Revoking speeding ticket?

[fnknan]

Hey all, been a while.

 

A bit of a weird one, but I was in the fiesta and after pulling onto the A40, my instrument cluster just died out of nowhere? It was an average speed zone with not many cars on the road so I literally had no idea how fast I was going so I tried to match speed of the other cars on the road. The only problem is that the few other cars were going different speeds so I don't know if I was speeding or not. When I got to my destination I checked the fuse box and the 7.5 amp fuse for the instrument cluster was blown so I just replaced it with the heated seat relay fuse for now. Ordered a set of fuses on eBay earlier.

 

I binned the blown fuse because I didn't think anything of it until about an hour ago.

 

If I end up getting a ticket, is there any way I can fight it with no evidence? Or am I done for?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by fnknan

[Alex97]

If it's a newer one might the cars computer show that there was a blown fuse? 

 

 

Bit of a long shot.

[fnknan]

34 minutes ago, Alex97 said:

If it's a newer one might the cars computer show that there was a blown fuse? 

 

 

Bit of a long shot.

Eh it's a 2012 so I kinda doubt it. No way to check cos I removed the OBD2 fuse to help prevent theft.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though 👍

Edited September 25, 2020 by fnknan

[m4inbrain]

I'm pretty certain you're boned on that one. 

 

Here's what they will argue, and i'd bet money on it. The speed limit is a limit, not a target. If you can't determine your speed accurately (which btw you could via google maps or Waze etc), it's your responsibility to make sure you stay below the speed limit. Especially if you don't have traffic around you to match your speed to. I bet they won't let that slide as an excuse (IF you get a ticket in the first place), since it's pretty easy to not break the speed limit without having a speedometer. Indeed your argument works against you there, if there's no cars to match the speed to, you wouldn't be an obstruction to other drivers either by going 45 on a dual carriage way (don't know what you were driving). 

 

In fact, you might actually get slapped with another offence if you can't prove that you only had a broken speedometer on that trip, since driving without a speedo is an offence, and the only defence is that you can prove that it broke in the middle of a journey (indeed, the journey that you expect resulted in a ticket). I'm pretty sure that you need a certified mechanic to attest you that, which might be impossible without the ODB2 port. 

 

edit: my bad, you actually mentioned A40, so average 40mph. Considering how easy it is to drive 30-35 without speedometer, i don't think they'd let that go as an excuse. But i might be entirely wrong here, i'm not a legal expert - i can only go by experiences of me and family in regards to the, well.. theft, really, they pull off. We got a parking ticket for allegedly parking in a employees parking lot even though we have a picture and GPS proof that we parked almost 100m away from that spot (my phone logs where i park, and you need to take a pic too - since it was a big hospital i wanted to make sure i'll find it quickly). All they had to go by is a picture of our car driving into the "employee parking zone". Which we did, and then we drove back out again because there weren't any spots free. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by m4inbrain

[fnknan]

38 minutes ago, m4inbrain said:

I'm pretty certain you're boned on that one. 

 

Here's what they will argue, and i'd bet money on it. The speed limit is a limit, not a target. If you can't determine your speed accurately (which btw you could via google maps or Waze etc), it's your responsibility to make sure you stay below the speed limit. Especially if you don't have traffic around you to match your speed to. I bet they won't let that slide as an excuse (IF you get a ticket in the first place), since it's pretty easy to not break the speed limit without having a speedometer. Indeed your argument works against you there, if there's no cars to match the speed to, you wouldn't be an obstruction to other drivers either by going 45 on a dual carriage way (don't know what you were driving). 

 

In fact, you might actually get slapped with another offence if you can't prove that you only had a broken speedometer on that trip, since driving without a speedo is an offence, and the only defence is that you can prove that it broke in the middle of a journey (indeed, the journey that you expect resulted in a ticket). I'm pretty sure that you need a certified mechanic to attest you that, which might be impossible without the ODB2 port. 

 

edit: my bad, you actually mentioned A40, so average 40mph. Considering how easy it is to drive 30-35 without speedometer, i don't think they'd let that go as an excuse. But i might be entirely wrong here, i'm not a legal expert - i can only go by experiences of me and family in regards to the, well.. theft, really, they pull off. We got a parking ticket for allegedly parking in a employees parking lot even though we have a picture and GPS proof that we parked almost 100m away from that spot (my phone logs where i park, and you need to take a pic too - since it was a big hospital i wanted to make sure i'll find it quickly). All they had to go by is a picture of our car driving into the "employee parking zone". Which we did, and then we drove back out again because there weren't any spots free. 

