Brand new Kyosho GX15,Back plate top screw holes go strait though to crankcase chamber? Is it faulty as i can't get it to start

[hicks451]

Hi all, I have just built a brand new Kyosho GX15 with all the parts bought seperately but when it came to building it i noticed that the two top screw holes for were the back plate screw in had gone strait through to were the piston and cylinder slid in on the inside chamber and so i wanted to find out if the crank case was faulty as i built it with every part brand new but i can not get it started at all. I have tried heating it up to the right temp first and have tried a No.6 and No.8 plug but it won't start no matter how much i have tried and even leaning it out plus all the tricks of the trade have had no success I know this sounds stupid but i thought with the screws going in tight plus some lock tight it would be ok but now i'm starting to think the crank case is faulty and yet it was a brand new case that was still sealed in the bag and had never been touched or had a scratch on it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as i put my first GX15 to one side as i was having issues breaking that in and now i am having issues with my brand new GX15 To say i'm gutted is an understatement and even though these are my first engine builds i've had no issues breaking down and running my old GX12. Thanks in advance.

[Anthoop]

The holes going straight through should not be a problem if the screws have threadlock or sealer to prevent a leak...and the screws are not long enough to protrude into the engine. 

 

Is it definitely getting fuel?....Is it flooding-is the plug wet?

Is the glow stick charged fully?

 

Other than that you could always try dripping a bit of fuel straight into the plug hole and/or down the carb.

[hicks451]

Hi mate thanks for reply. Yea fuel is getting in ok, The glow plugs are all good and the glow plug starter is fully charged. I'm getting it up to temp before starting as well. I'm breaking it in so i have it set with three turns out from closed like it says in the manual and i'm even leaning it out slightly and watching out so it doesn't flood. Its turning over ok with the pull start and it isn't getting jammed or tight after a few pulls. I am completely puzzled then if the holes aint an issue if sealed

[Anthoop]

Open the throttle gap/trim a bit...lean it...pour fuel in...whatever you have to do to get it running and then as soon as it starts up try to keep it running....probably it will be revving high...instantly close the throttle a bit...but try to keep it running...you can gently ease the mixture settings back to rich when it is first running.

Ensure you are not heating the carb. area too much if you are using a hot air gun/hair dryer...if the plug is wet then you know fuel is getting there...

New engines can be a pain and if it does not start in the first attempts then you can bet that things are going to be tough...stick with it.

[hicks451]

LOL Thanks bud i really appreciate the help and support as i defo need it right now lol.  But i aint easily beaten and will keep on trying intill i get it sorted I will keep you posted though and will try the tricks you listed and hopefully that will start the bloody thing LOL  All the best bud  

[hicks451]

Anthoop would there be an issue if i didn't have enough gaskets between the Crankcase and Heatsink? The reason i ask is that i'm useing one thick gold gasket as it mentions on the build manual but some times you have 2 very thin ones as well so i'm just wondering if that might be the problem? But when i was cleaning every part for both my engines i ended up loosing one in the garden when i was leaving stuff out there to dry. I had the two wraped up in kitchen towls with the back plate holding it down so it didn't blow away or bend them out of shape but some strong wind must of come along as when i went to get all the stuff the kitchen towl was on the other side of the garden with nothing inside but i managed to find one on one side of the garden but i couldn't find the other one no matter were i looked So would it be better to add the thick gold gasket as well as one thin one or is it ok with just the thick gold gasket? Or the gold and two thin gaskets? I will just have to buy new ones if its best to have all three lol Thanks mate

Edited April 17, 2014 by hicks451

[Anthoop]

The head shims are important. Looking at the manual here (4th down-exploded view) http://www.kyosho.com/eng/support/instructionmanual/engine/engine_index.html it shows two shims...

With that part number I find this- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kyosho-74016-02-Head-Gasket-GXR15-/131110371472 which tells me they are the same thickness...but not how thick and that is the important thing.

If you can measure the thickness of the one you have then multiply that by two and that is the clearance that the manual recommends...if the clearance with the thick one you are using is too large then it is possible that would cause problems.

