Buyers Guide

[Garry]

This guide is written by Garry, jameschatz, Samari and Nick of the MSUK forum, and is NOT to be reproduced in any way, shape or form without expressed written consent from the author.

Intro

RC is wonderful hobby. Full of technical, diverse models, and can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. Equally, there's models to suit all budgets. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest cars, or today's must-have gadgets. Inevitably, the secondhand market is the ideal route to your next car, but how do you tell a dog from a pup? And when does a bargain appear to be too good to be true?

What Car?

Right, you want into the world of RC, or you're looking to get a second (or possibly third) car), but you're put off by the high prices for new models? You're certain you want to save as much money as possible so need to look for secondhand models......but which?

You need to ask yourself a couple of very important questions:

1. Electric, Nitro, Petrol?

It makes more difference that you'd think.

Electric cars are some of the easiest to get into, a substantial amount of the market is literally plug and play. But the amount of maintenance high-end equipment needs (like equalisers, dischargers, lathes) tend to put off many. LiPo batteries and brushless motors have eased this problem in the past few years though.

Nitro is arguably the biggest sector of RC, as Joe Public has been exposed the RC in the flavour of Nitro through BBC's Top Gear. Time and time again, whenever we've had a poll of what's more popular, Nitro has won with the top answer being the noise and smell. Today's engines are easy to start and simple to tune, and are getting more and more accessible.

Petrol cars have a high initial outlay, but very cheap to run, the average price for a litre of fuel is about £1, but thats a hell of a lot of running, even when you factor in the cost of Oil, its still cheap. A lot cheaper than a Nitro model. You do need a considerable amount of space to play with them though.

2. On-road or Off-road?

Whichever you choose, it'll be specific for that kind of surface. For exaple, an On-road car is excellent when the ground is flat, you can modify a chassis to run Off-road,but at best it'll be limited to short grass or gravel. Likewise, an Off-road car will run OK on tarmac, but an On-road car will run rings about it.

Think about what you want to do with a potential purchase, and decide which will suit you best. Which brings us on to....

3. Bash or Race?

Quite a lot of companies these days make cars that either suit bashing (driving where you want, usually with mates in a field, or carpark) or racing (at your local club or higher levels, such as regional or national).

Cars designed for bashing tend to be simple to work on, cheap to buy spares for, but above all, they are strong. The flipside is, the performance is not as high as it could have been with a racing model. Race cars, tend to be light, adjustable for best handling performance, but usually more expensive than bashing cars. A good comparison is the Traxxas Bandit and the Team Associated B4. Both are 2wd Off-road electric buggies, but whereas the B4 is a lightweight racing machine with a couple of World titles and numerous national wins, its not as tough and durable as the Bandit is. Likewise, a Tamiya TT01 will bounce off endless walls and kerbs before breaking, but an Corally RDX Phi will snap at the sight of a track marker.

One very important thing to bear in mind though, don't assume the fastest thing on the market is the best car to go for. If you haven't got at least a year of RC car ownership under you belt, then a lot of cars will be overpowered. If thats the case, expect a lot of accidents, repair bills, and ultimately the car still in you shed while you're waiting for spares! You'll save money in the long run but starting off with a slower car, then making it faster gradually over the time you own it before progressing on.

Even after reading this, you're not sure of what you want, just ask a question in the appropriate forum here and someone will be able to help.

Do:

*Try and find your local track, as there will be people there who know what they're doing.

*Find somewhere to run it first, big open spaces are essential for petrol models.

*Give yourself a budget, and think what you want to use it for. This will help people give you the best advice.

Don't:

*Go for the very first thing you see, take time to research it.

*Buy more than one car, if it is your first one, as if you don't like the hobby, you will have wasted your money.

The next step, do some homework

By now you should have a good idea of what you want. But now you need to do some old-fashioned homework. Have a look on the manufacturer website, scan all the pics, read all the text, download the documentation where possible. Next, read the manufacturer's forum, or any threads you can find on that car via search engines like Google. Look for reviews (forum, magazine etc) And find people with the same chassis, they might have spotted problems that reviewer's have missed (or ignored).

