like a 1.1 than a 2.0 imo 😆 Edited December 29, 2019 by fnknan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I must report that the car works very nice with the new wheels. Nothing broken yet... well almost nothing. The ESC is broken again! This the second time in 6 months and i am really dissapointed with this Trackstar combo. If they will give me a refund at hobbyking, what ESC do you suggest? I am thinking about Hobbywing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Zielinski Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 One of the rear tyres on my vantage just exploded. I've always found the stock wheels and tyres quite crappy, and over had to reglue them several times. Hoping to replace with something better. What do people recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Depends on what you want do with the car. On carpet the spiked ones like the Schumacher Mini Dart On tarmac Fastrax Arrow Bashing, the mounted cuboidhttps://www.modelsport.co.uk/fastrax-1-10th-mounted-cuboid-black-buggy-wheels-and-tyres-rear/rc-car-products/434085 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlab Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Got some stuff today... carbon top plate, alu hexes, alu ackermann, two diffs and oil. I will try to seal the diffs and put some silicon oil in there The ackermann design is really poor as there are no bushings, so i did a quick and easy modification. I higly recomend this as now i have zero play in the that part of steering (together with the servo saver modification that i did earlier). I drilled the holes to 5,5mm and pressed SF-1 0403 bushings in there. Just for better feeling i used some loctite for bearings. The bushings are 5,5mm OD, 4mm ID and 3mm long. They have PTFE coating inside and will last forever. One bushing costs 0,40€... The original bushing/spacer from the plastic ackermann has a surprisingly good tolerance on the outside diameter and is a perfect fit for it. Now I can fully tighten the screws and everything runs smothly without any sticking and free play. On the future the plan is to put the bushings also on the outer hinge pins as a lot of play comes from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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