[hicks451]

Hi mate thanks for the reply it's much appreciated and i'm grateful for all your help, Good news, I managed to find the lost one on the other side of the garden so i now have the two thin ones (74016-02) as well as the thick gold one.   I have measured both the gold one and the two thin ones and the gold one is half a MM thick and the two thin ones are slightly thinner than the gold one when they are put together. By the looks of the GXR15 manual i should use the two thin ones but on the GX12-15 manual it says just one shim. What i will do is just try the two thin ones like it says on the GXR15 manual to see if that might solve the problem. Thanks for all your advice as i'm learning all the time so even the most stupid questions of a noob i need to ask LOL Hopefully that should do the trick and i will keep you posted on how i get on. I had no trouble with the pull start getting to tight and it ticked over ok but just wouldn't start or even burst up once and there was definitely fuel going though ok as there was some leaking from the exhaust. Well fingers crossed as i'm going to get it sorted tonight and then hopefully i will have more success in the morning. Many thanks Anthoop you have been a gent and all the best mate

[Anthoop]

Never a daft question fella...and good find.

Try the two shims..good luck. 

[hicks451]

Hi mate, Sorry i haven't left any replies this weekend as a friend of mine past away on friday so it's been a bit of a sad weekend for me and the family. I did try again earlier with just the two shims but still no joy so i am totaly out of idea's I sealed the two screw holes as well so i really can't understand why it wont start at all? Both my glow plugs and charger are working perfectly and i am always heating it up first before i try to start it yet what ever i try it just wont start at all. I have no issues with my GX12 but when it comes to the GX15 they just dont want to go at all I am tightening everything ok so there shouldnt be any leaks and the carb is working perfectly as fuel is running though ok as well. So i'm at a loss right now and i can't understand why they just dont want to start. Well i am pretty fed up right now so i think i am going to give it a rest before i end up putting a hammer to them LOL but maybe i will give them another go in a few days once i get some insperation back. Anyway many thanks for all your help you have been  complete gent and i'm very grateful for all your help and support!!! All the best Anthoop

[hicks451]

LOL You aint going to beleave this. I gave it one last try and i managed to get it started It wont run on the base settings for breaking it in but i have opened the throttle valve adjustment to just over 1mm but can only get it started with the needle valve at just over 2 and 3 quarters turns. Once i try to open it to 3 turns like it says in the manual it just cuts out. Would it be ok to run it like that for the first tank? I really can't beleave it got up running and was well happy when it finely got going man i cant beleave it I'm smilling like a cheshire cat LOL Hopefully i can start the break in now with these settings i have i just want to make sure it will be good to go without damaging the piston and sleeve. Thanks mate

 

Needle valve 2 and 3 quarter turns

throttle valve gap about 1.5 mm maybe 2 mm

[Anthoop]

Sorry to hear about your friend...never fun.

 

Great you got it running though.

Looking at the manual I linked earlier it is very confusing...on page 4 it says 2.5 turns...on pg 5- 3.5 turns.....am I missing something there?...anyways no matter.

You seem to have tried 3.5...but nearer to 2.5 works...you want it to be running rich so, start it, leave plug warmer on, try richening a tadge...if it stalls then it is rich enough. A rich engine sounds/looks rich....so sound- gurgly/grrrr/glug/bwaaa...and look- fluid spitting out exhaust pipe.

 

When the engine is running it is easy to adjust needles/throttle gap one way and the other...if revs drop and it dies then we have too much fuel and not enough air...and if it revs high then dies, then vice versa...basically. 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Anthoop

[hicks451]

Hi mate, Many thanks for your mention about my friend it's much appreciated Anthoop    After all the attempts trying to ge it started i managed to snap the pull start lol but luckerly it was right next to the knot on the inside so i should be able to repair it with no probs so i haven't really tried again since we last spoke but It seems to start up a lot better now but will only do it when the air intake is open nearer 2mm which is making it run alot faster than i would like on it's first proper tanks but i'm running it very rich to prevent any damage and i am plugging the exhaust to stop it instead of line pinching so i haven't let it run a full tank without touching it yet.  I also need another bit of noob advice regarding the fuel lines and another one that some people might laugh at but i thought it might be good to ask just so i know. Does it help if they are a certain length and would it help if both are the same length? The reason i ask is just so i know if that would have any effect or not? Sorry for the stupid question but i want to learn everything i can no matter how silly it sounds  and some times it's not easy to google or find things like that on the forums and i haven't got a paper manual so i can't really measure the right lenth that they recommend.  LOL Well i am looking forward to trying again this weekend and hopefully i can get the ball rolling to get the break in finely completed and it has to be one of the longest noob break ins on record Ha Ha. Any way thanks again bud and all the best.

[Anthoop]

Fuel line and exhaust line length can sometimes affect things if they are too short...a rule of thumb would be at least 6 inches for a .21 engine with a 125cc tank...you have a smaller engine and tank...so maybe 4-5" will be fine...having said that I have run shorter than that without problem but if you consider 4-5 as a minimum then you should not have a problem.

