New Hyper VS 30 Turbo engine issues

[Joshua223]

Hello all,

 

I’m fairly new to nitro but have owned one before and it’s been a blast!

I recently received a Hyper VS with the new 30 turbo engine and it’s given me nothing but headache.

Breaking in was difficult, it was running very very rich but getting very hot quick! As soon as the temps began rising (above 200F) I shut it down, let it cool bdc and began again. Smoke billowing out the exhaust and drinking fuel like it was going out of fashion.

 

Finally managed to get 5 tanks through it and varying the throttle as the tanks got on but had to lean it up a little to even get it to move. 
Tank 10 today and I got it moving decently, temps around 200F but the exhaust was boiling hot!

Just having a little fun when it stopped. Conrod hasn’t snapped or bent but the bushing has completely come out and mangled the conrod! 
 

The silicone exhaust gaskets have both completely melted as well!

Backstory,

 

When cold, the engine would be so rich that it would barely move, eventually it seemed to clear and the smoke that was billowing out reduced quite a lot. It was like it leaned itself out while running but smoke was always visible from the exhaust and temps taken at the glow plug were again around 200F. 
 

Both the LSN and HSN are rich (pinch test the idle rises significantly before cutting out 5 seconds or so later) and the HSN was still rich enough to prevent reaching a good speed. I’ve babied this engine! 
 

So, new conrod time! Don’t suppose anyone has any advice do they? Why it might be leaning itself out? Or what else could have caused the exhaust gasket to melt and the conrod to shred itself? (I carried the car back to the garage by the engine after it stopped just to prove it wasn’t too hot).

 

Thanks in advance all!

[Jumper]

200F is only 93c, a big nitro engine normally runs about 110-120c thats 230 to 245ish in F.  120c is right at the top end of that though.  Unless it states otherwise in the engine manual. I would consider 100c a normal idle temp. 

 

It could have a very small air leak somewhere which gets worse at higher speeds? 

 

It could also be bad fuel? 

 

It could also be this engine was bad from the start.

 

Also do you preheat the engine before starting it with a heat gun or engine heater, or just start  from cold? 

 

[Joshua223]

I pre-heated it with a hat gun the first time I started it and even put a drop of oil into the piston so it didn’t move dry for the first pull.

But I haven’t pre-heated since. Compression was nice but didn’t feel like it would get stuck at TDC so I didn’t bother afterwards.

An air leak is what I’m thinking, I’ve uploaded a video on YouTube so you can see how rich it runs to start with then leans itself out!

 

 

[Jumper]

8 hours ago, Joshua223 said:

I pre-heated it with a hat gun the first time I started it and even put a drop of oil into the piston so it didn’t move dry for the first pull.

But I haven’t pre-heated since. Compression was nice but didn’t feel like it would get stuck at TDC so I didn’t bother afterwards.

An air leak is what I’m thinking, I’ve uploaded a video on YouTube so you can see how rich it runs to start with then leans itself out!

 

 

yeah that was a crazy amount of smoke at the start there XD. It seems to be about the right amount of smoke at the end, but obviously its not a very long video. 

[Joshua223]

At the start, it would bearly move! I’ve contacted the supplier and waiting for them to get back to me.

Can you see what I mean about it leaning itself out almost? Or is it?

Don't suppose you can shed any light on why the exhaust gaskets (silicone) have melted?

Before it went, I changed all the fuel lines from white to clear  to make sure there was no bubbles and to visually aid in priming.

I’ve checked the fuel tank and lines for leaks, the exhaust wasn’t leaking when it was cold either but may have once it was hot.

Hopefully I’ll be back up and running again soon. I’ve also been looking at the fastrax enduro engine because for the price they look really well made and supposedly are really hard wearing.

 

Anyway, thank you Jumper!

[Jumper]

3 hours ago, Joshua223 said:

At the start, it would bearly move! I’ve contacted the supplier and waiting for them to get back to me.

Can you see what I mean about it leaning itself out almost? Or is it?

Don't suppose you can shed any light on why the exhaust gaskets (silicone) have melted?

Before it went, I changed all the fuel lines from white to clear  to make sure there was no bubbles and to visually aid in priming.

I’ve checked the fuel tank and lines for leaks, the exhaust wasn’t leaking when it was cold either but may have once it was hot.

Hopefully I’ll be back up and running again soon. I’ve also been looking at the fastrax enduro engine because for the price they look really well made and supposedly are really hard wearing.