Thanks for your input mate.

 

I would disagree with the speed limit not being a target as nowadays, you can fail your driving test if you drive too slowly as it can cause an accident.

 

I would've pulled over if there was anywhere to actually stop but it would've been extremely unsafe to do so. So I didn't really have a choice and I had to drive without the speedometer until I could find somewhere off the dual carriageway, so hopefully they won't dash another offence at me.

 

The weird thing about this road is that it turns into a 30 when you go onto the raised road and the Speedo stopped working just before that point so I didn't have time to react and safely pull off the A40. I almost panicked a little and so I kept driving at what I thought was a safe and acceptable speed which I'm hoping wasn't over the speed limit. 

 

 

I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

 

[m4inbrain]

1 minute ago, fnknan said:

Thanks for your input mate.

 

I would disagree with the speed limit not being a target as nowadays, you can fail your driving test if you drive too slowly as it can cause an accident.

 

I would've pulled over if there was anywhere to actually stop but it would've been extremely unsafe to do so. So I didn't really have a choice and I had to drive without the speedometer until I could find somewhere off the dual carriageway, so hopefully they won't dash another offence at me.

 

The weird thing about this road is that it turns into a 30 when you go onto the raised road and the Speedo stopped working just before that point so I didn't have time to react and safely pull off the A40. I almost panicked a little and so I kept driving at what I thought was a safe and acceptable speed which I'm hoping wasn't over the speed limit. 

 

 

I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

 

 

No. Well, yes and no. You're right that you can fail your driving test if you obstruct traffic, but the reason for that is that the examiner assumes you're too timid to drive the speed limit. Not that it matters, since you usually have a speedo in your test.

 

It absolutely is a limit, not a target. I live rural, with loads of (almost entirely) country roads with national speed limit. If you drive national on some of them, you'll inevitably die in a ditch or at least total your car. You're supposed to drive the speed adjusted to the circumstances, that's what they mean by "target, not limit". If there's no reason to go slow, don't go slow. If there is however, do. Not having a speedo, i'd argue, is a reason to go slower. 

 

I don't like pulling over either, drove a few miles with my TPS going off because i didn't feel safe, so i understand that. That said: why not just put it in third, 2000 rpm, and sneak off - especially if there was barely any traffic? That's what i'd have done, i'm sure they'd argue the same. If you actually made the mistake, i'm personally thinking that muscle memory etc even subconsciously is enough to adjust speed more or less to the correct "setting". 

[fnknan]

22 minutes ago, m4inbrain said:

 

No. Well, yes and no. You're right that you can fail your driving test if you obstruct traffic, but the reason for that is that the examiner assumes you're too timid to drive the speed limit. Not that it matters, since you usually have a speedo in your test.

 

It absolutely is a limit, not a target. I live rural, with loads of (almost entirely) country roads with national speed limit. If you drive national on some of them, you'll inevitably die in a ditch or at least total your car. You're supposed to drive the speed adjusted to the circumstances, that's what they mean by "target, not limit". If there's no reason to go slow, don't go slow. If there is however, do. Not having a speedo, i'd argue, is a reason to go slower. 

 

I don't like pulling over either, drove a few miles with my TPS going off because i didn't feel safe, so i understand that. That said: why not just put it in third, 2000 rpm, and sneak off - especially if there was barely any traffic? That's what i'd have done, i'm sure they'd argue the same. If you actually made the mistake, i'm personally thinking that muscle memory etc even subconsciously is enough to adjust speed more or less to the correct "setting". 

 

I absolutely agree when it comes to country roads where traffic is almost non existent and the speed limit is 60 but in a city like London where you're driving 30 on a dual carriageway, it's best to stay close to the speed limit so that you don't create either an accident or traffic. As you said, it's about adjusting your driving to the setting. But yeah I didn't slow to a crawl because there were a lot of cars about 100-200 m behind me because the traffic lights had just gone green. Honestly I thought I could manage my speed fine but as I said, I only started second guessing myself this evening.