Take all the time you have to...no rush...it is all good learning.

[hicks451]

Thanks mate, I appreciate all the help and you have taught me a lot and it has all come in handy because i can finely get her started first time around and have managed to work out how much fuel to air to add. I dont think you can get the engine started with just a 1mm gap and 3 turns as it just wouldn't go no matter what but i have opened the air intake in small increments to get the right balance and now i've fully got the hang on what to do. I have managed the first two full tanks on a rich setting and so i'm going to do one more to be on the safe side and then i will start to lean her out and get the air intake to the recommended 1mm. Well at least my patience  paid off and i never gave up LOL and now i can at least enjoy myself instead of going mental LOL. I will keep you posted bud but i owe you big time and if i ever get the chance the first few pints are on me    Have a good one Anthoop and all the best!!!

[Anthoop]

No need for thanks...I am glad that some of my blah has managed to help...starting/running these engines can be a pain and it only gets easier once you get a little experience and even then it can be testing at times....

I believe the best way to understand most things is to have hands on experience. You can read all of my (and everyone's blah) but in the end only you can make sense of it all by applying the information given....and it seems like you have done that...so give yourself a pat on the back.

 

Oh..and I drink wine ...by the glass (well, bottle really)...I do not drink pints.

 

Get it run-in and leaned up...remember to tune when engine warmed up...the throttle gap ("get the air intake to the recommended 1mm. ") is our final adjustment really...all it does is prevent the engine revving high enough to engage the clutch, so, set as needed.

[hicks451]

LOL Well a couple of bottles of wine it is then Anthoop lol. I've managed to get the engine started ok but only when the air intake is nearly fully open? So what i did was take the carb off and took it all apart to rebuild it just incase there was something wrong with it as i got that one from another engine i bought and didn't check it first time around because it looked ok to begin with but i think it was done up to tight on a couple of joints. Hopefully i have sorted the issue now so i can get it to start with just the 1mm gap and i will try again tomorrow afternoon. I have managed to get a couple of tanks done but only by starting and stopping the engine when i have been trying to adjust the settings. I have also only been stopping it by plugging the exhuast and not line pinching as i've read that can damage the engine at this point in the break in period so hopefully i havent caused anything so far. Well at least it's running and all i need to do is sort the carb and settings and i will keep you posted on how i get on. Have a great week and weekend mate and i will speak to you soon, All the best Anthoop

[hicks451]

Just as i thought mate, I completely took the carb apart and gave it a good clean and then put it back together again the correct way and now i can finely get the right settings sorted I'm not to sure of the parts name but the part that goes into the main body of the carb was screwed in to tight so it was effectively blocking the idle air gap and so that's why it would only start when the gap was fully open. Now i can get the correct settings of 1mm idle gap and 3 turns on the throttle valve adjustment I really dont know why i didn't try and sort plus check that part from the start and if i did it would of sorted all my problems strait away but were i thought it was ok and just added it to the new parts that's why i have had so many issues trying to get it running.   But saying that if i didn't have all these issues i wouldn't of learned as much as i have and so i'm pleased anyway as i now know how to troubleshoot most things when it comes to the Kyosho GX15. I have read so many threads and posts with the same issues i've had yet i haven't heard one reply saying to check the carb so i'm 100% sure that if anyone else has the same issues that i had they should check that part of the carb to see if it's been screwed in just a little to much and then just readjust that part and then they shouldn't have any problems getting it started but make sure you get it as close to the middle as you can without it blocking the air gap to much so theres plenty of room for the air to flow freely. Well thanks again for all your help Anthoop you have been a massive help and i really appreciate all the help and support you have given me and if anyone else has this engine or has any issues trying to get it started please just PM me or leave a reply and i will try my best to help out. Plus thanks to everyone else who has tried to help me as this is defo the best forum i know of to get a friendly responce no matter how nooby it is and i think some of the other forums need to take note as i basicly get no responses or very little and so i doubt i will be useing them again. Anyway i'm just about to get the ball rolling again and i will keep you posted on how i get on with the break in period now i shouldn't have any issues getting the correct settings. Many thanks and all the best. Hicks

[Anthoop]

Good stuff.

This forum is definitely good for help...I am happy to have a stab at any problem in the hope it will help...it may take me 5 minutes to diagnose it if I had it in hand...but it is the other person doing the diagnosing/fixing...hands on experience rocks.

 

Have fun....long weekend yay.