Petition against mandatory speed limiters/black boxes

[GMballistic]

I've copied and pasted this from another forum I'm on. 
Going to need a fair bit more interest before anyone takes any notice but still if you don't try....

Hello

Some of you might have seen this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47715415
I would ask you all to please sign this petition below:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/251938

New vehicles from 2022 are set to have mandatory speed limiters and black boxes, if you don't want this to happen then try to act against it. It takes less than a minute to sign.

 

[mond]

If only we get could manditory use of indicators from German car drivers, we'd be sorted. 

[tomzac66]

I drive a hybrid and hated by every driver, so yes I’ve signed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mydoddy69]

End of the day your only allowed to drive at the speed limit so why this is a problem I don’t understand. I think it’s a good idea to be fair. There bringing in new speed limits where we live to reduce speed to 20mph, great idea imo considering the amount of schools and public parks etc. If your not breaking the law why would these be an issue ? Might even help lower the ever increasing insurance bills as well as save lives etc 

[stonedef]

I'm not fussed about it, as my works van has a tracker and is speed limited to 68mph so I'm use to it

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Jumper]

The best way to stop this is not to buy a new car with one in. Speed limits are already way too low and speed cameras everywhere are getting ridiculous now. 

 

People will get round this anyway as the have done with german cars limited to 155mph and japanese cars limited to 112mph. They are just finding more ways to justify there pointless jobs and continue to erode peoples freedom, while getting more money in fines etc. 

 

[yoodoo]

All for limiters. I drive a works vehicle thats limited to 68MPH , its a pain if you want to overtake but apart from that its a great idea. I live on a 40MPH road and there are probable 20% of the cars that do the speed limit. 

If these are fitted to all cars it will stop the knobheads and boy/girl racers from putting our insurance up.

J

[Snfu]

What happens when you're stuck behind some idiot that's doing 40 in the 60 on a bright sunny dry day, you boot it to overtake,she/he doesn't like being overtaken. They boot it, blocking you into oncoming traffic. The cars that've been stuck behind the idiot fill in the gap you were in. I've had this happen several times ?.  How do the miraculous electronic devices get around that? 

[Jumper]

5 hours ago, Snfu said:

What happens when you're stuck behind some idiot that's doing 40 in the 60 on a bright sunny dry day, you boot it to overtake,she/he doesn't like being overtaken. They boot it, blocking you into oncoming traffic. The cars that've been stuck behind the idiot fill in the gap you were in. I've had this happen several times ?.  How do the miraculous electronic devices get around that? 

I doubt this will get past at all tbh for this very reason. speed limiters can be very dangerous as can black boxes. They dont stop people from crashing, the create road rage and frustration. I had a black box in my car for the first 6 months of driving and it was so dangerous i decided to pay more for insurance and loose the 6 months of the first years ncb and not have one.  

 

Also very few crashes happen because of speed, the mostly occur from people not paying attention or lack of experience driving slower makes you pay less attention and doesnt give you more experience either.  As for insurance increases in insurance premiums, i would say the vast majority of it it because people are making claims for whiplash etc. I have written off my car and the pole i hit costing £11,000 to my insurance, a guy from work had a minor bump with a taxi which caused £300 of damage between the two cars, but the taxi driver claimed whiplash and it end up costing his insurance double what my right off had. 

 

Neither of these crashes would have been avoided if the was a speed limiter on the car either, in my case i crashed at 40mph on a road thats 60mph. In the other case the crash was at very low speed in traffic during rush hour on a dual carriageway.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Jumper

[mond]

How is a black box dangerous? It just records the last 30 seconds worth of sensor readings. 

1 hour ago, Jumper said:

 

 

 driving slower makes you pay less attention and doesnt give you more experience either. 

 

Literally no driving instructor would agree. You drive in accordance with the road conditions, within whatever limits are set. The speed limit isn't a target. I live in rural area and nearly every accident is some idiot doing 50 up a single track country lane. The last accident I was in was caused by a guy, predictably in a Golf, doing probably 40 around a blind bend with ice on the road. 