 

Anyway, thank you Jumper!

I dont think it is leaning out that much really, its probably just because you are going faster the smoke is a bit thinner as its more spread out the faster you go, its really the sound you can go by, you'll be able to hear if its leaning because it will make a certain sounds, i think hpi have videos on engine tuning that are quite in depth showing you what is sounds like too rich vs too lean. Too rich is hesitant and boggy whereas too lean tends to be very quick but stutter. 

 

I have no idea why the gaskets for the exhaust have melted, that does not seem right at all, they should be able to withstand massive heat, they use the same stuff on full size cars. 

 

A lot of this nitro tuning is feel and sounds and knowing what it should sound and feel like, so it is hard to troubleshoot over the internet XD 

 

 

[RickC]

I wouldn't put oil in it that wont help the smoking .  Very slow on the biting point at those revs too, mine would have been off down the road,

 

Have you been playing with the needle and the A/F mix screws ? 

 

Put everything g back to factory and start again.

 

What % fuel are you using  

[Joshua223]

7 hours ago, RickC said:

I wouldn't put oil in it that wont help the smoking .  Very slow on the biting point at those revs too, mine would have been off down the road,

 

Have you been playing with the needle and the A/F mix screws ? 

 

Put everything g back to factory and start again.

 

What % fuel are you using  

Ahh I only put a drop of oil down the chamber for the first start that’s all! And yeah but once it’s hot and cleared out it’s like s#*t of a shovel! Yes I’ve had to play with the needles just to get it to run. I’ve read on this forum that the factory settings in the manual are way off and I’d does seem like it. 
 

I’m using fresh 25% nitro fuel which has been recommended to me on here as well. 
 

Once I get a new conrod and exhaust gaskets and put the engine back together I’ll put it to factory settings and see but I won’t hold my breath. I’m sure my issue has something to do with the exhaust gaskets melting but if the engine temp is reasonable and there is plenty of smoke, I’m not sure what I can do. Burnt my hand touching the exhaust after it had been running! Yet the engine I could touch fine!

 

Thanks all!  

[Lancerevo]

Hi , I bought a hyper 30 first  nitro last year ,started first time then I struggled to get it running at all . Has been sitting all winter with fuel in after reading a post from 1111 advising how to start I followed this advice and it fired first time . From what I remember if I every got it started it was all over the place and will need some tuning also read they will require a lot of tuning from factory,  hope this helps 

[samp97]

45 minutes ago, 1111 said:

 I broken connecting rod is from not enough oil lube. You need at least 15-18% oil lube.  The fuel you has % oil lube? . I suspect that you leaned it out too much to fast? Not good for a new engine or bashing.  Nitro engines need a lot of fuel. Another problem I see  is that  I didn't see a fuel filter. I suspect that you got junk stuck in the carb leaning it out during break in period. Also check to see that the clutch was assembled correct. Something is binding (Brake, loose flywheel loose clutch nut something) . It should have took off faster than that?  Never expect a RTR to be built right from the start. Read the engine tuning manual and re set the carb back to factory start settings on both needles and add a fuel filter after you make sure the carb is not blocked.

 

When starting a new engine put a few drops of after run oil inside the engine and down the carb opening. Turn it over several times without the plug  and when ready to start put the plug back in and back it off 1/4 turn from tight. Prime the engine to get fuel to the carb and start the engine usually by blocking the exhaust  pipe until you see it spray up and out the carb. Then ignite the glow plug and start engine . It should pop off and run. Then tighten glow plug while engine is running.  You may need to adjust the idle up to get engine to run. There is no need to pre heat the engine. You only need to do this a few times until engine is broke in after that  you don't need to loosen glow plug to start.

 

 when buying fuel you should read the ingredients. Oil lube ,nitro and  blend of oil lube. NOT the % of nitro. Nitro is power. Oil lube is engine life.

I can see a fuel filter on the side of the tank? Surely the amount of smoke indicates a high level of lubrication? Even when it clears up it is still leaving a nice trail behind it, its not even WOT too? 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by samp97

[samp97]

3 minutes ago, 1111 said:

You should have a fuel filter from the tank to the engine. A line from the exhaust to the tank (pressure line) All the smoke indicates is  that your burning the fuel right.

Looks to have a fuel filter in the image, I've circled it, it seems to match the online images too. I thought the nitro burnt clean, the oil additive is what creates the smoke? I'm not challenging your answer it just seems conflicting to everything else you read online, what's the best way to tell if its getting enough lube or not? 