Where to buy is the next step. If you're buying new, Google will help here. Type the name of the chassis into it and look for pages in the UK. About 70% of the UK model shops have their business online and do mail order, so its a small effort to have a look at 10 or so shops and compare prices. Don't forget to factor in the postage too!

If you're going secondhand, the 2 main options to look are Forums and Ebay. Ebay is both a blessing and a curse. You can have a list of suitable options in front of you, with a crystal clear price and postage in front of you, plus the backup of the likes of PayPal if something goes wrong, and easy to see feedback ratings BUT, it can be a headache if something is mislabeled or incorrectly listed, or just badly pictured. If you're in ANY doubt, don't bid.

Forums are more intimate in the way that you can see the members posting in other areas, see their post count, and in the case of our forum, an alphabetical feedback section. In a lot of cases, you can barter and haggle on the price, but its generally be the case of 'buyer beware'.

If you can, try to buy in person, you can have a good look at the car in question, and in some cases, see it running. Nothing beats a hands-on check.

What to look for

This is split into 2 separate parts, buying secondhand online, and buying secondhand in the real world.

Online:

Read all of the advert carefully. Make sure you're familiar with the standard spec of the car in question so you can spot upgrades easily. If there's photos, download them onto your PC, enlarge them and look closely. Read the condition and look for wear and tear, and where possible, price up the cost of repairs/missing parts.

If there's no pics, ask for some. if the seller doesn't (or can't) provide some, walk away, there's the possibility of the seller hiding something. Ideally, you need to see it

* With the body on

* With the body off

* Closeup of the front end

* Closeup of the rear end

* Underside of the chassis

* Any extras/spares/equipment

* The whole bundle together

If the car is on Ebay, look at the seller's feedback. Anything under 95% (or any negative feedback within the last 12months) is usually a bad sign, so steer clear. On the forums, read the feedback threads, a similar guideline applies. Also, be wary of 'new' sellers, both on forums and Ebay, you don't know how reliable they are.

Real World:

Again, after you've done your homework, have a good, long look over the car. Make sure all the drivetrain spins freely without any binding or tight spots. Look for frayed belts (if its belt drive) or bend driveshafts (centre one on a shaft-drive car). Look out for chipped or missing teeth on gears, as a pinion will shred it in no time if one is missing. Take a steel ruler with you and put it on any flat part of the chassis, you're looking for any bend or distortion that would indicate that its had a hard life. check the suspension for squeaks or bend shock shafts, wiggle the wishbones and steering parts in all directions, slop can be shimmed, but might indicate a bent hingepin. Tight or gritty bearings show that it hasn't been maintained well enough and could overheat at motor or engine. Finally, look at the differentials, check for looseness or binding, it should have a free action but not too slack.

Questions to ask the seller (applies to both Online and Real World):

How many owners has it had?

How long have you had it?

What upgrades have you bought?

When was it last rebuilt (or cleaned)?

Prices

This is a tricky subject. In all fairness, something is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay. In some cases, demand outstrips supply, so the going rate is higher than expected.

If you're buying from an online modelshop, the price you see is the one you pay. In some bricks-and-mortar shops, you can get discounts or accessories thrown in. For example, my local model shop offers a 10% discount for any members of the local model car club.

Ebay is the same, the price you see (either Buy It Now or at the end of the auction) is the price you pay.

On forums, the prices are usually more flexible. If you see the letters 'ono' ('or nearest offer') after a price, then the seller is open to an offer near the asking price.

If there is no price listed, then the seller may put 'Offers' down. This means the seller is open to any offer he or she deems is acceptable, usually by PM. However, a lot of forums actively discourage that, taking the view that the seller has put the term 'offers' purely in the hope that someone who hasn't researched things will put an over-inflated offer in, above the true value of the car. Again, buyer beware.

Don't forget to budget for the cost of postage if its not already in the price, and ask for the car to be sent via Special Delivery, or at the very least, 1st Class Recorded. Both methods are trackable, and avoid any nasty accusations of items not turning up.

