Tamiyacowboy Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Cheers for the info, just finished putting it together, bit bigger than i thought, it came with a x3 barlow, then 3 lenses marked k20, sr4 and h12 Seems sturdy enough, goind to spend a few nights, finding my way around the scope first, then hopefully i will get ambitious with the web cam, out of curiosity, is auto focus best left enabled, or do we compensate for focus, on the scope itself we use the scope and the (film cam tube) tube. pop camera into focus ring and lock it down, then we use the scopes focusing to get a nice picture. just imaging your webcam is a dlsr camera, now your scope acts as the dslr lens. this type of imaging is called primary. all we use is the camera, our scope acts as a super big lens holding your unmodded webcam over an eyepeice fitted in your scope is called afocal. we use the camera and its lens, and also the telescope and an eyepiece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Cheers, that makes more sense now, now i have seen the focusing tube, would using the primary method with the barlow work too? Pretty chuffed with myself tonight, found jupiter using my 15x70 binos, and could just make out the 4 moons, went over to the scope, and using the 20mm eye piece, i could clearly see the 4 moons, as well as some detail on jupiter itself, was still very small looking through the eye piece, but an awesome sight all the same, tried working down to a smaller size eye piece, but found it harder to focus on the planet, think a few adjustments are needes to the tube, as it wobbles insanley at the slightest touch, found a nice vantage point in the garage too, so no ambient light, however once i get back from picking up the mrs, il relocate to the garden I must admit, whilst researching the hobby, i was apprehensive as to what, if any joy i could derive, but after seeing jupiter as a planet, and not just a star gave me a proper buzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Cheers, that makes more sense now, now i have seen the focusing tube, would using the primary method with the barlow work too? Pretty chuffed with myself tonight, found jupiter using my 15x70 binos, and could just make out the 4 moons, went over to the scope, and using the 20mm eye piece, i could clearly see the 4 moons, as well as some detail on jupiter itself, was still very small looking through the eye piece, but an awesome sight all the same, tried working down to a smaller size eye piece, but found it harder to focus on the planet, think a few adjustments are needes to the tube, as it wobbles insanley at the slightest touch, found a nice vantage point in the garage too, so no ambient light, however once i get back from picking up the mrs, il relocate to the garden I must admit, whilst researching the hobby, i was apprehensive as to what, if any joy i could derive, but after seeing jupiter as a planet, and not just a star gave me a proper buzz really glad your first viewing has opened up the wonders beyond our rocky ball we live on. i was the same with jupiter, Awe struck from the view and to think 480 million odd miles away. you have to remeber jupiter makes one full rotation in 10hrs. once your able to webcam it and record you can pull that detail out more. barlow lens 3x yeah should be no problem with primary , also will work Afocal to. aye you see these hubble like pictures and think omg thats awesome. then you get your first scope, you see nothing like those Deep sky imaging pictures, but it draws you to keep looking. good thing is godson asked if i would do a talk for him in school for his science/technology project, is nice he has an interest and wants to dig deeper. he also asked to borrow the webcam and telescope when it is built and running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtokez Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 good work mate, I'm looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) good work mate, I'm looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labour as right now the fruits of labour look very good. i do have a strong infrared pinkish hue, this can be removed with an IR/UV filter. Prime focus 300mm @ f3.9. placing camera into focal tube on telescope. adjust telescope focus to half way. loosen camera slightly and move in or out until perfect focus is gained. i am very happy with results. will try and get some shots tonight or over the weekend. this hot weather is not too good for us astronomers and getting good seeing ( astmospheric distortion, i think they call it). How to Polar align your telescope vid Edited September 28, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Looking forward to seeing some pics with the finished cam, one question though, i had a play using the afocal method earlier, which didnt work too well, although, it is just a plain old logitech 300, im going to have a crack at removing the lens, and adding a 35mm film canister, i also had a play using the primary method, with, and