[Joshua223]

47 minutes ago, 1111 said:

 I broken connecting rod is from not enough oil lube. You need at least 15-18% oil lube.  The fuel you has % oil lube? . I suspect that you leaned it out too much to fast? Not good for a new engine or bashing.  Nitro engines need a lot of fuel. Another problem I see  is that  I didn't see a fuel filter. I suspect that you got junk stuck in the carb leaning it out during break in period. Also check to see that the clutch was assembled correct. Something is binding (Brake, loose flywheel loose clutch nut something) . It should have took off faster than that?  Never expect a RTR to be built right from the start. Read the engine tuning manual and re set the carb back to factory start settings on both needles and add a fuel filter after you make sure the carb is not blocked.

 

When starting a new engine put a few drops of after run oil inside the engine and down the carb opening. Turn it over several times without the plug  and when ready to start put the plug back in and back it off 1/4 turn from tight. Prime the engine to get fuel to the carb and start the engine usually by blocking the exhaust  pipe until you see it spray up and out the carb. Then ignite the glow plug and start engine . It should pop off and run. Then tighten glow plug while engine is running.  You may need to adjust the idle up to get engine to run. There is no need to pre heat the engine. You only need to do this a few times until engine is broke in after that  you don't need to loosen glow plug to start.

Hi there!

 

Im using Optmix RTR 25 which has an oil content of 15%.  The engine simply will not run any richer than this without flooding as soon as the throttle is opened even slightly (as you saw in the beginning of the video actually). Once it finally gets moving, it’s off the line pretty quick! Not silly fast because as I said both the low end and the high end needles are set rich. Oh, there is a fuel filter fitted! Even though it’s this rich, it still got very hot the first few times I ran it to break it in. As soon as the temps got too high, I shut the engine off and left the piston BDC. I’ve checked the clutch, brakes etc and everything is fine. The flywheel was also very tight but is now off due to the dismantle. Honestly once it had moved, it’d move off the line pretty quick. Carb is currently off as the engine is dismantled and it’s all clean,  nothing sticking etc and I’d already checked the servos to make sure they worked correctly and weren’t touching anything, slowing them down. 
 

The engine wasn’t actually cold when starting in the vid, it had been running a couple minutes prior. I didn’t preheat it but did back off the glow plug about a 1/4 turn just to help starting before tightening it like you suggested actually! Can’t do much now until the conrod gets here...

When I took the backplate off there was a decent amount of oil in there so I’m not sure lack of oil caused it but I really don’t know. I have oil stains on my driveway from where it moved off from! Coming from the exhaust. 
 

I hope all of that made sense! If there is anything else you could think of that might have caused this? I’ve been searching forum posts for hours trying to find a solution!!

 

Thanks 1111!

[Joshua223]

This is when warmed up, only blipping throttle but you can see it moves well and is nice and free!

 

-Josh

[samp97]

2 minutes ago, 1111 said:

Get a close up? I don't see it. If you have one then check it and make sure it's clean. check the carb too.  The broken rod is from not enough oil lube.

Could it be a manufacturing defect such as the oil galleries not being aligned or something like that? Just seems very odd to me, there is so much smoke, if the smoke only indicates fuel being burnt, doesn't the fuel carry the oil, so it indicated a lot of lube, right? 

[samp97]

7 minutes ago, 1111 said:

Get a close up? I don't see it. If you have one then check it and make sure it's clean. check the carb too.  The broken rod is from not enough oil lube. I don't know what kind of oil you put in the engine too start?  Only use after run oil.

Circled again 

[Joshua223]

Hope this helps. I checked and there were no bubbles before or after the fuel filter either. 

[1111]

 I would check  it and the carb too for any blockage. Take off the pressure line and fuel line and blow hard into the pressure line . You should see a stream of fuel come out on the fuel line. . You can check the carb too. Open the carb all way and hook up the fuel lie to the carb and blow into the pressure line. You should see a stream of fuel come out the spray nozel.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by 1111

[Joshua223]

Be that as it may, it’s suitable for running in and is perfectly clean. I’ve replaced all fuel lines and checked for blockages or air leaks (non found unfortunately). 