 

It was just such a weird situation so I didn't really know what to do, I haven't been driving for that long ( about a year and a half) so I've never had anything like this happen. In hindsight I probably would've done it a bit differently but I felt like I was driving safely in the moment.

[m4inbrain]

6 minutes ago, fnknan said:

 

I absolutely agree when it comes to country roads where traffic is almost non existent and the speed limit is 60 but in a city like London where you're driving 30 on a dual carriageway, it's best to stay close to the speed limit so that you don't create either an accident or traffic. As you said, it's about adjusting your driving to the setting. But yeah I didn't slow to a crawl because there were a lot of cars about 100-200 m behind me because the traffic lights had just gone green. Honestly I thought I could manage my speed fine but as I said, I only started second guessing myself this evening.

 

It was just such a weird situation so I didn't really know what to do, I haven't been driving for that long ( about a year and a half) so I've never had anything like this happen. In hindsight I probably would've done it a bit differently but I felt like I was driving safely in the moment.

 

Yeah, granted, hindsight is 20/20, i can talk big here now but i probably would've faffed around too. Though, in fairness, i don't have an instrument cluster, i'm pretty certain that if my display goes poof, the car would go into limp mode preventing me from going anywhere anyway. Fingers crossed nothing comes from it - and even if it does, if you went a mile or two over, it's not the end of the world really. Annoying, certainly, but you won't lose your license to it. Unless you went 65, which i assume you didn't. 

 

And, same thing. Correct, in normal circumstances you should stay close to the speed limit - unless there's factors preventing you to. That can be a road that simply isn't safe to be driven at a certain speed, certain weather - or not knowing how fast you're going. Nobody is suggesting to go 10mph, but you should know roughly where 30mph is (gear/rpm), just from doing it constantly. That's probably what i would've done, trying to go 30mph. I don't care if other people are annoyed - they're not paying for my ticket if i get one, so they can hump right off.

Edited September 26, 2020 by m4inbrain

[fnknan]

2 minutes ago, m4inbrain said:

 

 

. Nobody is suggesting to go 10mph, but you should know roughly where 30mph is (gear/rpm), just from doing it constantly. That's probably what i would've done, trying to go 30mph. I don't care if other people are annoyed - they're not paying for my ticket if i get one, so they can hump right off.

Yeah I was trying to figure out what rpm in what gear = what speed but I gave up because I really just didn't have any idea 😂. Haven't had the car for very long so haven't figured that all out completely yet.

[m4inbrain]

Just now, fnknan said:

Yeah I was trying to figure out what rpm in what gear = what speed but I gave up because I really just didn't have any idea 😂. Haven't had the car for very long so haven't figured that all out completely yet.

 

Unfortunate lol - and yeah, i remember that you have it fresh. But, i mean, you know what 30 looks like at least roughly. Next time just aim for that - even if you overshoot by 5mph, you're still "safe" from the leeches. First thing to do now is to put it in third gear tomorrow, and check the rpm at 35mph.

 

That's of course assuming that your tachometer still worked. If it doesn't, well all you got really is sound, that comes over time. Don't think you can train a specific "engine note" in a few days, though maybe that's just me not being able to. 

 

 

[fnknan]

1 minute ago, m4inbrain said:

That's of course assuming that your tachometer still worked. If it doesn't, well all you got really is sound, that comes over time. Don't think you can train a specific "engine note" in a few days, though maybe that's just me not being able to. 

Yeah the whole cluster was dead so I was trying to associate noise with RPM but it's actually very difficult. 

 

I'm definitely gonna try and learn what sound in what gear = what speed incase this happens again. I'll see if I can find why it even happened in the first place too.

[m4inbrain]

Just now, fnknan said:

 I'll see if I can find why it even happened in the first place too.

 

That would be my focus too, car isn't that old, fuse shouldn't just let go for no reason. 

[fnknan]

1 minute ago, m4inbrain said:

 

That would be my focus too, car isn't that old, fuse shouldn't just let go for no reason. 

My thoughts exactly. Hoping it was just a fluke. Although there are other things going wrong with this car so I'm not certain :((

[m4inbrain]

1 minute ago, fnknan said:

My thoughts exactly. Hoping it was just a fluke. Although there are other things going wrong with this car so I'm not certain :((

 

Other things, like?

[fnknan]

On 26/09/2020 at 01:48, m4inbrain said:

 

Other things, like?

Alternator, AC compressor, possibly the serpentine belt? 

