How do Tamiya get away with it - Part II (the verdict?) & Lunchbox Reivew

[300bhp/ton]

For those who haven't read my other post, well I asked "How do Tamiya manage it/get away with it?" As on face value and spec sheets Tamiya's appear to represent low spec for fairly high money on a lot of their RC kits.

 

During the course of the conversation I was convinced I should personally sample a Tamiya as I hadn't owned one myself (although my brother and cousin had).

 

Anyhow, the long and short of it I bought myself a Tamiya Lunchbox as a Christmas present.

 

 

So the big question is, am I convinced?

 

And to be completely honest no. 

 

 

 

So before the hate mail starts, let me explain a little.

 

 

I bought the

Edited January 6, 2014 by 300bhp/ton

[Nitroholic]

Interesting write up .... and well done in my view.

 

It will upset some of the purists and lovers of the product, and will doubtless raise some eyebrows amongst people who want the LB to remain as it is forever for the benefit of reliving their childhood, but it does highlight what the thing actually is.

 

It's a 25 year old design being sold at current prices.

 

If Tamiya included a bearing set and decent shocks, then they could probably still get away with it....but.

 

For me, it's like owning a classic car. I used to own an old VW Beetle. You could spend thousands on them, but they would never be as fast or as good to drive as a modern car with basic brakes, basic suspension and heating that rarely worked. Windscreen washers driven from the spare wheel air pressure, exhaust heat exchangers for heat that flooded you with carbon monoxide when they rusted and so on. The thing had character, and was fun.....

 

But you wouldn't want it as your only form of transport.

 

I put Tamiya's in the same bracket. Quirky, old fashioned, fundamentally flawed when compared to the alternatives....but fun as long as it;s not all you have!

[oodboo]

Surely you knew this was a kit that was release in the 80s and has barely changed since. You say then be dissapointed by this but surely you were expecting this?

 

I can agree with you on the manual to an extent. As Tamia models are usually an introduction to RC for a lot of people then all the explainations you saw were lacking could be see as information overload to some. Especially considering there is very little you can change regarding setup out of the box. The manual for my xray xt8 was excellent and I learned a lot about how set up changes effect the handling of the car but this is a race bred truggy with a lot of scope to change the set up out of the box, so this info is needed. Not so on the basic tamiya models.

 

I don't mean to offend but having followed your previous topic about how do they get away with it I believe you went into this expecting dissapointment and possibly looking for it. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here.

 

Tamiya models need to be taken for what they are and what they offer and let's be honest the lunchbox is about as close to toy grade as hobby grade RCs get.

[jayuk022002]

I think if they had made it much better then I wouldn't have bought one myself.  It wouldn't be a lunchbox!

 

I like the fact that its basic, it makes it more fun to control and a good laugh especially when there is a few of you with them together

[53HRA]

No offence but i'm not going to read such a massive post.From scan reading it seems theres more negatives then postives anyway so no point...

 

Tamiya has been going for years,so has the Lunchbox.You're expecting way to much for a beginner RC.

 

Rant over.

Edited January 6, 2014 by 53HRA

[vrooom]

I think you expect too much from lunchbox.   it is a fun vechile.. nothing more.

[300bhp/ton]

I think you expect too much from lunchbox.   it is a fun vechile.. nothing more.

But the thing is, it isn't really priced at that level. As an RTR kit for

[AlphaZero]

A Lunchbox would simply not be a lunchbox if it handled well and had modern steering geometry etc, what can you really expect from a RC that was released in 1987 aimed at beginners. You have to remember it's a re-release it's not like its been available new for 27 years. Tamiya RC's simply are not aimed at you and they wont miss your business, it's a Tamiya thing, you wouldn't understand

[300bhp/ton]

A Lunchbox would simply not be a lunchbox if it handled well and had modern steering geometry etc, what can you really expect from a RC that was released in 1987 aimed at beginners. You have to remember it's a re-release it's not like its been available new for 27 years. Tamiya RC's simply are not aimed at you and they wont miss your business, it's a Tamiya thing, you wouldn't understand

Meant in good humour, but while reading your post, the only thing I could think of was:

 

 

Quote General Melchett from Blackadder Goes Forth:

 

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."

 

Maybe this sentiment truly sums up Tamiya kits better than anything I can objectively review

 

[vrooom]

People like originality...    So people like me always wanted lunchbox when they came out in beattles in 1989.   I always wanted one ever since.. its good job tamiya made lunchbox faithful to it 1987 release.  we can relive our childhood buying it and building it.   That what so good with Tamiya product. 

