Engine acting really strange

[Oh How Original]

I figured it was worth trying as we've tried most other things.

So we've got a 2000 model Honda Accord 1.8SE and for about 2 years now, it ocassionally does a strange thing where it's like bogging out (if you imagine a 2 stroke or nitro bogging out) and won't go, it has to be pulled over, put into first, and given a minute to sort itself out.

At first it was only once every few months, and it wasn't an issue, just needed the clutch dropping and revving a bit.

At first my Dad thought it was with running low on fuel a bit, hence why it only happens very rarely.

But recently it's been happening pretty much everytime we take the car out.

We've had the fuel lines repaired along with some other work for the MOT and that hasn't sorted it (fuel lines where a little bit perished)

We've also had it hooked up to 3 different diagnosis machines and none of them can find a fault on the car.

I thought maybe it was HT leads, but then you'd expect it to struggle to start etc... Which it never does.

It never happens when the revs are up a bit either (like motorway for example) only when setting off.

So before we start going down the route of taking the engine apart, just wondered if anyone had suffered a similar issue and what exactly was it? We've looks at things like timing and fuel pump etc...

So if anyones got any ideas they'd be very welcome.

[Gaz!]

fuel pump, air flow meter, coil pack, crank sensor, could be a thousand and one things fella, best bet is to either get on a honda owners forum (if its a common issue) or to a reputable mechanic who could do the diagnosing for you

[wolfie1]

If it only does it higher up the rev band try changing the fuel filter

[Trans4Mation]

air flow meter as gaz say or try decoking the throttle body, inline fuel filter been changed?

 

if it plays up more as it gets hotter try knock sensor/crank sensor not all faults show up on diag . also pull plugs off where ever they are fitted an wd them incase dry joint 

 

hope you get it sorted

Edited December 9, 2013 by Trans4Mation

[Oh How Original]

No bud it doesn't do it high in the rev range lol.

Not a lot has actually been changed yet because at first we thought it was due to fuel running really low (end of the month waiting for payday etc...) but recently it's a really regular thing.

It's been on 3 different diagnosis machines at 3 different garages Gaz :/ none of them can detect anything wrong with it... I was going to sign up to a Honda Forum at some point.

But ideally just want some things to look at that are free or cheap, before anything expensive gets replaced

[Noj]

As per Gaz, there are so many different components that could be failing, a simple diagnosis isn't possible. I will say it isn't a timing issue, as that is VERY noticeable, as your engine slowly disintegrates...

There may be a split in some hosing/trunking that is affecting airflow in the system, could be a cam sensor, which don't always show up on a diagnostic.

I would join an owners forum, wade thru the bull poop, heresay and just rubbish and find your answer; likely to be something which another owner has encountered I reckon...

Use eurocarparts or similar for replacement (OEM quality) items, save some brass, just don't get knock off stuff for parts like sensors etc, as they will fail quickly.

[Oh How Original]

I imagine it will be, we've actually spoken to another bloke who had a similar issue but he just sold the car... Not something we're prepared to do with the current problem it's got.

[PurcyP]

when you say bogging

 

do you mean there is a hesitation or flat spot, and then has a surge of acceleration (this is a common problem on carburetted cars such as a golf mk2 with bad fuel lines, fuel accelerator pump in carb etc)

 

How do you set off if the car wont go? high revs, put it into gear and quickly go before and if you dont does the car cut out? 

 

Problem is, this is a honda, if you have engine issues, you seriously have engine issues, if its a VTEC then the cam lobes might be screwed but then again that shouldnt stop you from moving, does the engine sound revvy at all?

 

a million and one things can cause this, map sensor, TPS sensor, air flow sensor, weak fuel pump etc

 

 

When you have the struggling do any lights come on, on the dash? battery warning light etc because if your alternator is going then that would explain it.

 

check your alternator, make sure its pumping out the right volts on idle. sometimes alternators will work fine when you are at speed but screw you over when not.

Edited December 9, 2013 by PurcyP

[m_c]

As other have said, it could be pretty much anything, and unless you can get the fault to appear with diagnostic kit attached, it's pretty much guess work unless somebody else has had experience of the fault and knows the likely cause.

 

However, going by what you've said, it sounds more like something sticking (it is just lacking power, and not misifiring?), that then clears itself. Is there any particular conditions the fault usually happens?

i.e. when putting yout foot down after cruising or after slowing down, when it's raining, only after driving for x length of time...and so on.

 

When did the car last have a major service?

It's always wise to start with the basics first.

[Oh How Original]

Engine doesn't sound revvy or out of note or anything.

It can happen really randomly, although I've never known it to happen after a long motorway journey, mainly like town/urban driving.

It had a good service when it had it's MOT about 6 months ago.

Also not noticed any lights on the dash either.

I know it could be a very wide range of things though, but short of replacing them all (probably cheaper to buy a rear end write off and change the engine) I figured it was worth asking just in case someone has the same VTEC engine with a similar problem.