 

There's better ways to deal with dangerous drivers - make people retake the test every 5 years, especially those over 70. 

[Jumper]

Black box was very dangerous because having to drive at the speed limit everywhere instead of with the flow of traffic created large ques and people would dangerously overtake, also encourages you to run yellow lights, cut corners and roundabouts. 

 

When people drive slowly in traffic they are constantly on their phones doing makeup, I see it every day, they wouldn't be doing that if they were doing the speed limit. 

 

Tbh retaking the driving test would not help in the case of a younger driver, although it may in the case of an older one. The driving test and lessons are a joke tbh. I only had 12 lessons and a passed first time and what was supposed to be the hardest test centre in the area. I hadn't even done an emergency stop until the day of the test. You also don't have to drive in a motorway. 

 

Everyone seems to think we are in America and they can lane hog like a moron. The speed cameras on the motorway create massive traffic jams for not reason. And instead of making the road safer they just catch loads of people at night when the road is empty doing 80mph when it's perfectly safe to do so. It's just a money making scheme they literally couldn't care less if they save anyone as long as they get more budget to expand the big brother network. Meanwhile there are pot holes in the outside lane that can bend your rim and when they fix them it takes them 6 months and they further reduce the speed and create even more ques. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Jumper

[mond]

5 minutes ago, Jumper said:

Black box was very dangerous because having to drive at the speed limit everywhere instead of with the flow of traffic created large ques and people would dangerously overtake, also encourages you to run yellow lights, cut corners and roundabouts. 

 

That literally makes no sense. You're saying you routinely drive over the speed limit?

[Jumper]

1 minute ago, mond said:

That literally makes no sense. You're saying you routinely drive over the speed limit?

Everybody does every day don't you drive? 

[GMballistic]

I'm not here to argue with anyone and posted the original petition to make people aware of it allowing them to make their own decision as to whether they sign it. 

 

I will say though that anyone that says they don't speed or never go over the posted speed limits imho is talking absolute rubbish to put it politely. 

I'll hold my hands up and admit that I speed every single day, ...but not in built up areas (20, 30mph zones) and never without my full attention to the road conditions & other road users. 

 

Personally (imho) speeding is not the problem, in fact as some people have stated at times being able to speed is necessary and people driving too slowly in a posted speed limit zone can be dangerous too. 

 

The problems as I see them on the roads is lack of attention (using mobile phones, vaping etc), situational awareness (driving too close, hogging an outside lane etc), consideration (to road conditions, weather etc), manners (indicating before maneuvering, forcing others to brake just so you can get one car ahead etc) and empathy towards other road users (letting people merge safely etc).

 

I'd rather see harsher punishments for people speeding in residential areas with national speed limits and motorway speed limits abolished like some German autobahn roads. More money should be being put into putting more Police patrol cars/Police personal on the roads and less into speed cameras etc so that they can actual start to enforce some of the rules effectively (make judgement calls on prosecutions that only face to face interactions can).

 

For example: giving someone (first time offender) a warning for being a few mph over the limit (not excessive speed) whilst they had a reasonable excuse like they were trying to get to a hospital for their pregnant partner ~ a speed camera would just penalise that person regardless.

 

For example: like mobile phone laws; I see people everyday driving along with their eyes looking down at their laps because they're texting or looking at their mobile phone for some other reason. Never any Police around to stop them it seems but plenty of speed cameras around to catch people doing 4-5mph+ over the limit. 

 

[mond]

On 12/04/2019 at 22:15, Jumper said:

Everybody does every day don't you drive? 

Yes I drive and no, I do not speed. Ever.

[rushboy2004]

On 12/04/2019 at 22:15, Jumper said:

Everybody does every day don't you drive? 

 

No, but your like the guy that tried to over take me in a 30 zone early today nearly crashing head on in to a bus so you could get to the next set of red traffic lights!