without the barlow, but i could still see the spider, in the centre of the frame (cam), is this focused out, once the camera fitted to the focusing tube correctly? using the primary method, i simply held the cam over the end of the barlow Also, which eye pieces can i use, to get a wider field of vision, and better mag, i can use the 20mm with the barlow, however the 12 and 4mm are hopeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Looking forward to seeing some pics with the finished cam, one question though, i had a play using the afocal method earlier, which didnt work too well, although, it is just a plain old logitech 300, im going to have a crack at removing the lens, and adding a 35mm film canister, i also had a play using the primary method, with, and without the barlow, but i could still see the spider, in the centre of the frame (cam), is this focused out, once the camera fitted to the focusing tube correctly? using the primary method, i simply held the cam over the end of the barlow Also, which eye pieces can i use, to get a wider field of vision, and better mag, i can use the 20mm with the barlow, however the 12 and 4mm are hopeless remove the barlow, and pop in a 12mm. focus onto a star, now hold webcam so it rests just on the eyepiece, now use focus ring to get a clear image (afocal). this way we us the telescope and eyepiece and the camera and its lens primary will only work once lens is unscrewed, when lens is removed we use just the telescope, this acts like a giant sized lens fixed at the telescopes focal length. for you that will be 900mm and for me 300mm. now if we add a 2x barlow to your telescope focal length it doubles, now you have a 1800mm lens. the barlow doubles or trebbles the telescopes focal length, but reduces quality as a downfall. i think that 3x barlow is to much, keep it but find a cheaper 2x barlow, this will give you less mag but better and a more possible mag. if you want to try your 4mm and 12mm. take of the barlow and use just the eyepieces with a 2x barlow they will be toned down 1x less than the 3x barlow you have . 900/4 = thats 225x mag enough to see jupiter well just with your eyepiece only. 900/12 = 75x mag. if you pop out in daylight drop in an eyepiece and gaze you will see the spider, or a black central circle ( the mirror secondary) this is because our eyes auto adjust our iris same happens for a webcam/camera at prime focus if it has a lens fitted. as the daylight drops your eyes iris gets larger and the black circle/spider starts to become less noticed. take care if you crack open the cam, if you get a little lost drop a picture here and i will take a look and help figure out what needs doing to what and how hope that helps Edited September 28, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richhrly Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 How about this for telescope photography? http://images.extremespotting.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) I actualy have a project box, i bought from maplins, which im hoping, will be the basis of the camera body, it was originaly intended to be a radio box on my old tmaxx, pretty confident cracking open the cam, however i will throw up some pics of my progress, thanks again mate, finally getting my brain around the maths, and working out focal lengths/mag i seem to have gone a bit soppy this week, keep grabbing the binos and looking up in awe, seeing jupiter close up, im like a 1 year old, who has just seen a puppy for the first time , been there all this time, and i have only just started paying attention to whats above my swede lol, although our lass has taken to calling me Patrick Moore Those pics of the planes are ace, i have no chance, it takes me 10 minutes to find a blooming star and keep it in focus Edited September 28, 2011 by martleeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Ohhh never thought about grabbing a few shots of jetliners, nice link rich last night was a washout about 2:30am the mist started to clear, i was shattered. got a few glimpses of jupiter but that was all. got to fit a IR filter to the astrocam, it is very sensitive to IR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Busted out frakenwebcam last night. so imagine the picture, 9 ft of cable, 9 feet away from pc with Astro webcam hooked into the dobson (heritage 76). placed scope onto Boote and onto the bright star, popped webcam back into scope and while bending over backwards tried to focus onto said star.NO joy at all nada nothing. i think i need to do some planetry before trying stars. the moon and likes. so i need a bigger light bucket have chosen either a dobsonian 200p/250p. bigger mirror and scope means a longer focal point and more of a light bucket for the camera. when they say size matters i think they mean mirror wise so tonight i shall stick the 3' mirror onto jupiter and see if i can get the focus marked out and jupiter to show. will post findings and avi/stacked of the nights viewing tomorrow ifi