 

Luckily it's all under a 6 month warranty so It's not a penny out if my pocket. The shop I took it to diagnosed it as just the AC compressor however.

Edited October 7, 2020 by fnknan
Spelling

[m4inbrain]

2 minutes ago, fnknan said:

Alternator, AC compressor, possibly the serpentine belt? 

 

Luckily it's all under a 6 month warranty so It's not a penny out if my pocket.

 

All things that could be both mechanical or electrical problems

 

First thought of me would've been a bad ground now, but serpentine could be that too. Did you check with a multimeter on the battery, charging voltage?

[fnknan]

6 hours ago, m4inbrain said:

 

All things that could be both mechanical or electrical problems

 

First thought of me would've been a bad ground now, but serpentine could be that too. Did you check with a multimeter on the battery, charging voltage?

Yeah battery is charging fine. They just all make a lot of noise, think the bearings on each of them are going bad

[Oh How Original]

Definitely worth getting a speedo app on your phone, I would have also taken a video of the speedo going along the road to prove it was blown and you couldn't see your speed.

Regardless of opinion on speed limits/targets, it used to be 18% below the speed limit was acceptable, any slower was considered dangerous.

It's like us on our bikes with filtering, you are allowed to filter through traffic at a maximum of 12mph faster than the traffic is moving, how the hell do we know how fast the traffic is moving, we don't, so you just go slowly.

[m4inbrain]

1 hour ago, Oh How Original said:

I would have also taken a video of the speedo going along the road to prove it was blown and you couldn't see your speed.

 

I thought of that too, but then very quickly realised that no, i absolutely wouldn't have. 

 

Because what you first and foremost are proving is that you used your cell phone while driving. The only accepted reason for that is if you're calling 112 or 999 and can't pull over. Anything else leads to a fine - or in fnknan and my case (my UK license is less than two years old), to the permanent loss of our license. 

 

It also doesn't prove that the speedo just broke on that journey (which is the important part that he has to prove). 

[Oh How Original]

2 minutes ago, m4inbrain said:

 

I thought of that too, but then very quickly realised that no, i absolutely wouldn't have. 

 

Because what you first and foremost are proving is that you used your cell phone while driving. The only accepted reason for that is if you're calling 112 or 999 and can't pull over. Anything else leads to a fine - or in fnknan and my case (my UK license is less than two years old), to the permanent loss of our license. 

 

It also doesn't prove that the speedo just broke on that journey (which is the important part that he has to prove). 

 

Disagree, there is nothing to say a passenger hasn't just taken the video, which is what I would have said.

And it doesn't prove it JUST broke, but it proves that at the time it's broken.

It's not definite, but it would have helped just to have a little more circumstantial evidence.

But overall, I would have just got myself a speedo app, which I already have anyway, and gone by that 5mph under.

[Nitroholic]

Accept it and pay if you get a ticket.

 

Arguing, for whatever reason, that your car failed and you could not tell what speed you were doing won't get you off.  It's harsh...but fact.

There is no way you can actually prove it anyway, and your defence would require you to challenge it in court. Lose, and you will be charged costs as well as getting the fine and points.

 

When driving on the highway, you are not required to travel at the speed limit. You fail your driving test for failing to make proper headway....really to prevent those who would trundle around at 5mph. You will not fail your test doing 28 in a 30 limit.

If you are in an average speed check area, you should have slowed to the point that other cars were passing you and travelling just faster than you if you had no way to tell your speed.

 

Of course....you don;t actually know if you WERE speeding...so I wouldn't worry. There is nothing you can do about it. If you were speeding, claiming you had no idea what speed you were doing is not going to sit well in court.

 

So, seriously, if you get a ticket...pay the £60 and take the points. If you have a lot of speeding offences on your licence already...then you might have a problem... but if these ar the only points on your licence, then it won;t put your insurance up or cause you any issues. Just keep it tidy for the next couple of years and they are gone anyway

[Oh How Original]

Tbh, I was once coming into a 30 from a 60, I knew when I got to the sign I was doing about 36/37, reason for this was a white van man right up my backside, instead of risking getting hit (with nowhere safe to pull over) I went through the sign knowing a speed van was there, this was about 8 months ago and I heard nothing from it... I am guessing he either just missed me or saw how close the van was behind and decided to give me the benefit of the doubt.