m4inbrain Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Still liking it. Even more now since parts might be interchangeable to some extent. Also, and that's more curiosity, is this the first/only RTR that comes with a charger and a LiPo rather than a NiMH (like the Helion)? Edited January 15, 2020 by m4inbrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, m4inbrain said: Yeah, sure, as i said, you can charge it with a 5w solar charger. I didn't bring up "perfectly" btw, that was someone else. But of course, charging "perfectly" is charging a battery at 1c. And that 0.6ish charge rate is the maximum your 50W charger manages with a 4s 5000mah battery. A 4s 5000mah pulls, at 1c charging, 84W. Meaning 42W is 0.5c, making 50W slightly more than 0.5c. In reality it's probably even less considering you're supposed to take 20% loss into account. Sure, I should've worded it differently. I should've said it's nonsense to buy an underpowered charger if you have to get a new (first) one anyway. It's still wrong to suggest an underpowered charger "charges perfectly", it charges slower than a charger that has the proper wattage, making it by the very definition not perfect. That's me done on this topic though. That's quite surprising. They seem to have done a proper $ to £ conversion (unlike pretty much every other RC manufacturer who just changes the $ sign to a £ sign?). That would take the "big kit" to £299, truck/charger/battery. If the truck is as good as i think it might be (i don't know the Helion that it's apparently based on either, so i gotta wait for reviews/videos etc), this might actually be the best value entry level basher vehicle on the market currently. Could take the carnage's spot 👀👀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, m4inbrain said: Still liking it. Even more now since parts might be interchangeable to some extent. Also, and that's more curiosity, is this the first/only RTR that comes with a charger and a LiPo rather than a NiMH (like the Helion)? Nah my friends carnage came with a 2s lipo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4inbrain Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 If it stays £249, i'd argue that it's possible, or at the very least an equal suggestion in case the carnage doesn't "entirely do it". It's marginally more expensive, but there's a lot more vehicle too. And yeah you're right, just saw that the Carnage Brushless indeed comes with a LiPo as well, making the £200 version an "all in one package", whereas the Rival MT "all in one package" would be £299 (if they keep the pricing in relation to the US prices). £100 is quite substantial in that bracket. I personally would take the Rival MT over a Carnage, but if the budget is (very) limited, the Carnage is still not beat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukynas Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Nothing against FTX but that's different category and grade compared to Helion/TA, better comparison would be with someone like Absima and their AMT3.4 EP or BL trucks We should be looking at value for money here rather than cheapest available.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Nothing against FTX but that's different category and grade compared to Helion/TA, better comparison would be with someone like Absima and their AMT3.4 EP or BL trucks We should be looking at value for money here rather than cheapest available....Aren't parts between the Absima and equivalent FTX basically the same?Steering knuckles, A arms, belcrank/servosaver, diff, bulkhead, dogbones...Perhaps the chassis is slightly modified but they are overall very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukynas Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 No idea but they are very similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I'd probably say that the Stampede and Granite or Big Rock are the most direct popular competition for this truck, I'd even go so far as to say its worth a thought for those looking at the 1:10 Kraton/Outcast, HPI Bullet, LOSI Tenacity MT, or the Proline Pro-MT, especially at its current prices. Will be interesting to see just how durable it is at half the price of the Maxx as well.Someone give one to the Kev Talbot crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Yeah Kev will definitely put it through its paces. I don't really know how it'll perform, the helion dominus was a pretty awful car, but this is a completely different platform so who knows Edited January 16, 2020 by fnknan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukynas Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just to be clear, I meant I would compare FTX to Absima as they are in same category, Helion/TA is in Arrma/Losi category Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Kukynas said: Just to be clear, I meant I would compare FTX to Absima as they are in same category, Helion/TA is in Arrma/Losi category Oh I see, that makes more sense now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4inbrain Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kukynas said: Nothing against FTX but that's different category and grade compared to Helion/TA, better comparison would be with someone like Absima and their AMT3.4 EP or BL trucks We should be looking at value for money here rather than cheapest available.... I disagree entirely, and yes, i'm looking precisely at value for money. Put it this way. The Carnage is two thirds of the price of the Rival MT (£200 with lipo and charger vs at least £300 for the Rival with lipo and charger, and that's just us guessing the price - could easily be £349 as well). While i think that the Rival looks awesome, it's not necessarily the "better" truck. Electrics, size, probably radio (couldn't find anything on the Rival Radio, but considering the price it won't be a stunner of a radio either) - all are somewhat equal. Nothing on either truck is top drawer (reedy electrics for the Rival, Dynam electrics for the Carnage, both plastic bombers, etc - though the Rival has a better servo, it's not "£100 better"). No, the carnage isn't the greatest RC ever made, and btw, it's also not the cheapest. It's, as you said, the best value at £100 less than the Rival. The Rival in fact is very close to the Typhon 3s, which comes with good electrics etc. Granted, it's a buggy so it has some more stringent requirements for where to run it - but the question wasn't "what's the cheapest monster truck", it's what's the best value entry into the hobby. While i personally would take the Rival over the carnage (that's down to looks almost entirely), i wouldn't take a Rival over a Typhon 3s if i could run it. I mentioned that i really like this truck, but it's not even remotely close to a ProMT, Tenacity or Kraton/Outcast. It doesn't want to be, either. That's where "cheaper" not "more value" is used as the yardstick. Every one of those trucks is not even remotely comparable in quality to the Rival. Stampede or Granite, sure (though i'm not familiar with either, so i can't judge how much you get with those for your money). I stand by my opinion, as "the best value entry RC", the Carnage is better. That doesn't mean it's the better RC, it means that it's £100 cheaper but still a decent RC, not a china toy. If you can run a Typhon where you live (and as i mentioned, i understand that not everyone can - i can't, for example), it's better value too at almost the same price of the Rival. If you can't run it, yeah, it's not an option obviously and the Rival beats it by default. edit: but judging by the comparisons made here, we seem to be talking different categories entirely. I'm talking