Slow starting baja

[timsmith]

Hi everyone

I mentioned this is another thread of started about something else but have investigated further and little struggling.

I was running in by Baja and after about 10 mins, it was struggling to move even with quite high revs.

Took it apart today and can't find anything obvious.

Gearbox seems fine

Engine starts and runs fine

When I apply revs it sometimes moves (very slowly) when I apply quite high revs and other times bogs down and has on one occasion stalled the engine

No funny noises at all.

It feels like the clutch is slipping bit it's brand new and I can't see why it would.

Any ideas ?

Tim

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[Feedtheinferno]

Have you taken the clutch bell off and actually looked at the clutch?

[mini-z-awd]

like in your other thread check the clutch for either a broken or strechted spring or come to think of it the clutch is on backwards from factory 

[timsmith]

Yes - checked it. The shoes have plenty of material on them and the spring seems tight. I can't move the shoes myself. Is that normal? I'm assuming that it's meant to be quite tight. I'll check whether it's backwards but it did work ok for the first 10mins so id assume it's unlikely.

Thanks

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[mini-z-awd]

Yes - checked it. The shoes have plenty of material on them and the spring seems tight. I can't move the shoes myself. Is that normal? I'm assuming that it's meant to be quite tight. I'll check whether it's backwards but it did work ok for the first 10mins so id assume it's unlikely.

Thanks

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yes its supposed tobe really tight its so the engines centrifugal forces pull it apart to drive the gearbox then the wheels did you see any arrows on the clutch shoes ? no arrows then the shoe`s are on backwards 

[timsmith]

Thanks - I'll check.

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[timsmith]

Hi,

I've disassembled again to reach the clutch. I can see what looks like a couple of triangular arrows next to two of the holes and pointing in an anticlockwise direction. This seems right for the direction of travel.

There seems to be quite a lot of brownish marking on the clutch shoes and very little inside the clutch bell. Whether this is appropriate for only 10mins running I have no idea.

I've attached a photo.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

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[marder]

In the top photo, i don't know if its just the angle you took it

but the clutch looks like its not central in the clutch housing

Look low and left, almost touching is how it looks

Is the clutch carrier that clutch shoes bolt to tightened up properly on the crank?

Edited July 12, 2014 by marder

[mini-z-awd]

Hi,

I've disassembled again to reach the clutch. I can see what looks like a couple of triangular arrows next to two of the holes and pointing in an anticlockwise direction. This seems right for the direction of travel.

There seems to be quite a lot of brownish marking on the clutch shoes and very little inside the clutch bell. Whether this is appropriate for only 10mins running I have no idea.

I've attached a photo.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

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going by the first pic that looks like a stretched spring to me there should`nt be a gap of any sort between the coils 

 

you`ll see no gaps in this one 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BAJA-CLUTCH-SHOES-AND-SPRING-BOLTS-6000-RPM-HPI-5B-SS-5T-FG-CY-MARDER-ETC-/201123917750?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Edited July 12, 2014 by mini-z-awd

[timsmith]

I see what you mean. Would that give symptoms described? In my ignorance, Wouldnt a stretched spring be slacker and therefore mean that the shoes are flung out more easily and the clutch engages sooner?

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[mini-z-awd]

I see what you mean. Would that give symptoms described? In my ignorance, Wouldnt a stretched spring be slacker and therefore mean that the shoes are flung out more easily and the clutch engages sooner?

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with mine it did the same thing with a stretched spring all it would do is revs it nuts off and not move so i changed the spring over to a new one and away it would go again like it did before and i thought the same thing as you but it did`nt engage any earlier

Edited July 12, 2014 by mini-z-awd

[timsmith]

Thanks a lot - really appreciate the advice. Will try a new one.

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[mini-z-awd]

Thanks a lot - really appreciate the advice. Will try a new one.

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no worrys and i hope it works for you and if it does its a cheap fix 

[marder]

In the top photo, i don't know if its just the angle you took it

but the clutch looks like its not central in the clutch housing

Look low and left, almost touching is how it looks

Is the clutch carrier that clutch shoes bolt to tightened up properly on the crank?

I'm tellin ya that top pic don't look right!

Can you confirm that the clutch is sitting dead center in middle of that housing?

Might be my eyes as can see round bends lol

If clutch carrier loose on crank, engine just rev & rev and the clutch wouldn't even spin!

Edited July 12, 2014 by marder

[marder]

Also never heard a weak spring stop clutch from working,

Almost like having no spring and not working

Things that stop clutches from working is from well over tightened bolts despite having

a shoulder on them

Just changed my spring as matter of fact last week as was weak which resulted in bogging

As clutch coming in too early!

Edited July 12, 2014 by marder

[Feedtheinferno]

Where abouts are you based bud? Someone local with more experience may be able to better assist. I disagree on the spring front, it looks fine and the seating of the two shoes together is fine in terms of distance so don't waste your time on a spring.

The offset (if the picture is to believed) is wrong. Meaning one of your clutch bolts has unthreaded slightly and has sat the clutch at angle meaning it wouldn't rotate fully.

Also again to disagree with what has been said, you SHOULD be able to rotate the clutch by hand, take the spark plug out to lesson compression and it will rotate. If it doesn't then it's not seated correctly. Remove the two clutch bolts and reseat it and it will be fine after that.

[timsmith]

Hi guys, sorry been rather hectic recently.

I think it must be the picture and an illusion. The clutch is centred and tight on the crank. The clutch bell rotates smoothly round it when in place.

Did order a couple of new springs before I saw yours posts but not a waste to have them ready anyway.

I'm at a loss womdering what it is. I'd almost wonder if the engine is just too rich now, but it was a pretty quick change from going ok (half throttle or so for break on) to struggling to.

Tried again in the garden today. A couple of times it started moving at a reasonable pace but only after I put full throttle on. The other couple of times it bogged down and killed the engine.

The only other thing was that there was cut grass in the field I was in. Is there any reason why this could give the symptoms?

This thing is bugging me now! I'm in Stockport if anyone can help - willing to travel within reason 'cod I'm at a loss.

I've got a couple of videos I took trying to see what happened - I'll post links.

Tim

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[timsmith]

http://youtu.be/_Bbci1MbA5I

http://youtu.be/394SXa3rtLo

http://youtu.be/T5-zEb735v0 (complete with my son asking questions I can't answer!)

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[DARSKi-RC]

I just broke in a KM Baja this weekend and after 2nd short heat cycle it started to bog and stall. Leaned out the low speed needle a bit and all was good. Not sure it's the same problem but hope it helps.

[timsmith]

Sounds similar - it had been running for maybe 5-10 mins before it started doing it. It was the relatively sudden change that confuses me though.

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[DARSKi-RC]

Yep same as mine - I thought it was something major but bogging is a symptom of running rich and a tiny carb adjustment fixed mine, but I reckon it can go leaner after a few more tanks.

[timsmith]

Cheers - I'll try that tomorrow

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[ant b 4]

It sounds to rich,aswell if you've been running in the plug may be oiled up