 

even in 1990, r/c cars aren't that good too.  (few expection but not accessible to average joe blogg like me)

[AlphaZero]

Meant in good humour, but while reading your post, the only thing I could think of was:

 

 

Quote General Melchett from Blackadder Goes Forth:

 

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."

 

Maybe this sentiment truly sums up Tamiya kits better than anything I can objectively review

 

Funny   however you seem to have completely missed my point

[300bhp/ton]

People like originality...    So people like me always wanted lunchbox when they came out in beattles in 1989.   I always wanted one ever since.. its good job tamiya made lunchbox faithful to it 1987 release.  we can relive our childhood buying it and building it.   That what so good with Tamiya product. 

 

even in 1990, r/c cars aren't that good too.  (few expection but not accessible to average joe blogg like me)

I get all this, but what I don't understand is, why could you not achieve the same thing if Tamiya had mildly evolved and updated the model?

 

It would still be a Lunchbox only better and not with a single extra negative.

[Quandry]

Tamiya have a vast range of models, to have engineers going through modernising everything and looking at everything from every angle just to make you happy is kind of unrealistic.  For general purpose bashing/carparks etc, they are probably fine.  Not everyone is a racer

 

I am building a Lunchbox with my daughter (11) and I am finding it a great introduction to RC for her and also general engineering concepts - for that purpose it is great.  While this recommendation may fall on deaf ears, I suggest you try a Super Hotshot build or Avante build, these are much more involved and satisfying from a builders perspective.  Building a Tamiya kit is like solving a puzzle, one piece at a time.  It gives you a real sense of satisfaction at the end but it is better for people who relish and enjoy the challenge of the build.   Believe it or not, there are some of us in the hobby that mainly like to build with only occasional driving. 

 

I really like Tamiya cars as they have a real 'personality' to each and every model, the Japanese quirks in the instructions and design logic add to this.  Whenever I build a Tamiya it's like going on a trip to Japan - I like that!

 

btw, regarding prices - Tamiya's pricing in the UK is comparitively high compared to Japan or even Germany.  That is not necessarilly down to Tamiya though, but rather the effectiveness of the supply chain and the fact that the models are travelling a long long way to arrive in your local hobby store.

[mugen mark]

this was the gate way car, a car/truck to get you into the hobby,if you want cars that look like real cars,then tamyia the way to go.but you didnt pay up to

[300bhp/ton]

@Quandry

 

Not sure I understand the distance travel bit to justify the price. Nearly all other kits from from China or N America, so this isn't really reason.

 

Re: the Hotshot or Avante.

 

The Hotshot is

[Zardoz]

I enjoyed reading your opinions of the build.

 

As others have said the Lunchbox is an old kit and I certainly wouldn't want to spend that much on a 'novelty' RC personally.

 

I think if you'd gone for a more modern kit like a DT-02 Sand Viper (includes bearings and oil filled dampers!) you'd have been much happier. Admittedly they're slightly more expensive than what you paid.

 

Sorry if I come across as a bit of a fan boy (my fave off roader I own is a cheap 4x4 Quanum Vandal  )

[tonysmini]

I asked a model shop owner about the bushes once, the reason Tamiya use them is because they are a 'no maintinence' fit, and because they are aimed at such a wide range of people from the intro hobbiest to the full blown fanatic, bearings are a personal taste.

How many people get a kit from any manufacturer and then get their own bearings? I do because I like to know what I am paying for. Tamiya's rubber sealed bearings are excellent, but pricy, so including them in a kit would raise the price even more and people would moan.

Bare in mind that Tamiya is predominantly a model company (hence the model like parts) and that their market is world wide. The multi lingual instructions mean that they prepare a kit and it can be shipped anywhere in the world, good business sense.

I can see what you are saying, yes it is a terrible design for an RC car, but then it's also a brilliant design for a toy, which in the grand scheme of things is what it really is.

They are a bit of fun at the end of the day, Tamiya have realised what sells and what people want, and have done a pretty good job of filling the demand. They have made a few mistakes along the way (Jugg1 and in my opinion the original Avante, too deticate to bash) but they have made many more successes and stuck by them. Look at the Re-re's and how popular they are, SRB's, the 3-speed trucks, High-lifts, Clodbusters, they all have their failings but that's part of the attraction.

[Tamiyacowboy]

Good review, and sad to say your not very happy with the tamiya product. 

 

having been in rc for over 20 years, i have seen huge amounts of change.

way back in the early 80's tamiya and kyosho were the primes.

 

the start of all this was THE MINT 400 - The Baja 500 - the baja 1000.

these old school dirt racers were the mainstay of off road sport.

in 86 tamiya released the now famous grasshopper and hornet. 

