bosco72 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 T2boats thank u 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle of Wight Basher Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 2 hours ago, hamradioguy said: Thanks very much t2boats, I cannot find a 3660 3800kv 120A combo (does 36 mean 36mm dia and 60mm is length ?) But this is for sale on here and I wondered if that would be suitable for the outlaw http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/ET0425/etronix-photon-sc-2-1fw-system-w-3000kv-motor-80a-esc I really hate not knowing much about brushless stuff, but i am trying to learn FYI here's the system that comes in the brushless Outlaw, I find it's more than enough on 2S, so should be a blast on 3S https://www.modelsport.co.uk/etronix-photon-2-1w-system-with-13-0r-2950kv-motor-45a-esc/rc-car-products/383631 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, hamradioguy said: Thanks very much t2boats, I cannot find a 3660 3800kv 120A combo (does 36 mean 36mm dia and 60mm is length ?) But this is for sale on here and I wondered if that would be suitable for the outlaw http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/ET0425/etronix-photon-sc-2-1fw-system-w-3000kv-motor-80a-esc I really hate not knowing much about brushless stuff, but i am trying to learn I was the same to be honest just a couple of years back. I raced electric a long long time ago as a teenager, then went into Nitro and Petrol RC. Dumped the temperamental nitro and only in the last 3 to 4yrs got back into electric after hearing of the advancements in electrics. I'm still picking up bits of useful information, I keep learning new things, so I still feel relatively new to it all myself. Mine wasnt bought as a combo, something I've just thrown together. The GoolRC motors I've bought through eBay from various shops, same as the esc's and lipo's. The following is some points I've picked up over time which I'm sure you have too: the kv rating is the speed (rpm) the motor will produce per 1volt up its backside. The other number (for example 3660) is, like you say, the dimensions of the motor can, so it's 36mm diameter and 60mm length. Generally as the larger the can - the lower the kv rating (which generates more torque by spinning up faster than a motor with a higher kv rating - which would ultimately give a higher top speed). However, the larger motors can also have higher voltages put through them by using higher amp esc's (check out some largescale electric combos!).. this helps compensate that kv loss and brings its speed up. I have a little ruling when I'm setting up a car, if I'm wanting to use a 3S lipo and the car is fit for that purpose (scale, on or offroad) then I'll plumb for a 120A esc, if I'm using 2S then anything less than 120A will suit, like 60, 80 etc.. As I'm using 4S in my Hyper 7 then I've gone for a 150a esc. When I first started dabbling with brushless I tried using a 60a leopard esc on 3S - it didn't like it for more than 10mins and went into thermal shut down. Ya live n learn eh! I didn't want to start changing the pinion size as I didn't want to lose the speed, so I'd then opt for a higher esc ampage. When I got the Outlaw after quickly chewing things over I decided to push its boundary's a little and see if an off-road rc like that would crack 50mph. So I needed to get a higher speed motor which still had that nice broad band of torque suitable for off-road too. I chose the same motor I'd fitted to a Viper (3800kv 3660) as I was already familiar with its performance and knew 3S would suit it, which also meant fitting a 120a esc. It didn't dissapoint... it's acceleration is somewhat lairy and needed to be tamed, hence the addition of a rear anti role bar. But it surpassed the target in the end, I'm chuffed to bits with it, but now it's time to hit the dirt once again where it belongs. Edited July 7, 2017 by t2boats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 4 hours ago, bosco72 said: T2boats thank u No worries! It's totally changed the car, it can accelerate now without lifting that front wheel and wandering off in any direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco72 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 It's called piano wire that u used right....I was going g to buy the hot racing swaybar for the yeti looks the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, bosco72 said: It's called piano wire that u used right....I was going g to buy the hot racing swaybar for the yeti looks the same Hmm not familiar with the Yeti sway bar... I just bought a stainless steel rod which was 300mm length but 3.2mm diameter. Measured things up, bent one corner and inserted it through the rear link arms and pivot points (as seen in the video/pictures on the other thread). The only awkward part was having to bend the rod while in situ on the other side. Then I did a few test runs up n down a road to find the best position for the connection of the short arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco72 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I'll see if my hobby store has it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamradioguy Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 t2boats thank you for the help and advice, I take it all on board and now know more about brushless electronics for it. So I am making a shopping list up to convert my Outlaw to brushless but before I go in to that let me show what I found last nite. I have a neu brushless motor and wanted to see if it would fit in the Outlaw so I took the standard motor out and found that it was pushed up tight on the drive shaft and rubbing on it. I always thought the car was hard to push back and forth on wheels but I put this down to the magnets in the motor, now I see that was wrong. The problem was the metal sleeve which is on the