Again though we've already had it in 3 different garages on 3 different diagnostic machines and they couldn't find the fault either... Even though it happened as we were entering one of the garages.

That to me would rule out an electrical problem?

May look down the route of changing a few of the sensors and maybe fuel pump, starting with cheapest first.

[wolfie1]

It is not going to be a sensor or anything electrical otherwise it would have stored a fault in the ecu even if the light didnt come on, so it only leaves something mechanical, ie fuel pump, fuel filter, air filter clogged, damaged plug, blocked cat or something along those lines

[PurcyP]

Check your alternator

check fuel pump/lines etc

check dizzy cap.

 

without us driving it we cant really help

[Oh How Original]

The fuel pump was new with the MOT, as where fuel lines.

I'll tell my Dad to check the alternator and dizzy cap... We'll get it over the pit at work and have a good gander for anything leaking too.

Anything else we can check while we're under it?

Could it be exhaust/manifold/cat related?

[PurcyP]

No, any exhaust issues would be apparent or even worse at higher speeds and is usually evident by noise. 

 

its just very odd its happening at low speed which to me would hint clutch or gearbox but you havnt said if the engine stalls when you have the issue and you try and set off.

[SlideSquad]

Dizzy cap, is it not on a coil? If so could be that failing, or some sort of sensor chucking out wrong readings confusing car computer (lambs, airflow, crank position sensor?) they don't always show up on dash or computer.

Could also be lack of fuel, injector/fuel rail problems or something. Out merc recovery truck has similar problem but only when it's got less than quarter of a tank. We just keep it above quarter haha

[Oh How Original]

Yes it's like it's stalling... It's actually cut out a couple of times, but normally just stopping, putting the clutch in and revving it sorts it, it takes a good 4,000rpm and dropping the clutch to get her going again though.

[PurcyP]

thats definitely hinting towards clutch/gearbox issues mate.

 

but check the alternator and dizzy cap first and look out for any warning lights on the dash when shizzle is about to happen 

[Oh How Original]

How would that make the engine actually want to die though?

Are you meaning like when setting off the clutch isn't disengaging or something like that?

[SlideSquad]

If your able to rev it out (even if it's slowly) when the clutch is in I can't see it being clutch/gearbox problems. Plus u would hear some really strange mechanical noises (whines etc) if it was box related.

Vtec works of oil pressure, I've seen them do some really weird stuff when things don't go there way.

[PurcyP]

it isnt fuel starvation as your engine would die at any speed

it isnt exhaust related because the noise would be something chronic and again would be generally worse at high speed

 

the reason im saying potential gearbox issues is because you said it is stalling.

 

you need to get a mechanic to drive it to know, but at the moment im calling it on gearbox issues or dizzy/alternator issues

 

or it might even be the VTEC playing silly bugger, especially if oil pressure is off etc

Edited December 10, 2013 by PurcyP

[SlideSquad]

Even if the oil pressure isn't off it could be a oil pressure sensor tellin the computer it's off and playing with the engine.

Exhaust wise I agree althought it could be a blocked cat (although it may not of passed its a mot so that could rule that out)

Need more info to help out anymore tbh

[Oh How Original]

Not sure what more information I can give lol.

Not had a mechanic drive it because it doesn't always happen, or rather it didn't back when we had it in at different garages.

[danzul90]

it may be worth checking the exhaust.

we had a hilux come i with a sudden lack of power, it didnt sound exhaust related but the turbo was blamed untill a replacement unit was replaced and still the problem existed. in the end it did honestly turn out to the rear silencer. i dont know whether it was blowing or blocked however.

 

Also do Vtecs have EGR valve? i would expect some smoke from the exhaust though if this was blocked or sooted up. and the lack in power to be constant not intermittant.

 

What is your normal driving like, do you drive it gently like your after economy?

Does it only get short journeys?

if so it may just want ragging to clear it out, failing that you can clean the EGR valve out.

 

I was made redundant before i could pass my aprenticeship so maybe some one with more experience can point out if i am on the wrong track but past this i can only advise getting a mechanic to drive it, if its easier you could get your passenger to record a video on their phone the next time it happens for you to show to a garage.

[Oh How Original]

The exhaust is actually new (well relatively new) me and my Dad put it on about 8 months ago because the old one definitely wouldn't have passed the MOT

Journeys are mainly my Dad to work and back which is 5 minutes down the road, or a trip to the model shop which is about 15-20 minutes.

What do you guys think to sticking a bit of Redex in the tank and giving it a good rag up the bypass?

Can't really do anymore harm to be honest, could give it a good clear out...

[andyllewellyn]

Sounds like a fuelling problem, like the throttle position sensor or air flow meter(can't remember what honda uses), also a friend has a integra with a similar problem and it is because he needs a new dizzy unit but this is the b18 engine and is very highly strung but maybe the same in principal.

Andy