[locky]

The Hyper VS comes with a fuel filter as standard. The Optifuel RTR has been said to be smokey. I've been using Optifuel race blend without issues. I shouldnt worry about oil content imo. The conrod issue could be from poor manufacture. I assume the engine is starting from cold in the video and then as it warmed up it began to run better. You say that that the exhaust gaskets melted, so is there any exhaust leakage around the gaskets? If you dont have a temp gun then I recommend using one as a guide, you dont want temps above 300F for sustained periods.  I have a STS30 engine that runs really poorly until it gets above 200F and then it flys. 

[Joshua223]

3 minutes ago, locky said:

The Hyper VS comes with a fuel filter as standard. The Optifuel RTR has been said to be smokey. I've been using Optifuel race blend without issues. I shouldnt worry about oil content imo. The conrod issue could be from poor manufacture. I assume the engine is starting from cold in the video and then as it warmed up it began to run better. You say that that the exhaust gaskets melted, so is there any exhaust leakage around the gaskets? If you dont have a temp gun then I recommend using one as a guide, you dont want temps above 300F for sustained periods.  I have a STS30 engine that runs really poorly until it gets above 200F and then it flys. 

I’m using a calibrated thermocouple to check engine temps to prevent possible errors or anomalies. When it’s cold, the exhaust gaskets weren’t leaking but I couldn’t test when hot without burning myself! It did shut down quickly by blocking the stinger though so I’m not too sure on that one, hence new gaskets needed too! It’s what’s caused that I’m wondering about... that might be a side effect of what’s happened? Or a cause? That’s why I’m here!

 

Thanks all!

[Joshua223]

6 minutes ago, 1111 said:

 I rarely use a temp gun. If you use the manufacture needle setting and there is no blockage in the fuel line then the engine should be running rich. The temp should be above 200F to run and below 250F I guess that the exhaust gasket is leaking causing the lean run problem by not keeping good pressure to the tank.  Use some RTV gasket silicone copper color and seal the exhaust to boost the pressure. When you do get it running again it's ok to adjust the idle1/4 tur more to keep the engine running. The engine should still run with the factory high setting rich. I always go 1/2-1 turn open more on my engines and they still run .Just slower. You can change the clutch springs to engage at a lower RPM which is better.

So that could be the answer then? When the exhaust gets hot it could leak and lean itself out maybe? 

[locky]

You sound like you have a logical way of sorting problems. Nitro does take a while to get experience and can be frustrating. An infrared temp gun will prevent burnt fingers instead of a thermocouple. I found one useful when I started but with more experience it is not so important as your ears know what the engine is doing.  Engine temps will vary depending on ambient temp, how long running at wot, your needle settings, tarmac or grass, needle settings. If your breaking in a new engine then you dot want to be on full throttle for very long, just blips, with richer settings, for a few tanks. The engine temp should reduce after wot runs when idling by about a degree every few seconds.

Edited April 18, 2020 by locky

[Joshua223]

1 minute ago, locky said:

You sound like you have a logical way of sorting problems. Nitro does take a while to get experience and can be frustrating. An infrared temp gun will prevent burnt fingers instead of a thermocouple. I found one useful when I started but with more experience it is not so important as your ears know what the engine is doing.  Engine temps will vary depending on ambient temp, how long running at wot, your needle settings, tarmac or grass, needle settings. If your breaking in a new engine then you dot want to be on full throttle for very long, just blips, with richer settings, for a few tanks. The engine temp should reduce after wot runs when idling by about a degree every second.

Thanks! Hopefully then a new conrod and gaskets should sort it out! Can’t wait to actually have fun with this car after all this! Tbh, troubleshooting and tinkering with the engines are why I’ve grown so fond of nitros! I don’t necessarily want something that just works, and love the maintenance that comes with them! I’m not going to lie, I was hoping that I’d actually get to run the car for more than a couple minutes before having to do this, but never mind eh?

[Joshua223]

If, by chance, the fuel line between the carb and the fuel tank ran a little too close to the exhaust, could that theoretically affect anything?
All fuel lines were replaced and done one at a time to ensure that they all went in the same place, same length and same routing but I could swap the exhaust line and the fuel line routing over so that the fuel line isn’t running alongside the exhaust. 

[samp97]

2 hours ago, 1111 said:

 As long as there is no leak you're fine.  The length of the lines are not that critical. I prefer the fuel line a little long in case you flip over you have some time to flip it back upright again.  If you swap the lines you won't get the engine to start.

I think what he means is swap the routing of the lines to move them away from the exhaust. I'm pretty sure the issue is just a manufacturing defect 🤔