motor, it was properly located on the motor (peg in hole) but it was still hitting the shaft (pictures attached) so I removed the sleeve and bolted the motor back in and there is clearance now but not much, under 1mm. But it pushes back and forth freely now, so I guess that was part to blame for my over heating problem the other day. As Johninderby pointed out the 1060esc does have thermal protection so I am glad the esc is still ok so I have been thinking about trying to find a suitable motor to run with it and the specs state over 18T or low rpm but i also need one capable of high voltage (3s), I was looking at the HPI GT550 because its rated at 14v but I believe it is about 17T so will still stress the esc too much. I would prefer to find a brushed motor rather than going over to brushless. If I have to go brushless I am considering :- https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-ezrun-wp-sc8-120a-bl-esc-1-10-1-8-waterproof/rc-car-products/380328 https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-3660-Motor-Brushless-Waterproof-Sensorless-18-110-RC-Car-Part-380033002600KV-p-1110647.html?rmmds=mywishlist (3800) I cant find 1 3660 3800kv motor in the UK and I will need a pinion, there's loads on ebay all different, do you know of a suitable one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 That's great you've found the problem causing the friction, I never noticed that in mine when it ran the stock brushed motor...though I must admit I did notice the sleeve on the motor as the Viper also had the same brushed can too. But mine didn't make contact with the shaft coupling like yours has?! Anyhow, that's good it's gone The motor you've found is exactly the same as the one I'm using (just a different brand). Personally I'd go brushless over brushed nowadays, since changing it I haven't looked back to be honest, it's leagues apart. They have a 5mm shaft too so you'd need either a 48DP 5mm 17t or 23t pinion to suit (whichever motor mount you're running in the gearbox). Plenty available through eBay in the UK - but myself and John had to cut them down so they'd fit within the tiny geabox. Easily done though! In my other Outlaw (SCT conversion) I've fitted a GoolRC 4300kv 3650 motor with a 120A esc, it's still on 17t. I'll probably stick with that as it'll be quick enough and a hand full as it's 2WD now. That's a motor option you could consider as it's the 3.12mm shaft size, so your stock 17t pinion would fit. The esc you've chosen will do the job, best go for 120Amp, you won't have problems with a nice rating like that for the 3660 motor and 3S lipo. It'll shift! I tend to stick to the same brand of esc as I've got a program card to suit all then. So the one currently in my Outlaw is a HobbyWing 120A, my old card for the HobbyWing 60a talks to it no problems. Plus I also use SkyRC Toro esc's in other models, and they also have their own orange program card. I try to avoid buying another esc which I don't have a program card for or I'd end up having to manually program it - it's like doing morse code on the little red reset button haha.. it's a bit tedious! Hope the above helps anyway, keep us all informed how you get on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamradioguy Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Yeah that's a massive help mate. I found a 3650 motor on the same website and its pretty much the same price as the 3660 3660 - https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-3660-Motor-Brushless-Waterproof-Sensorless-18-110-RC-Car-Part-380033002600KV-p-1110647.html? 3650 - https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-3650-Motor-Brushless-Waterproof-Sensorless-110-RC-Car-Part-5900430039002300KV-p-1110570.html? I like the fact that the 3650 is a straight swap and no messing with finding pinions. So if I have this right and I probably dont lol! the 3650 4300kv should be faster than the 3660 3800kv if both on the 17T pinion but it will have less torque but if both on the 23T pinion the 3660 3800kv would be faster because it has more torque to be able to spin the bigger pinion faster ?? Last question I promise, for now ;o) How would the stock motor compare to the 3650 4300kv if both were on the stock pinion and 3s A ) about the same C ) 3650 a bit faster C ) 3650 considerably faster D ) OMG your kidding right I can pay for quick shipping for the motor so it should come in about 5-7 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Errrm... D) without shadow of doubt! Honestly it's poles apart from the stock brushed motor. Just think of Torque as the grunt, it's ability to pull effectively from idle up through its rev range quickly. And yes, the 4300kv using the same pinion would spin faster giving a higher top end speed than the 3800kv when using the same 3S lipo. But with regards to torque for acceleration compared between the two can sizes, you'd be hard pressed to see the difference... I can't really tell anyway and I've used both motors in the same car. They accelerate like a scalded cat so quite hard to compare. Both would make your Outlaw hit considerably high speeds for a primarily off-road vehicle. I've done a few videos over the last year showing various setups, changes I've made and some speed tests. Using the 3800kv motor with a 23t pinion, 120Amp esc and 3S lipo it's notched up 50mph! It's tyres let it down though for that sort of thing, I just wanted to push its limits as a test. But then again, it's not meant for screaming up n down tarmac, or it'd have lower profile tyres for that. I like the stock tyres though, they're great for off-road where I use mine so it'll be keeping those boots! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerlycarrot9 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Greetings everyone! New owner of Outlaw Brushless here Also it's my first hobby grade RC car It's been about two weeks since i got it and i love it! It's got really good speed but at the same time it's a good crawler as well. One thing i'm curious about however is the fact that the front right wheel goes up everytime i press the throttle a little harder. Is there a way to fix this? Maybe change the position of the front shocks? Also both front wheels seems to stop spinning a little sooner than the rear ones. Is that because of the differential? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco72 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) Westerlycarrot9 that's called torq twist.a better rear swaybar will help go up a little on the page and see what T2boats did.im looking at the hotracing rear bar for the yeti Edited July 9, 2017 by bosco72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerlycarrot9 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 hour ago, bosco72 said: Westerlycarrot9 that's called torq twist.a better rear swaybar will help go up a little on the page and see what T2boats did.im looking at the hotracing rear bar for the yeti I suppose you're talking about the front wheel issue right? So i basically have to place a sway bar (metal bar basically) between the shock holders right? I did see some photos on the previous pages with stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco72 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 yes the stock one is to weak I emailed the company all they said that they would look at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerlycarrot9 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 3 hours ago, bosco72 said: yes the stock one is to weak I emailed the company all they said that they would look at it Hm is an Anti Roll bar the same thing you're talking about? Also if i place something like isn't it going to reduce each shock's capability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADH66 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hi WesterlyCarrot9, Sounds like you're in the same boat as me. Just getting a grip of all the options and terms!! Seems they all paw the air under throttle, I consider it one of it's charms But it is defo a fairly flexible 'chassis' (what little of it there is) so mine will be strengthened soon too. I'll be watching for your results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerlycarrot9 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 2 hours ago, ADH66 said: Hi WesterlyCarrot9, Sounds like you're in the same boat as me. Just getting a grip of all the options and terms!! Seems they all paw the air under throttle, I consider it one of it's charms But it is defo a fairly flexible 'chassis' (what little of it there is) so mine will be strengthened soon too. I'll be watching for your results! Don't get me wrong i love it when it happens Well first i have to find a place to find that sway bar Should i place it between the rear shocks or the front ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADH66 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, westerlycarrot9 said: Don't get me wrong i love it when it happens Well first i have to find a place to find that sway bar Should i place it between the rear shocks or the front ones? LOL well I dunno. Both? My plan is to get the FTX front brace for the Vantage I think it is, again listed on a previous page, and some of the battery tray braces to add one to the rear top suspension mounts. Prob plastic ones to add bracing without completely removing flex for hard landings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC4WD fan Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Been looking at one of these as a fun cheap something to mess around with I have a question sorry if it's been asked or talked about already I don't have the patience to look through all 33 pages it says in the description that it has a 550 motor can you put a 540 motor in instead ? and if so is there any parts you need to get ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) A standard 540 is a straight swap. No additional parts needed. The pinion is 3.17 mm. However the 540 would have to have plenty or torque and would recommend a cooling fan. The stock ESC isn't the greatest. I mean it works OK on 2s but switching to a more efficient ESC would be a good ides. John Edited July 10, 2017 by johninderby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerlycarrot9 Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 Actually could someone link a photo of the bar that i need to place? I'm a little lost right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2boats Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, westerlycarrot9 said: Actually could someone link a photo of the bar that i need to place? I'm a little lost right now If you're after a front anti role bar, the Outlaw shares the Carnage front end, so have a search on the FTX website or MS for the Carnage front anti role bar - it'll bolt straight on! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC4WD fan Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 2 hours ago, johninderby said: A standard 540 is a straight swap. No additional parts needed. The pinion is 3.17 mm. However the 540 would have to have plenty or torque and would recommend a cooling fan. The stock ESC isn't the greatest. I mean it works OK on 2s but switching to a more efficient ESC would be a good ides. John Would a 35t motor and a HW 1060 ESC be any good ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Wouldn't be very fast. The stock motor is 15t and it isn't that fast. Would be more of a crawler. You can only use a 17t or 23t motor pinion so it does limit your motor options. I fitted a sensored BL system which lets me crawl as well as having decent speed. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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