Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Edam released first information on their new 1/10 scale electric on-road "unlimited class" chassis called Esprit.The car features pivot ball suspension parts as seen on 200mm nitro chassis combined with a three belt drivetrain and a very narrow carbon fibre chassis as normally seen on 190mm touring cars. Depending on the setup and tyre used an overall width of 190 to 220mm is achievable with a wheelbase of 258mm and an overall weight of around 1600g. The car is developed for an "unlimited class" use with 3S 11.1V LiPo batteries and up to 3.5T motors and GTP as well as normal touring car body shells. Source: Area 52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorrylemming Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Why do the rear hubs attach to the body post? As seen on last picture or is it just my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe of loath Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think that's an ARB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 No the body mounts actually do mount to the hubs. Its to transfer the force generated by the body directly to the wheels, basically allowing the chassis to roll through a corner whilst the body and wheels stay flat(ish). Very trick, Serpent experimented with the idea in 1/8th Circuit cars. http://www.rctech.ne...66-rear-966.jpg It helps more with Lola Can-Am style bodies rather than touring car bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 when and where can we buy this? i hope MS stocks it because i just fell in love with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorrylemming Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 So you get down force on the wheels rather than just making the chassis squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 when and where can we buy this? i hope MS stocks it because i just fell in love with it. Not sure yet, here's their site. http://www.edam.com.tw/ So you get down force on the wheels rather than just making the chassis squat. Thats the theory, yep, but in reality its difficult to control what does what. Its a bit like the RC equivilant to Chop Champan's Lotus 88 F1 car, where the body was mounted to an outer chassis and it floated around the inner chassis which housed the engine, gearbox etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorrylemming Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yes I can see it being hard to tune both for down force and tyre grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 it looks so much like a nitro car. i am new to the hobby but since my first day into this, i have been wondering why they don't make electric and nitro touring cars on the same chassis and only use different motor mounts and top decks. This car is a step in the right direction i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 it looks so much like a nitro car. i am new to the hobby but since my first day into this, i have been wondering why they don't make electric and nitro touring cars on the same chassis and only use different motor mounts and top decks. This car is a step in the right direction i think. Mainly its because both powerplants have their own needs for weight distribution as a nitro car has a very high centre of gravity compared to the low C.O.G of an electric one. You'll have to compromise the design to make it useable for both types of power. If you try and make a chassis that is good for both, you can guarentee it'll be outclassed, out handled and out performed by a chassis designed for one power choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 i am not fully convinced. If you look at things such as adjustable antiroll bars, geared diffs and suspension adjustments, those can be brought into electrics easily. I can understand the chassis layout being different but i don't understand why my T3 has to use set toe uprights in the rear but the NT1 doesn't. Or why they can't both have the same gear diffs or the same adjustable roll bar at the front. Or why i have to buy different hubs to adjust the caster in the T3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 A T3 outhandles an NT1 by a long way It accelerates faster, stops better, changes direction far more easily. The parts themselves have to be more beefy on a nitro chassis to withstand the huge impacts that happen in a crash, the electric cars go faster but have less weight and less momentum, so can get away with thinner parts. If they used the same parts, you'd have a heavier electric chassis (that is stronger but would be left behind by dedicated electric cars) or a lighter nitro one which is weaker which breaks every run. RC manufacturers like Xray have been around 10+ years and started off with designs which were inspired by nitro cars (the original Xray T1 had parts similar to the Serpent nitro chassis of the time (they were both manufactured by Hudy), but years of research and development showed that dedicated designs turned faster laptimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Coe Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 (edited) i am not fully convinced. If you look at things such as adjustable antiroll bars, geared diffs and suspension adjustments, those can be brought into electrics easily. I can understand the chassis layout being different but i don't understand why my T3 has to use set toe uprights in the rear but the NT1 doesn't. Or why they can't both have the same gear diffs or the same adjustable roll bar at the front. Or why i have to buy different hubs to adjust the caster in the T3. The thing is they started out that way - 1/10th nitros started as 1/10th TC's with nitro engines fitted. But the moment purpose built nitro chassis arrived they were rendered obsolete. Nitro companies have tried the reverse way - still doesn't work. It would suit Xray if they could as having one mold for multiple cars would seriously save money, and suit shops as they'd need to carry less stock. You have to remember these are cutting edge racing chassis we are talking about - if having an ARB specific to that chassis rather than common to the nitro and the electric (which have different CoG's, roll centres, traction, weights etc) is worth a fraction of a second per lap - its worth doing. There is a tact admission that this chassis isn't really designed to take on the T3 or Mi4 in the whole 'unlimited' class bit. Edited September 19, 2011 by Si Coe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 hmm, interesting info. I do see your points but at the same time I don't see how adjustable caster would make the car slower over the fixed caster blocks they use now. The same applies to the rear toe adjustments and antiroll bars. Fair enough about the weight of the diffs and other components but I don't see pivot ball suspension weighing much more than what they use now. Since these changes are symmetrical they wouldn't affect the weight distribution of the car either. They would reduce the amount of ballast you can use to make it race legal but how much ballast do you need for actually balancing the car as opposed to weighing it down just for the regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 The weight limit for electric TC is 1350g, most touring cars are right on the limit in terms of balance. After you've balanced the car, when you add weight, maybe 20g is enough to bring it up to weight (I put it in the middle, under the front belt). Caster though is down to front hub design - Xrays use the C-Hub, this Edam uses Pivot Ball. Castor is changed with the upper wishbone being moved forwards (for less castor) or backwards (for more castor). Its really something which isn't changed often, just set and forget. Touring cars have used Pivot Ball in the past but the problem was stopping the width of the car (and camber) changing in an accident. Make the parts tougher and they get heavier, and so make the car slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Ok, i am starting to see what's going on but why then don't they fit the nitros with the same suspension as electrics? I am sure they can make it strong enough. if the electrics already have superior suspension albeit a bit weaker, then it is a matter of making it a bit stronger and using it on nitros too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Then its a case of weight, to make C-hubs strong enough on nitro touring cars, they'd need to be make from alloy which then bends in a crash, and its much more unsprung weight away from the centreline of the car. Its just evolution, a bit like saying why we don't have 6 fingers instead of 5 etc. As Si says, things have evolved the way they have as its pretty much the fastest way to susepend a chassis on 4 wheels within the racing rules. This Edam chassis doesn't actually fit any racing rules at the minute as its 200mm wide and runs foams, but if its popular enough, others will join by converting existing cars or designing their own, and in 5 years time the chassis won't look the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headamage Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Ok I am reasonably convinced Thanks for explaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 It actually looks quite bad in that video, massive understeer at some points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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