 

As for limiters - I regularly use the speed limiter (20 zones) or cruise control for 30/40 zones in my Mondeo. Makes life much easier and safer as I am not constantly looking at the speed

[Jumper]

1 hour ago, rushboy2004 said:

 

No, but your like the guy that tried to over take me in a 30 zone early today nearly crashing head on in to a bus so you could get to the next set of red traffic lights!

 

As for limiters - I regularly use the speed limiter (20 zones) or cruise control for 30/40 zones in my Mondeo. Makes life much easier and safer as I am not constantly looking at the speed

not really. i would never overtake a car in a 30 zone....... and no i dont bother overtaking people to get ahead all the time either. I too use cruise control in my mondeo, but none of the cars i have now have it. Also in built up areas where you are stopping and going all the time, turning it on and off all the time isnt really great, unless its the newer controls that follow the speed of the car in front to a stop, but then that does work on a manual car. 

[bertberr]

Mandatory speed limits will do little to prevent accidents, particularly on dual carriageway & motorways with the national speed limit.  They are already the safest type of road by far, and by far the majority of motorway accidents are caused by the factors alluded to by GM above.  Better driver training, far more traffic police and far greater penalties for dangerous driving would all have a significantly greater effect on accident rates. 

 

I drive between 60-80K miles per annum, so I see a lot of idiots in my travels.  99% of those are driving erratically, aggressively, selfishly but very few of those are also speeding, though I'd say there is a higher % of speeding transgressors in 30/40/50 limits on single lane roads than on multi lane roads with the national speed limit.  I drive everything from a Peugeot Boxer van to Range Rover SVR's, and due to it being my job I'm very aware of speed limits - if I get a ban I'm out of a job.  There's something mildly ironic about driving down the motorway in a 567bhp £120K behemoth at 73mph...  But needs must.

 

Having two young kids, I'm fanatical about my speed in built up areas, near shops, schools, residential areas.  In fact I've driven along quite a few 30mph limit roads where in fact the safer speed is really nearer 20mph, or 50 limits where a 30 or 40 limit would be more appropriate.  That's where common sense, experience and respect for others comes to the fore, not a device that lets you drive at any speed you like in any weather up to a pre-determined limit, even in situations where a lower speed is far more appropriate and far safer.

 

However, I wouldn't be that upset in principal if limiters were imposed and activated for 20/30/40 limits, as generally you don't often have the need to pass people on these types of road, and it would stop the odd idiot racing down the 40 limit road at 60+ mph.  But in more rural areas, with far higher %s of single lane roads with 50 and 60mph limits, and many more agricultural vehicles, speed limiters would be downright dangerous.  When completing a safe overtake, there are any number of variables that can impact upon your manoeuvre, that weren't apparent when you initiated the pass, the principal one being some stupid idiot in the car you're passing accelerating as you're alongside.  It happens unfortunately, and anybody that thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.  This is where speed limiters could cause an accident, of course, there are others, but this is the most obvious situation.

 

Having said all of that, I'd be surprised if we do go down that route; can you imagine the effect on speed camera revenues...???

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mond]

How would a limiter on a single track road be dangerous? I live on a single track road, I have four farms as neighbours and see farm traffic daily. I also see people every day also using my road like they are Richard Burns despite it being a 30 and 40 limit. They are dangerous. 

 

I think you guys who are against them need to go back and read the proposed devices. They just make a driver adhere to the local limit and it can be overridden in certain circumstances. If you're a sensible road user who sticks to the limits then this device will not affect you. It will however catch those who routinely speed. If you do routinely speed, you're the problem.

[bertberr]

LOL... you are aware there is a difference between single lane roads, i.e. one defined/marked lane in either direction, and a single track road (which was never even mentioned, at least not in my post above)???  

 

Yes, if some idiot was routinely overtaking (almost impossible by definition) on a single track road, then I'd be barging you out the way to tell him/her what a complete lunatic they were.

 

Long, single lane, rural roads, like you get a lot of in the east, lincs etc, are ripe to overtake (safely) on if you come up to someone going below or significantly below the legal limit.  The problem, as was clearly spelled out above, is when the driver of that slower vehicle has a bad attitude, chip on the shoulder etc etc, and decides that they're going to try to hold you out in that lane.  With a limiter set at an arbitrary rate, you potentially have a serious accident, without one, you simply accelerate a bit more and move safely back into your lane.  Not rocket science to understand really.