entry into the hobby, you guys are talking purely monster trucks (which of course the carnage isn't in the first place). Edited January 16, 2020 by m4inbrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCbutcher Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I think it looks like a pimped traxxas old gen 1ten. In the way the tires look like badlands too. I thought more of associated but when the recipe is proven and all that. It's not like associated has been top of anyones basher list for years so mayb needed a safe bet. With arrma and traxxas taking the 1tens into 4s as standard realm it will still be behind or need to be cheaper. For me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kukynas Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Paul Busby said: Oh I see, that makes more sense now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. my bad, I should have been more specific in my comparison 🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babylon Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Having a look around at trucks in this slot, There is one car that seems to be overlooked, I do get why, There's not much info out there on them, Or much info on any of there range, But the HobbyTech BXR MT from the looks seems like a very nice truck, Nice shocks, Solid arms, OK, I can see it's an extra tenner over the Associated, So it could be a hard sell, But we have no idea the quality of the Rival, Think it looks like a nice gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 A-Arms look quite "Tekno-y" on that... probably where the similarities end, of course, but it has potential. To me the Shock towers and geometry looks a little wrong for an MT though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babylon Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Have you really just used the word 'Geometry' in association with a 1/10 bashing monster truck, Not sure that's really a reason to mark it down.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4inbrain Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) To be entirely fair, i get what he means. In the first second i also thought "that's a weird looking buggy". Maybe the pictures lie (as in, weird angles or something) - but there doesn't seem to be much travel in those front shocks, and they're definitely not mounted like monster truck shocks usually are. These are mounted like buggy shocks (at least in the front). And, while admittedly not the most important part (nowhere near indeed), this must be the ugliest shell i've seen in a long time, though that's probably taste. edit: 50A ESC.. Is this 3s capable? Edited January 17, 2020 by m4inbrain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Exactly, the front look like exactly like buggy shock towers and the angle doesn't look right for an MT. I say this as someone who has a Kraton and MT410 right next to me, without a shell on. I also agree about it being ugly as sin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babylon Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, m4inbrain said: edit: 50A ESC.. Is this 3s capable? It dose say it is, I haven't paid much attention to the Amp rating in years, It's down to quality, Would trust a 50A Hobbywing on 3s over a TSky 120A. This one of the best ESC I have ever had, 80A and rated for 4s, And if you switched in on and off a couple of times would even recognise and run 5s, Run in everything from a buggy to a converted Savage. I kind of get it with the shocks, But I'm not sure I would class any of them as true monster trucks, Are they really that much different than a Thunder Tiger MTA G3(Other than size) which was basically a Buggy with Truggy arms. What I'm saying is that there is now a very fine line between one class and another, To the point we can all argue all day about what is a Truggy, What is a Monster Truck, Or a stunt Truck, Stick big wheels on the Revo and they had the Summit, I think it's so messed up now with manufactures trying to bring something new and different to the market that you can't really say one thing is this and another is that, Or the shocks don't look to be at the right angle to pass as a monster truck. Edited January 17, 2020 by babylon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Busby Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I'm not saying it won't work, just that it looks strange/wrong. If someone reviews it and says it's great, then it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4inbrain Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, babylon said: It dose say it is, I haven't paid much attention to the Amp rating in years, It's down to quality, Would trust a 50A Hobbywing on 3s over a TSky 120A. This one of the best ESC I have ever had, 80A and rated for 4s, And if you switched in on and off a couple of times would even recognise and run 5s, Run in everything from a buggy to a converted Savage. I kind of get it with the shocks, But I'm not sure I would class any of them as true monster trucks, Are they really that much different than a Thunder Tiger MTA G3(Other than size) which was basically a Buggy with Truggy arms. What I'm saying is that there is now a very fine line between one class and another, To the point we can all argue all day about what is a Truggy, What is a Monster Truck, Or a stunt Truck, Stick big wheels on the Revo and they had the Summit, I think it's so messed up now with manufactures trying to bring something new and different to the market that you can't really say one thing is this and another is that, Or the shocks don't look to be at the right angle to pass as a monster truck. Oh yeah, i agree that quality > rating, since most ratings on "cheap" ESCs are probably exaggerated anyway. Better caps etc in that regard help more. And no, i wouldn't class any of these as "true" monster trucks either, as we know most stuff on the market is basically monsterfied truggies (except maybe the Kyosho Mad Crusher and Axial SMT10s etc). But even for a truggy, these shocks are too horizontal. They're setup like for a buggy (in the front, the rear looks fine), and they seem to have buggy-level of travel. While we can certainly argue what passes as monster truck and what doesn't nowadays, i don't think that there's an argument that one of the main characteristics of any MT (or monsterfied truggy, or anything wanting to be an MT) is big suspension. Now i haven't seen any of those Hobbytech RCs, ever - but these look like maybe 20mm travel in the front. That's not much. The front shocks on this monster truck are the rear shocks of their racing buggy(?) BRX S1. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying this is a bad truck, i literally know nothing about it (other than the shell being butt-ugly ). I'm just saying i understand if someone looks at the suspension and is weirded out a little, it does indeed look weird for a monster truck (or similar thing) to me. Edited January 17, 2020 by m4inbrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, babylon said: . 'The best ESC in china'. Made me chuckle 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4inbrain Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Tbf, it's a Xerun. I've got one of them as well in something (i think one of my SCTs), they're indeed really good. Though mine never ran 4s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnknan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Can you even buy those ones anymore? I haven't seen them in years. Hobbywing stuff is pretty expensive now (at least to me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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