Nitroholic Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Got some nice chunky Hong Nor big bores on my Hyper ST truggy, but they seem a little 'soggy' I have replaced the oil with 40wt shock oil, and it was still awfully soft. Springs are blue ones, which apparantly are the hardest. Is it likely they are just worn and have a 'set' in them that is taking up all the preload, or are there stiffer springs I can use? I have moved the lower shock positions in to make the shocks more vertical, giving a bit more clearance, but if I drop it from about 18" onto the deck, the chassis grounds out. Takes no effort at all to push it down either. If it's how they are, then so be it....but it doesn't feel right to me. I'd budgeted for a shock overhaul, but don;t want to go buy the same springs all over again, or end up with something softer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deafty Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Are u sure the springs are right? Edit:++ 01-11-2010, 08:37 PM The different colours are there to help identify the different spring rates. the yellow springs are the softest from hong nor, and theres something a bit dogey about the blue and grey that i forget that the fronts of one are softer, and the rear are harder. found this a long time ago, just dug it out again. front shock springs soft to hard; yellow, white, nickel, blue, grey rear shock springs soft to hard; yellow, white, nickel, blue, grey using the harder springs will make it harder to compress the shock, but it will push it out faster and harder. using the soft springs, it will compress easily, but then there isnt enough strength in the spring to push it back out again. Edited March 18, 2013 by Deafty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jony nitro Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Whats your rebound set to when you did your shocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAZ Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Same problem with my hobao 20mm shocks - using the hong nor blue/stiff springs. I've got 65wt in the front and some 80wt for the rears. I've also got them on full preload - better but could do with some stiffer springs (if they exist??) Froggy stretched his springs slightly and said they were a bit better My chassis raises up at the front with the big bores on which i've only just noticed - no idea why though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAZ Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Are u sure the springs are right? > I thought "Nickel" colour were/are the hardest. Could be wrong but I know I read that statement earlier today. Along with comments just like u listed with the use of springs other than "nickel" on a truggy. (16mm big bores) Hong nor blue/hard springs http://www.apexmodels.com/gbu0-prodshow/HN390B.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stebro Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 No one likes a soggy bore , sorry back on topic Is there ant way you can adjust the piston holes on them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Whats your rebound set to when you did your shocks I left the pistons as they were. The damping seems fine, and the rebound OK....it just doesn't rebound enough, and the effort required to compress the suspension is far to little It settles very low too and just stays there. Once there, the action is OK, just there isn't much of it left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jony nitro Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) you need to see a Doctor,Muahhaha;-) my rebound us set the 50% Edited March 18, 2013 by jony nitro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmytheone Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I cant see how it could be anything else other than the spring rate. They are the 16mm ones right? you could try using the associated springs. The Associated Bronze springs are 5.9 and the HN Blues are 4.65 (Fronts) The Associated Bronze springs are 4.0 and the HN Blues are 3.81 (rears). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Cheers Jimmy....that sounds worth a try. I like the feel of the shocks, and the damping feels nice. With stiffer springs, I can get back some choice on the preload rather than having it on max just to keep it from dragging it's butt like a dog with worms! I reckon it's heavier now it's converted, with a big lump of LiPo in there. I also read that the St is heavier than the Hong Nor as well...so the shocks are carrying a bit more load than they were intended to have. Got the part numbers...now I just got to find some stock ...well..apparantly Wheelspin have them... Edit: Just gave the shocks a measure. Bodies are aroun d 17mm diameter, the springs are 22mm diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopeydog Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Try building the shocks with more rebound? I know most people won't, but these shocks are used at high level competitions where the top drivers will rebuild the shocks before every race meeting to get the rebound set right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Not being funny....but how is more rebound damping going to help? That will just make the shock respond slower after it hits the top of the stroke. The problem I have is the car settling far too low even with max preload wound on. If it does that at rest, there is very little shock travel left to cope with bumps. If I lift it off the ground, so the shocks are at full droop...then drop it from around 18" height...it slaps the deck. When you rest it gently down, it drops by about an inch under it's own weight. Increased damping might reduce the first, but not the second. The damping comes into play if you push it down further....but there is not enough travel left, and no amount of damping is going to chage that. It will just change the speed of the shocks response. I want it to sit at rest with the A-arms level, and it won't. Additionally....I have no intention of rebuilding the shocks for every bash . I am not tuning for better laptimes....I just think a truggy should have a bit more ground clearance than a buggy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmytheone Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Edit: Just gave the shocks a measure. Bodies are aroun d 17mm diameter, the springs are 22mm diameter. I can give the ones on my RC8T a measure if you fancy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopeydog Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Not