get anything woth while. also decided to throw sharpcap onto the laptop and charge the battery up. hopeful being more mobile and able to move the lappy i will not have to run back and forth trying to set focus and see screen at same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Its funny you should mention upgrading, i have taken a shine to the Meade range, bit pricey for a novice though After using mine for short of a week now, i can deffinatley say, you pay for what you get, the x3 barlow, is only good as a focus tube plug, plus finding the 4mm and 12mm eye pieces a chore to look through, i have taken to covering one eye up, now i know why Patrick Moore wears an eye patch, i have a x2 barlow on its way, so will see how my attempts at astro photography fare, seeing wise, we have had some cracking clear weather this week, although early evening viewing has been a tad bit hazy, looking forward to the cold nights , cant beleive i just said that I was thinking about buying some eye relief, eye pieces, but as i want to try my hand at web cam photography, i dont think spending more on eye pieces will be woth while just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 yup maybe better eyepieces once you upgrade on size, keep your old ones can let the younger ones of the family use them. this hot weather has really put paid for me, very hazy and a couple mile from the city does not help, twenty mile from the coast also plays havoc and living near 7 large fishing lakes, so lots of mist and fog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Encountered a major problem. after some hour or so fighting webcam settings i have them bang on, but one major problem has came about. with my focus rack fully in i am unable to get a clear picture from scope. to what i can make out the focal plane is below the camera. at max in focus, i can just about make out the outlines of buildings. the camera sits to high above the focal plane ( light cone that comes to the eyepiece). now here is where i am stuck. we can not add a low profile focuser to the heritage 76. and there is no way that we can move the primary mirror forward up the tube to push light cone out of the focuser. so heres the idea, we take apart a 2x barlow ( the bottom part with lens) and add this onto the cameras film can tube, now i could be wrong, but i think this lens should change the focal plane of the light cone and make it longer and allow it to fall upon the camera. also allowing less focus in to be required. keep a gandering i shall try and work this problem over next coming week once barlow lens arrives. anything over 15ft away is out of focus with maxed in focuser. anything closer than 15ft is perfect, full focus, crisp clear pictures with a light IR hue from the filter/lens removal. so at this time telescope is acting like a microscope :s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Not very happy tonight, the moon is in its first stage, i have been looking forward, all week to seeing it, and icant get to my scope until tommorow, just hope the clouds stay away tommorow night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Not very happy tonight, the moon is in its first stage, i have been looking forward, all week to seeing it, and icant get to my scope until tommorow, just hope the clouds stay away tommorow night lol it is right outside my window, you are not tohappy think about me, i own a short sighted blooming telescope. yes fitting the frankenwebcam makes my 76mm mirror shortsighted. i now own a micro hubble lol. so i now have to wait till midweek to get a 2x barlow lens to see if i can correct the shortsighted telescope, good thing i will not need a rocket and space shuttle to fix my short sightedness. been said around tuesday weather will change and this heat will move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I hope so, my x2 barlow arrived this morning, just on the prowl for a 35mm film can, and im good to go, with the astro webcam I left the scope locked in the garage, and managed to leave the key at work this morning, so il have to habe a trip to work in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Wahay what a result, just been to the local asda, they have a photography counter there, asked if they had any spare film roll cans, the guy gave me 2 black ones foc, the rest were white, which i assumed would be no good for the cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Wahay what a result, just been to the local asda, they have a photography counter there, asked if they had any spare film roll cans, the guy gave me 2 black ones foc, the rest were white, which i assumed would be no good for the cam yup black are the ones. never hurts to ask good find buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Advice time, if i may ask, i have a 3mp web cam, which i have stripped down, below are some pics, il appologise in advance, as you may already have guessed, photography is not my strong point, nor is it apples, as the camera on