spark from clutch bell area :doh:

[turtletom100]

Well I have shimmed up a flywheel nut. Installed new shoes and 1.1mm springs. Car idles well now, engine needs bit of tweaking as she dies with brake applied. But I haven't being able to take her out as o my fixed it this evening well the kid side of me come out and decided to try it again inside so I done the naughty thing lift her off the ground and give her bit of revs (didn't hold finger on full) but issue is I witnessed a spark exit around my clutch bell/spur gear area lol what could this be? Please don't say spring snapped lol

[turtletom100]

Idle ting:

What is the ting noise

[Anthoop]

What is the ting noise

Something on the flywheel contacting the clutch bell would be my guess...think you need to take the bell off again and have a look.

[Deafty]

As I mentioned before u need to make surer the clutchbell teeth are centred with the spur,.

 

Yours are not and will lead to premature wear.   As for spark have a look

[turtletom100]

As I mentioned before u need to make surer the clutchbell teeth are centred with the spur,. Yours are not and will lead to premature wear.   As for spark have a look

The only way I am able to get the spur gear central central to the clutch bell is if I shim out/pack the back of the spur but I have got all the correct washers.

[turtletom100]

Something on the flywheel contacting the clutch bell would be my guess...think you need to take the bell off again and have a look.

I have had a look and there is nothing in there other than possibly the shoes them self. The bell spins freely for ever and ever so it not bearing well I don't think it is and there's no grinding noise

[Deafty]

You raised the clutch nut didn't you!   Now the bell sits to far out,.

 

you need a different nut, I don't know how many times this has been said!

Edited November 2, 2014 by Deafty

[Tamiyacowboy]

what you need to understand is what is happening. 

 

the engine is ticking over, even so it means the crankshaft is turning.

the engine is vibrating in low wave, the engine is bolted to the chassis

and a clutch bell added. 

 

Now, have a look at this area i mention next, without removing the engine,

take your fingers and grip the clutch bell lightly. Go it ? ........ ok 

 

now try and move the clutch bell horizontal, IE try pull the clutch bell off the crankshaft.

do you notice and excessive movement . does it move back and fourth ? , a rattling clutch is saying either

its not shimmed out correct, or an end bearing is worn. and this will show as movement thats excessive and/or a rattle.

 

now still gripping that clutch bell  see if your can rock the clutch housing bell. does it rock like up down left right, if so this is sure sign

end bearing has gone to shot and your getting excessive movement and this is causing that rattle on idle. 

 

YOU may also find that this rattle does not happen as the clutch engages at a higher revs and the engine starts to vibrate at a higher frequancy, ie when its running along above 1/4 throttle.

 

one last thing to see if that nut is the problem, how much of a GAP do you have between the FLYWHEEL and the Bottom edge of the CLUTCH BELL in MM

you should not have a large space here it should be fairly close.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Tamiyacowboy

[turtletom100]

You raised the clutch nut didn't you! Now the bell sits to far out,.

you need a different nut, I don't know how many times this has been said!

The nut I had was a tall nut so I have replaced with the smaller nut and yes stuck a 2/3mm washer beneath this to make up the difference in the old nut.

Keep in saying need a new nut but have tried the 2 different ones the short ones are not correct as can't get the spring on the flywheel pole to enable use of the tool as it just pushes the spring out because the spring is not on the pole.

[turtletom100]

what you need to understand is what is happening. 

 

the engine is ticking over, even so it means the crankshaft is turning.

the engine is vibrating in low wave, the engine is bolted to the chassis

and a clutch bell added. 

 

Now, have a look at this area i mention next, without removing the engine,

take your fingers and grip the clutch bell lightly. Go it ? ........ ok 

 

now try and move the clutch bell horizontal, IE try pull the clutch bell off the crankshaft.

do you notice and excessive movement . does it move back and fourth ? , a rattling clutch is saying either

its not shimmed out correct, or an end bearing is worn. and this will show as movement thats excessive and/or a rattle.

 

now still gripping that clutch bell  see if your can rock the clutch housing bell. does it rock like up down left right, if so this is sure sign

end bearing has gone to shot and your getting excessive movement and this is causing that rattle on idle. 