being funny....but how is more rebound damping going to help? That will just make the shock respond slower after it hits the top of the stroke. The problem I have is the car settling far too low even with max preload wound on. If it does that at rest, there is very little shock travel left to cope with bumps. If I lift it off the ground, so the shocks are at full droop...then drop it from around 18" height...it slaps the deck. When you rest it gently down, it drops by about an inch under it's own weight. Increased damping might reduce the first, but not the second. The damping comes into play if you push it down further....but there is not enough travel left, and no amount of damping is going to chage that. It will just change the speed of the shocks response. I want it to sit at rest with the A-arms level, and it won't. Additionally....I have no intention of rebuilding the shocks for every bash . I am not tuning for better laptimes....I just think a truggy should have a bit more ground clearance than a buggy... Rebound as used in the RC sense is different to how it is used on a real car. By full rebound, I mean if you take the shocks off the car and the springs off the shocks then push the shaft in, it should come all the way back out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirusDviruS Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've owned HN nickel springs and they were too stiff really for the Virus 2.0. Sadly not had the HN blue so can't compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Rebound as used in the RC sense is different to how it is used on a real car. By full rebound, I mean if you take the shocks off the car and the springs off the shocks then push the shaft in, it should come all the way back out again. The damper is there to control the spring movement, you adjust the damper to suit the spring. The spring is dictated by the load...it sounds like he needs stiffer springs. In all of this thread it annoys me that there is no standardised colours...but then that would be too easy eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaZilla Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Or all springs just having a standardised stiffness rating..... Like how shock Oils have WT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 Rebound as used in the RC sense is different to how it is used on a real car. By full rebound, I mean if you take the shocks off the car and the springs off the shocks then push the shaft in, it should come all the way back out again. Ahh...that makes a bit more sense. Sadly...due to a spell of ill health, I haven't been able to do anything with the info, but I will have a look at it. Probably still fit get a set of stiffer springs ( thanks Jim) as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R46 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) When got ansmann big bore shocks those where soft, the piston had 6 holes i blocked 3 an use 60wt much better buggy handled marshes with breeze not bottoming out as use to, brought stiff springs but never needed to use them. Edited March 27, 2013 by R46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRAETORIAN Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 What piston inserts has it got in the shocks? If it has the type with loads of holes, you might just need to use heavier oil, or swap them out for inserts with less holes. The increased resistance in the shock body should help to stop the car bottoming out too easily. That said - its a nitro platform, and they are designed to bottom our under impact, so the forces get transferred through the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deafty Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 How have you gotton on Nitro? TrickyTris is in the same situation (Lightning Stadium) So far I've tried.. Ansmann Stock Springs + 35wt, 58wt, 70wt oil. Rear sits permanently on the floor. Zero rebound. Hong Nor Hard Springs + 35wt, 58wt, 70wt oil. Rear STILL sits on the floor. Zero rebound. I'm beyond confused & now starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the 59mm rear toe I'm using. Possibly the shocks are at too much of an angle to have any kind of rebound or resistance? As when I sit the shocks upright, with the entire chassis weight resting on them, they barely sag at all! Yet once fitted, they hit the floor! Unbelievable! Well and truly doing my head in, as I've wasted so much oil & taken the shocks on/off what's seems a thousand times! I'm going to change the toe bracket tomorrow. Failing that, the stock shocks are going back on & Ansmann's in the bin!! and mine just arrived.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyneil Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The whole answer to this thread kyosho springs the ones I found for the terrier are the strongest I've found till I tried the team c brushless buggy firm springs their just about the same the problem your all having is nitro springs are on the whole softer than those used on brushless kits the hong nor and ansmann big bore shocks are the same and the trick with them is to make the holes bigger but inclined so allows the to rebound easier the other options are either try different pistons I've heard losi ones fit but never tried them or try the team c ones they also should fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 I used the Team Associated ones. Seem to be doing the job nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAZ Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The whole answer to this thread kyosho springs the ones I found for the terrier are the strongest I've found till I tried the team c brushless buggy firm springs their just about the same the problem your all having is nitro springs are on the whole softer than those used on brushless kits the hong nor and ansmann big bore shocks are the same and the trick with them is to make the holes bigger but inclined so allows the to rebound easier the other options are either try different pistons I've heard losi ones fit but never tried them or try the team c ones they also should fit Have you got a link to the kyosho springs you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAZ Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I used the Team Associated ones. Seem to be doing the job nicely Do they fit the hobao 20mm big bores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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