Paint advice..... what kind/brand for external paint job and how-to hints tips welcome too.

[Fat Freddy]

Hi there,

I got a Carisma coyote kit last Christmas. Had vague ideas about doing rust and weathering etc but bottled it and just did a pretty basic paint job on inside of shell.....

At the time, I just thought the shell was a generic “pick up truck” of no particular heritage. I have since found out that it’s a virtual copy of an early 60’s Toyopet Stout. Just a year or two before they changed the name to Toyota this baby is an early forerunner to the illustrious hilux.

 

Now I am thinking about a respray on the outside and then maybe have a crack at some weathering, rust and dirt effects something like the original old girl in the photo. 

Started the “scale model” process by replacing the original plasti-chrome wheels with some steelies which with a bit of help will rust up nicely but not sure where to start with the paint job.

 

I am thinking of starting with a couple of coats of grey primer, then a base colour to be revealed by scratches/ wear and tear to a different coloured top coat. 

Then finish off with rust effects before sealing the whole lot in with a Matt lacquer.......

 

I don’t have an airbrush so would be using rattle cans for the primer and main colours, then brushes for detailing, rust effects etc. 

 

But I have no idea what kind of paint to use. I know polycarbonate/lexan paint is supposed to be used on the inside of the shell isn’t it? So what kind/brand of paint could/should I use as undercoat/primer for the exterior of a shell that is suitably flexible and hard wearing? Same again for the next two colours..... I have literally NO idea. Still not settled on a colour yet either as I’m guessing there will be a limited selection because I’ll be using cans.

As a side note, I have a Vallejo acrylic rust effects kit, so I’m hoping whatever paints you recommend will be compatible with acrylic paint.

 

So, have you ever done anything similar? Have any sage advice? Any and all input gratefully received.  Thanks in advance, Fred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mond]

The easiest way to get rust if doing an external paint job is to paint the rust colour on first, use chipping fluid which is basically hair spray then apply your top coat. The use enamels to do a pin wash followed by either enamels or oils to do streaks, grime and give some depth to the rust. You may want to use enamel filters and last of all apply a dust coat. Generally enamel and oil work over acrylic but not the other way around. In theory after practice you can do away with most enamels and just use oil paints however enamels always leave the best dust coats and doubles as a sealer. Never tried that on lexan though but even if your primer will stick and accept the top layers it may not like flexing. 

[Fat Freddy]

10 hours ago, mond said:

The easiest way to get rust if doing an external paint job is to paint the rust colour on first, use chipping fluid which is basically hair spray then apply your top coat. The use enamels to do a pin wash followed by either enamels or oils to do streaks, grime and give some depth to the rust. You may want to use enamel filters and last of all apply a dust coat. Generally enamel and oil work over acrylic but not the other way around. In theory after practice you can do away with most enamels and just use oil paints however enamels always leave the best dust coats and doubles as a sealer. Never tried that on lexan though but even if your primer will stick and accept the top layers it may not like flexing. 

Thanks for replying but I obviously need to do a bit more research. Have no idea what a pin wash is, or an enamel filter but Google is my friend. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Fat Freddy]

@mond had an idea of simply spraying matt grey polycarbonate paint on the outside of the shell and using that as a primer..... would acrylics be ok on top of that?

[DartmoorTrails]

@Fat Freddy, there's a really good video by scale builders guild on weathering which shouldn't be too difficult to find.

They show a good few options, from easy through to 'committed'(!).

There's also a good bit of weathering going on by Stooza over here; 

 

[mond]

So it really depends. The issue with one paint over another is if the top layer contracts when it dries, it will cause problems. So if you take say Mr Surfacer and place it over acrylics, it will tear the acrylic of whatever it's attached too. Acrylics are not always equal as well i.e. tamiya XF acrylics are actually alcohol based despite people claiming they are water based.  Best thing to do is if you're unsure, buy a couple of cheap lexan sheets off ebay and experiment. 

[Fat Freddy]

1 minute ago, mond said:

So it really depends. The issue with one paint over another is if the top layer contracts when it dries, it will cause problems. So if you take say Mr Surfacer and place it over acrylics, it will tear the acrylic of whatever it's attached too. Acrylics are not always equal as well i.e. tamiya XF acrylics are actually alcohol based despite people claiming they are water based.  Best thing to do is if you're unsure, buy a couple of cheap lexan sheets off ebay and experiment. 

Thanks. I'm a hoarder. Still have the off cuts from the last two shells I did. I shall experiment. 👍

[Stooza]

Regarding mine to save you reading through all my waffle... 

 

The Vallejo Rust Paints and Hull Red have worked really well with the rattle cans which were all Tamiya (actually the orange door is Pactra I think). 

 

More importantly for me, it seems to have held up well with Gorilla Glue and "Nasa strength" magnets too. Don't scrimp on preparation. How ever you go a bout doing it, be prepared to sand the hell out of it first. 

 

My coats were very thin and always sanded back though, whereas if you are doing it on the outside, my assumption is that you will be slavering on layer after layer. 

[CarlC]

And don't forget salt and iron based rust paint, that was the basis for my weathered external paint job. Silver on the inside, then a blast of red/brown on the outside. Salt, then top coats. Finished with dry weathering tints, Matt clear coat, then detailed with ferrous paint that rusts.

Edited July 23, 2020 by CarlC

[Fly In My Soup]

On 21/07/2020 at 13:14, mond said:

The use enamels to do a pin wash followed by either enamels or oils to do streak

 

I've heard of 'pin wash' many times before.... 

 

Please explain the process 

 

I dont do much weathering to be fair... Not really an uber fan of it... A friend on fb does a lot of. It (Johnny rains)... And his look awesome to be fair... Its just never been very appealing to me.. 

 

I did do a bit of graphite weathering recently though which went ok I guess

[mond]

A pin wash is more detailing rather than weathering and its main purpose is to create depth. Typically you'd apply your base layers of paint i.e primer then the base colour, possibly apply a filter then once cured apply either a thin layer of satin or gloss varnish to seal it. Don't use matte because it will cause problems. The next step is the pin wash, where you'd typically use either thinned enamels or thinned oils. The varnish stops the base layer absorbing the thinners/oil and allows capillary action and easy cleaning. You take a thin brush, apply your pin colour, typically a darker colour of your base and apply it to details and panel lines. The reason to do it with enamels or oils over a varnish, other than the aforementioned reasons is it's extremely easy to clean up where you don't want the wash such as raised surfaces I.e. rivets or welds. Both perfect for pin wash bit also highlighting on the exposed surface. There are acrylic washes but honestly, they are no where near as easy to use it get the same effect. Some people will so several pin washes at different stages i.e. a dusty tank with streaks of oil, diesel etc. You'll do your dusting coats and other weathering and then pin wash again with a darker dust colour to create depth in places where it's needed.

 

On YouTube, Google Mig Jiminez. He does some good videos on these techniques. For plastic models his products are also some of the best.

 

Graphite is good stuff for metal detail. Despite all the products that get sold, you can do almost anything with oil paints, thinners, graphite and a a good set of acrylics that can be brushed of airbrushed like Mig's paints. Tamiya XF are horrible brush paints though but great through an airbrush.

 

That a said though, got no idea how this all works on lexan. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by mond