 

YOU may also find that this rattle does not happen as the clutch engages at a higher revs and the engine starts to vibrate at a higher frequancy, ie when its running along above 1/4 throttle.

 

one last thing to see if that nut is the problem, how much of a GAP do you have between the FLYWHEEL and the Bottom edge of the CLUTCH BELL in MM

you should not have a large space here it should be fairly close.

Cheers Tamiyacowboy for your explanation in this I have done as you asked and looked at the movement around the clutch bell and there is next to no movement.

I have got this video as best I can to show this.

CB movement: http://youtu.be/V1WlnUH98I4

Also with regards to the gap between the clutch bell and the flywheel without getting a measuring tape out I'd say between 1 and 2mm. I don't know if this okie.

[turtletom100]

Well after comparing my gap between the bell and flywheel to a savage I would say that is fine I have took her out run a tank through and she is running fine got power, lovely idle with the controller setting in the middle starts 2nd/3rd pull, looking through the vents on the bell don't appear to be wearing the shoes down can still see black not silver. I think that will be alright if Tamiyacowboy could just let us know what he 5 hints 5o 5 he gap and movement in the bell it would be appreciated

[turtletom100]

Only other question I do have with regards to this is as Deafty pointed out above the spur teeth are not central with the clutch bell teeth (they make full contact but at the back of the clutch bell teeth)

So do I just stick a couple washers behind the spur/slipper pad at the back?

This isn't causing issues but it might further down the line so would rather prevent that from happening lol

[Anthoop]

Something on the flywheel contacting the clutch bell would be my guess...think you need to take the bell off again and have a look.

 

I have had a look and there is nothing in there other than possibly the shoes them self. The bell spins freely for ever and ever so it not bearing well I don't think it is and there's no grinding noise

I can see the engine will idle and that the clutch is disengaged at idle from the video...basically the engine runs and the wheels are not turning...

 

If the wheels are not turning then neither is the clutchbell...but the flywheel is turning...if the turning thing comes into contact with the non turning thing then there will be a sound.

 

With the engine running at idle when it is making the noise, try moving the bell around...what happens?

 

Are the top edge of the shoes actually contacting the edge of the (vented) bell randomly....the video of you wobbling the pinion seems to say that the bearings/shimming (in/out) seem to be workable...but remember that as things heat up they expand so at least allow a snick of clearance.

 

PS...think I have thought more about clutch problems in the past few days than I have ever actually had...there are plenty of things that can go wrong but they are easily fixed/diagnosed....usually.

[turtletom100]

I can see the engine will idle and that the clutch is disengaged at idle from the video...basically the engine runs and the wheels are not turning...

If the wheels are not turning then neither is the clutchbell...but the flywheel is turning...if the turning thing comes into contact with the non turning thing then there will be a sound.

With the engine running at idle when it is making the noise, try moving the bell around...what happens?

Are the top edge of the shoes actually contacting the edge of the (vented) bell randomly....the video of you wobbling the pinion seems to say that the bearings/shimming (in/out) seem to be workable...but remember that as things heat up they expand so at least allow a snick of clearance.

PS...think I have thought more about clutch problems in the past few days than I have ever actually had...there are plenty of things that can go wrong but they are easily fixed/diagnosed....usually.

Firstly sorry about the questions lol your help throughout had being appreciated.

With regards to the noise from the bell when she is running I will make a video tommorow. :-)

With the shoes if you look through the gaps/vents the shoes don't even show signs of wear yet (no silver markings/scratches) so I am tempted to say that they are not scraping the bell.

I'm no genius that's for sure when it comes down to this I've only being in the rc world for 3 months and jumped in the deep end with converting a brushed to brushless then buying a non runner and getting her running I have also just paid 46.50 for another firestorm roller (no engine, shell, rx or tx) but have got the stock flywheel, clutch shoes/spring, flywheel nut, bearing, clutch bell and air filter. All she needs is a engine, shell, tx and rx, and the right dog bone or cvd (not too sure why they called) I have the old engine that I got for the flywheel and got a spare shell here so hoping it will be quite a cheap fix. :-) (I k ow gone off subject a bit here lol)

[turtletom100]

Also I noticed when I took the firestoem out where I have used the 1.1mm springs I have to pull the throttle a bit more to get movement but I am assuming this is just thicker springs causing this.