 

fast forward a good few years, and tamiya products like the defunct 

hopper - hornet- hotshot etc etc all died out, no stock and very little in way of spares.

these models fully boxed and untouched started to hit top money, some kits costing over a grand.

 

Tamiya ever looking for more cash, saw the possibility of re-viving the older vintage range.

and the re-releases started to flow out. 

the new pumpkin replaced the old making it LOOSE its value. 

 

us tamiya folk are angry because those models we kept in pristine condition for all those years have now dropped to silly prices.

something that was an icon in the old days has been re-born and affected the true cost of our vintage models.

 

I have a pumkin, its chassis stamp states its a original 1987 chassis, thats 27 long used years old and its shows for its age.

the black plastic has now dulled you can tell its an old one. 

[qatmix]

You are talking about the re-release kits. Associated want you to spend

[300bhp/ton]

I enjoyed reading your opinions of the build.

 

As others have said the Lunchbox is an old kit and I certainly wouldn't want to spend that much on a 'novelty' RC personally.

 

I think if you'd gone for a more modern kit like a DT-02 Sand Viper (includes bearings and oil filled dampers!) you'd have been much happier. Admittedly they're slightly more expensive than what you paid.

 

Sorry if I come across as a bit of a fan boy (my fave off roader I own is a cheap 4x4 Quanum Vandal  )

I've not seen a Sand Viper up close, just had a quick look online and to be fair it really doesn't look too bad. The price seems ok for it too, although it's a shame it still has the same old 540 motor.

[300bhp/ton]

Good review, and sad to say your not very happy with the tamiya product. 

Many thanks.

 

And maybe I need to edit my review as I'm not unhappy with product and certainly don't dislike it. In fact I do rather like it. I'm however objectively just a little disappointed that Tamiya have chosen not to improve this kit, given the ease in how they could have done.

[tonysmini]

Sorry for the double post.

Edited January 6, 2014 by tonysmini

[Nitroholic]

The point TamiyaCowboy makes is exactly the point ...

 

If Tamiya had updated the re-releases, rather thna just pad out there range with re-casts from the old moulds, then the collectors kits would have held their value AND modern buyers would have got a better car.

 

Nobody buys a Lunchbox thinking it will be a racer....but friction dampers, plastic motor mounts etc. could all be upgraded without any alteration of the fun, with it still being a 'builders experience' with it still looking like an old Lunchbox but just being a little bit better! The purists an still buy and cherish the originals, and the next generation of potential Tamiya fan-boys could have cars with bearings ( an equivalent set of bearings is not pricey retail....and would be far less to a bulk buyer)

 

It would NOT have driven up the prices of the kit by any appreciable amount for Tamiya to have brought the kit up to modern standards, as proven by the many other budget offerings that manage to include far more for less. A 2012 Lunchbox with chassis braces, oil shocks, finned alloy motor mount  and full bearing kit would still be a Lunchbox. Still be a kit you could build with your kids, still be a slow, bad handling bit of fun .... it would just be a bit more of a car and less of an RC time travelling device taking you right back to 1987!

[Quandry]

While Tamiya sells Internationally, it seems that they mostly design their products around the Japanese domestic market.   The Japanese like to upgrade!   For them it's probably an advantage to buy a basic kit and then buy all the upgrades to make it unique.   (In that way I think maybe I am also part Japanese).  This phenomenon is not limited to R/C, if you look at the golden age of JDM sports cars - Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan etc, etc, all of these marques were supported by numerous 'Tuning' companies that made parts specifically for upgrading the cars (Apexi, Tein, Fujitsubo, HKS etc etc).   Japanese customers would buy a Supra from a Toyota Dealer and have it delivered straight to 'Top Secret' where it could be upgraded to 1000hp or more with bolt on upgrades.  Buying basic and upgrading is part of the Japanese culture.

 

Anyway, if the UK market demands bearings, brushless motors or better speed controllers etc etc, then it would be useful for the Tamiya wholesalers in the UK or Europe to adapt or adjust the kit to suit the local market.  I don't know if that's a possibility but maybe that would go some way to making the cars more marketable.

[Quandry]

@Quandry

 

Not sure I understand the distance travel bit to justify the price. Nearly all other kits from from China or N America, so this isn't really reason.

 

I looked up the Lunchbox online in Japan it is selling for 40 pounds albeit at one of the cheaper online retailers.  If you paid 100 then there is 60 pounds being added on there somewhere that is not going to Tamiya.

 

Local market support has costs, as does holding stock, trading, filing, staff, etc etc.  I'm just saying don't blame 'Tamiya' for high prices when they are contributing to only part of the cost.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Quandry