the 3gs is poo This is the cam stripped, but with the focus lens still attached And here with the focus lens removed, im guessing the ir filter is on the end of the focus lens Now my question is, once the lens is removed, there is the threaded part still attached to the cam pcb, this can be removed with 2 screws, would i be best leaving this in place, as by my design, this part will sit in the film can, or shall i remove it, assuming removing it, will allow more light to hit the chip Edited October 2, 2011 by martleeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Pic 1 here you see your mainboard with sensor covered by lens. the lens screws into an adaptor. Pic 2: lens removed you can see a red/pink type plate this is our Infrared filter, you can keep this or remove. the lens screws into an adaptor plate and this plate screws onto the mainboard. we tend to leave the adaptor plate fitted. with your camera it looks to be a 1- 1.25 adaptor size. ebay sells webcam to telescope nose adaptors that push into the webcam plate adaptor. others will pull remove the lens units from the lens nose, then use this to connect camera to the film can. push out lenses - use the empty lense adaptor and screw this central into your film can, now screw the nosepiece and the conected filmcan onto your cameras nose plate adaptor. slip the whole unit into telescope and your fixed for primary. this is a " Mogg" telescope to webcam adaptor. notice the top part looks just like your cameras lens thread with a can glued on Edited October 2, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Thanks, i have removed the lens from the nose piece, left the ir filter in place, bored a hole in the bottom of the film can, and this is what i now have, all i have to do now, is secure the lens nose to the can, then fit the pcb into my camera housing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 technical but a needed to know subject. focal plane : is an area where a lens-mirror focuses the picture. with our telescopes we get two numbers, the first is our mirror size ie: 76 mm . The second number is our focal length ie: 300mm now let us take a parobolic mirror, this bounces the light back to a focal point, we call this a focal plane. our eye pieces sit in this area and allow us to view. light enters the telescope and is bounced back out of the telescope. the secondary mirror captures this light and bounces up the focuser tube. remember our focal length is 300mm, this means our focal point/plane will be 300mm infront of mirror. our secondary mirror bounces the light so our focal plane will be moved to inside the focuser. now with a webcam we cannot place it into the focuser tube, we mount it ontop. sometimes this means our focal point is to short ( telescope becomes shortsighted) to stop this we can add a barlow lens. this doubles our 300mm focal length to 600mm. and this also means our new focal plane is 600mm. so now our focal plane is 600mm away from the mirror and not 300mm. this means our old focal plane (focus spot) off 300mm has been shifted to 600mm and so moves it outside the focuser tube. so if you have a shortsighted telescope and it only see things very close, we can use a barlow lens to shift in the focal plane distance. and fix our telescopes short sightedness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Thanks, i have removed the lens from the nose piece, left the ir filter in place, bored a hole in the bottom of the film can, and this is what i now have, all i have to do now, is secure the lens nose to the can, then fit the pcb into my camera housing This is Awesome homebrewing. the IR filter stops infrared spoiling the shots, later for deep sky you may want to carefully remove the IR, this will define the red colour more. it also acts as a dust shield for the sensor to. just one thing. check camera works before you place into housing. screw the adaptor on. plug into pc and run webcam software. thats the bane getting everything done to find camera does not work, make sure the webcam ground cable is attached to the board and all connections are clipped into place. what we are looking for is the sensor is seeing light, slowly move hand over the can opening and watch screen, does it darken then lighten if so you are ready to go. Edited October 2, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martleeds Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Cheers, the cam works all ok, on thing i have noticed, in the nose piece, there were 2 lenses, both of which i have removed, so in theory, all i have left now is my ir filter, however when i screwed back in the nose piece to the adapter, i still had to manualy adjust the nose piece to focus, i thought there would be no focus at all, untill fitted to the focus tube? ah found the culprit, there appears to be a 3rd lens, which sits just in front of the ir filter Edited October 2, 2011 by martleeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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