[Tamiyacowboy]

if you have here idling good and she is not pulling when placed on floor thats all good. 

 

shoes take a while to wear, but if they are still black it means they are gripping and not slipping. its a good thing. 

 

harder springs mean the engine now needs to rotate at a higher speed to throw the shoes out.

this is NORMAL and you will get used to it.

 

the gapping looks fine, its not excessive and your unable to see much if not anything of the shoes.

this to is a good thing. 

 

NOW. what you need to do is put the machine through some testing, ie NOT BASHING IT !!!

run her up and down the street/ dirt track / grass verge etc etc, get everything settled down.

dont be to agressive, no mad full throttle doughnuts etc etc, give her a week of mild use. 

 

after the week is up, have a good check, look at those shoes through the bell vents, they should have started to shine up a bit as the surfaces

wear and bed in. after each run check the temps does that clutch housing burn the fingers when touched. is it still nice and tight and has it settled.

so check that gap between clutch bell and the flywheel, have a scan at those shoe faces.

 

if all is well, start to ramp up the bashing, dont go mental, just put engine and drive train through so beef, so a few small jumps,

some flat out open throttle runs and some on and off the throttle stabbing. re-check and if all well your good to go. 

 

 

NITROS need CARE, you need to check the working mechanical areas ever so often to catch problems before they happen,

a rusty clutch  spring shows its going to give up sooner than later, a very shiney shoe and the machine pulling early on low throttle is a sign shoes are 

worn and could do with replacing same as springs. another one is your giving throttle, but the car dont move, either the spring/s have broken or the shoes are worn to deep.

 

electric cars are more easy to care for motor wise, they just a throw in and forget, but nitro's need a little love and care, do this and they last a long time.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Tamiyacowboy

[turtletom100]

if you have here idling good and she is not pulling when placed on floor thats all good. 

 

shoes take a while to wear, but if they are still black it means they are gripping and not slipping. its a good thing. 

 

harder springs mean the engine now needs to rotate at a higher speed to throw the shoes out.

this is NORMAL and you will get used to it.

 

the gapping looks fine, its not excessive and your unable to see much if not anything of the shoes.

this to is a good thing. 

 

NOW. what you need to do is put the machine through some testing, ie NOT BASHING IT !!!

run her up and down the street/ dirt track / grass verge etc etc, get everything settled down.

dont be to agressive, no mad full throttle doughnuts etc etc, give her a week of mild use. 

 

after the week is up, have a good check, look at those shoes through the bell vents, they should have started to shine up a bit as the surfaces

wear and bed in. after each run check the temps does that clutch housing burn the fingers when touched. is it still nice and tight and has it settled.

so check that gap between clutch bell and the flywheel, have a scan at those shoe faces.

 

if all is well, start to ramp up the bashing, dont go mental, just put engine and drive train through so beef, so a few small jumps,

some flat out open throttle runs and some on and off the throttle stabbing. re-check and if all well your good to go. 

 

 

NITROS need CARE, you need to check the working mechanical areas ever so often to catch problems before they happen,

a rusty clutch  spring shows its going to give up sooner than later, a very shiney shoe and the machine pulling early on low throttle is a sign shoes are 

worn and could do with replacing same as springs. another one is your giving throttle, but the car dont move, either the spring/s have broken or the shoes are worn to deep.

 

electric cars are more easy to care for motor wise, they just a throw in and forget, but nitro's need a little love and care, do this and they last a long time.

Once again thank you very much and I apologise for all the aggro throughout this but hopefully got it sorted now.

I have run one rank of fuel through her may have given her the odd bit of power (which after reading what you have put I am kinda regretting) hopefully I will take her out either tommorow or the weekend weather dependant and do as you say just up and down a few times and check the temperature of the bell. I am assuming it shouldn't be unbearable as this would mean the shows are rubbing to much.

I have ordered a firestorm roller as well so hoping to drop the other engine in and test that out nightmare really after the hassle I had but as they say "practice makes perfect" :-) lol

Once again Tamiyacowboy you have being a star thankyou very much. :-)