[mond]

The proposed device does not limit you if you want to exceed the local limit...

[mydoddy69]

Wow just read some of these posts my advice would be don’t worry about limiters or black boxes instead worry about your lack of patience and common sense ? sounds like some of you need anger management ?

[Nitroholic]

I have some serious issues with speed limiters ... and they are already starting to creep into motorcycling in a very bad way.

 

It's not that they limit the top speed....it's the way they limit that speed. The Japanese appraoch is to hard wire into the speedo sensors, or to limit revs to ensure max speed is curtailed in top gear. It's also reducing speed in all the gears, and the acceleration through the gears. That's not a good way to do things....as it makes the whole thing slow at all speeds when you need a kick of acceleration. I don't care if I can't do 180 mph .... but I do care if I can't get from 40-60 in a hurry when I need to as a result.

 

I also really DO NOT agree with imposing 20mph speed limits to make pedestrians safer .... it is basically telling people that rather than looking where they are going and crossing safely, the solution is to slow the vehicles to a crawl so you can step in front of them without fear of injury. I regularly see idiots wandering into the road without looking ..or worse...looking at you expecting you to stop for them because they can't be bothered to cross in a gap. Or the muppets who decide walking 50m to a pedestrian crossing is too much effort....and just cross where they are instead. The solution is to educate the people to behave safely...not eliminate the risk by punishing the road user. Worse...the number of times I see idiot parents hauling their kids across the road through busy traffic becuase they can't be bothered to wait for a gap, or use a crossing. They give no thought to what they are teaching their children...

 

As far as the OP and the petition goes, I am not a fan of any mandatory control device. Ones pushed as 'safety' inevitably end up either costing money through stealth taxation, or misused as control and monitoring devices. I live in London...and already have to put up with Siddiq Khan taxing car owners in the name of 'eco friendliness' where now you have to buy a new vehicle or pay £12.50 on top of the congestion charge to drive in the city. He is going to spend the cash on public transport...which also went up in price .... and non specific eco plans...which usually mean bad news for someone. Of course, we should all eat Tofu and cycle everywhere...coz cycling is great...except for the ***** who ignore traffic lights, one way streets, run over people on the pavements, cycle at night with no lights and think they can do as they please untouched by our Police force who have largely been replaced with cameras...as our Eco Mayor won't pay for the real ones. Hence the black box approach being popular in certain circles. The black box could easily be a means of monitoring, measuring, enforcing and tracking. So much cheaper than actual Police enforcing laws. That's a lesson learnt from speed cameras by nobody in power. Traffic enforcement by camera has reduced Police on the road and brought in greater revenue. But nobody is safer as a result. I have no reason to think the black box idea will be any better.

 

Besides...all you got to do is buy a car in Bulgaria, import it to the UK, don't re-register it...and the cameras, ANPR, and all the rest cannot touch you. Get a ticket and they will post it to some address in Sofia, and you can carry on ignoring the rules. Works right now...will probably work in the future.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Nitroholic
edited for many many typos

[Oh How Original]

On 12/04/2019 at 22:15, Jumper said:

Everybody does every day don't you drive? 

 

Don't include me in that.

I have more respect for my fellow road users and my own life.

[GMballistic]

On 15/04/2019 at 20:48, mydoddy69 said:

Wow just read some of these posts my advice would be don’t worry about limiters or black boxes instead worry about your lack of patience and common sense ? sounds like some of you need anger management ?

Tbh I think you're talking rubbish as this has been a quite civil discussion between most members so no "anger management" needed as far as I can see.

 

In fact, considering one member in a post has tarred everyone with the same brush who drives a car from a specific country (almost as good as racism that one) and another member has accused someone else of driving like a lunatic overtaking in a residential area when they don't even know that person or how they drive I'm surprised it hasn't kicked off properly.