Generally, if you spot something that's wrong about the car and isn't listed, then knock a bit off the price listed.

Exact prices depend on the car, but 60-75% of the RRP is normal.

Look at as many similar cars as you can, so you get a good idea of the current going rate and market value.

Do's:

*Check the feedback section first

*Ask for recorded delivery, and a tracking number so you can check where your parcel is.

*Use a secure form of Payment, such as PayPal.

*Allow a reasonable amount of time for the goods to be delivered, especially if it is around Xmas.

*Try and get another form of contact; msn, e-mail or phone number, in case you need them.

*Keep calm if something goes wrong, getting worked up over it isn't the best way to go about solving the problem.

Don'ts:

*Ask for goods to be sent, before you send payment.

*Send cash in unrecorded post.

What Else You Will Need.

If you are going to buy a car on its own you will probably need to buy other accessesories before it is ready to go.

For Nitro cars you will need:

• Fuel (Click here for some idea of what to buy.
  
• Transmitter with batteries
  
• Rotostart / glowstarter / electric start, with batteries (check to see what starting mechanism your engine uses)
  
• Screwdriver and allen keys.
  
• Battery Charger
  
• Spare Glowplugs (Click here for advice on which plug to buy)
  

For Electric Rollers you will need:

• Motor (Check it is within the limits of the ESC)
  
• Electronic Speed Controller (ESC)
  
• Battery Pack (Check what size fits your car)
  
• Transmitter and receiever with batteries
  
• Battery charger
  
• Screwdriver and allen keys
  

Check out this thread for more information on the different components in electric cars.

Many Electric Ready to Run (RTR) cars come with accessesories anyway so check what

is included in the purchase. If the car comes alone you will need:

• Battery Pack (Check what size fits your car)
  
• Transmitter (With batteries)
  
• Battery Charger
  
• Screwdriver and allen keys
  

Extra notes

If you're looking to buy some specific piece of equipment like an engine or an ESC, a lot of this guide still applies, just make sure you do your research and get a good range of prices before picking one. If you're selling something, be sure you can tick off all or as many points in this guide as you can.

Finally

So, there you go, Not much more can be added apart from a couple of golden rules:

If something is too good to be true, it usually is.

If you are in any way unsure of something, ASK!

and the best of all,

Take your time and don't rush into anything! Research if the key.

[Garry]

I had this sent to me via PM, its a very important tip, please take it into consideration before doing any deal!

''Hi Garry,

Sorry to bother you but I think this is worth a mention.

Me and another member have just had a hairy moment where I give him a misspelt email address for him to pay me with paypal and he sent the money, luckily the email address didn't exist but if it did we would have been in a pickle.

I have realised a sure fire way to stop this happening is for the seller to log into their paypal account and request the money from the buyer.

I think this would be worth adding to your buyer guide - I can't find a mention of this anywhere.

Also it may be worth mentioning that Paypal now charge the sender to send money as gift which may help stop dodgy sellers taking advantage as buyers won't be very happy sending gift transactions if they are not really saving any money and footing the seller bill!.

Thanks for your time''

[keenan]

paypal only charge to send via gift if ur not a clarified user

[waterboy]

HELP i had contact with a member (wayne4) the other night as im after a duel motor esc, he said he has one for 20 pounds and he would send it next day, so he sent me a paypal invoice maked goods and i payed, he's now no longer a member so i cant contact him, ive been done! apart from waiting for paypal is there anything more i can do?

[nitrotom]

HELP i had contact with a member (wayne4) the other night as im after a duel motor esc, he said he has one for 20 pounds and he would send it next day, so he sent me a paypal invoice maked goods and i payed, he's now no longer a member so i cant contact him, ive been done! apart from waiting for paypal is there anything more i can do?

There is a separate thread on this in the general RC section. Topic title I've been scammed out of

[steve74]

hi, hope somebody could give some advise on what to buy next, i have a traxxas summit 1/10 at the moment and have about