New ARRMA Teaser....

1 hour ago, J.K said:

I kinda agree. I like Vas but haven't been watching him for long. This very much stinks of "they're not giving me any more models to review so i'll throw em under the bus".

 

Loving the honesty though! 

 

Could it be more of a dog than the V1 Xmaxx?? 

 

Nothing can be as bad as the V1 X-Maxx!

 

I thought he was holding back if I'm honest, he could've been a lot more brutal. 

 

But yeah, will he get first refusal on future releases? 🤔

Version 1s are usually pretty bad.

I think I said it earlier in this thread, but it's the same when a new uArch is released for a CPU or GPU, remember the first OLEDs? (I do, worked for a company that sold devices with some of the early ones...), how about the first Google/iPhone?
Kinks need to be worked out in the early days.

I wasn't following the hobby when the original XMaxx come out so I can't compare to the Kr8ton, but just like when Apple strengthened the frame in their big iPhones to stop them bending, it should be quite clear on the version2 where they saw the problem.

If you actually sit and listen and read the guys body language you can clearly see he was uncomfortable doing this vid. Now I took a couple of bits from this, one being the guy admits to being deceptive by hiding the bent tower from the start. He had it 2 weeks prior to release and knew full well it had problems but still let folks go buy it ! Kevin Talbot unboxed it broke it and showed it straight away as he has no ties, so you have to now question Vassos real honesty and after the leaked photos etc things aren’t looking good ! He was clearly annoyed at loosing shipping fees and nit getting another new freebie but now imagine how others feel loosing the cost of the trucks he reviews, sadly this shows a greedy side to the guy imo. 
 

 

Makes Arrma look real bad that they knew of the issues prior to release but still went ahead and took folks hard earned. Folks complain about other companies ethics etc and praise Arrma but this will certainly have an impact on that squeaky clean image. You have to know think how many other reviewers have to cover things up prior to release or try and brush things under the carpet when given a free Arrma ? 
 

I wonder if this was why a lot of reviewers stated they had to buy the truck ?  When it was clear they hadn’t at all 🤔 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by mydoddy69

But all stated that they did have to pay for them? That's the gist I got. 

 

I'll agree, he did look uncomfortable, he wanted to point out the failings, but without an outright "it's crap". 

 

I wouldn't say it's crap, or maybe I just don't want to say it, but it really needs addressing. Arrma have been fairly quick in the past, but somehow I think Horizon will say "no, you're not spending a penny more". Arrma have to answer to them now. 

But all stated that they did have to pay for them? That's the gist I got. 
 
I'll agree, he did look uncomfortable, he wanted to point out the failings, but without an outright "it's crap". 
 
I wouldn't say it's crap, or maybe I just don't want to say it, but it really needs addressing. Arrma have been fairly quick in the past, but somehow I think Horizon will say "no, you're not spending a penny more". Arrma have to answer to them now. 

I think it's quite clearly not crap. It's just flawed, which is disappointing given the opportunity they had starting a new platform.

Plenty of bash videos of people having a great time with the truck and everyone that owns one says they like it despite its issues and the extra investment they had to make.

As long as you know what you're getting into, and how much it REALLY costs, it's still a good car.

22 minutes ago, Paul Busby said:

I think it's quite clearly not crap. It's just flawed, which is disappointing given the opportunity they had starting a new platform.

Plenty of bash videos of people having a great time with the truck and everyone that owns one says they like it despite its issues and the extra investment they had to make.

As long as you know what you're getting into, and how much it REALLY costs, it's still a good car.

 

Yeah, they're all flawed to some degree, just a shame they didn't do better. Hopefully a better chassis will be released and solve the worst of it. 

All the yters freebie's undoubtedly come with "conditions", I get the strong impression Vas's  relationship with Arrma has ended, and now he can finally let us know he deliberately hid the bent chassis, while casually portraying himself as the only unbiased yt ever.  He even bought an xmaxx recently 🤔  I notice Thomas Peterson long time Arrma fanatic has jumped ship completely, and now routinely has digs at Arrma's designs.

 

Another big Arrma freebie benefactor Rich Duperbash, makes some amazing RC videos for sure, but he i now runs 100% exclusively Armma, he wasn't in the past he ran Tekno, Proline amongst others, so yeah takes these free cars Rich, but don't even think about filming any other brand 😆

Edited February 2, 2020 by RcBEN9

All the yters freebie's undoubtedly come with "conditions", I get the strong impression Vas's  relationship with Arrma has ended, and now he can finally let us know he deliberately hid the bent chassis, while casually portraying himself as the only unbiased yt ever.  He even bought an xmaxx recently [emoji848]  I notice Thomas Peterson long time Arrma fanatic has jumped ship completely, and now routinely has digs at Arrma's designs.
 
Another big Arrma freebie benefactor Rich Duperbash, makes some amazing RC videos for sure, but he i now runs 100% exclusively Armma, he wasn't in the past he ran Tekno, Proline amongst others, so yeah takes these free cars Rich, but don't even think about filming any other brand [emoji38]

I don't think Rich did anything to hide the damage though?

He pretty much immediately stuck a carbon re-enforcement tube around the T2T brace once he spotted it so he clearly wasn't a good boy.

I think it's easy to see a conspiracy of foul play if you're looking for it, but at the same time you have to apply the logic consistently.

57 minutes ago, Paul Busby said:

I don't think Rich did anything to hide the damage though?

He pretty much immediately stuck a carbon re-enforcement tube around the T2T brace once he spotted it so he clearly wasn't a good boy.

I think it's easy to see a conspiracy of foul play if you're looking for it, but at the same time you have to apply the logic consistently.

 

No he didn't hide it when asked (but he didn't mention it either un-asked). 

 

Not to mention, he's with M2C. 

 

The guys who fix the  Kraton after it bends. 

3 hours ago, Paul Busby said:

I think it's quite clearly not crap. It's just flawed, which is disappointing given the opportunity they had starting a new platform.

Plenty of bash videos of people having a great time with the truck and everyone that owns one says they like it despite its issues and the extra investment they had to make.

As long as you know what you're getting into, and how much it REALLY costs, it's still a good car.

 There are plenty of folks that bought it and sold it and where very anger with it so no not everyone that owns or owned one was happy 

 

Heres the thing when you get freebies you can’t go blasting the brands flaws you can skip over them or try to play them down which clearly he admits to doing imo so if he has to do it then I’m guessing all others have to follow suit you don’t bite the hand that feeds you ! 
 

Look at  what he points out to be an issue how can you say it’s not crap and just flawed having to replace not one but nearly all key electrical components along with the backbone of the car the chassis is not just a little flaw it’s a major screw up imo

 
You do have to laugh though once these YouTubers jump ship they soon start putting the boot in TP prime example and now the Australian 😂😂 mind you this guy always manages to come up smelling of roses 😂

 

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, mydoddy69 said:

 There are plenty of folks that bought it and sold it and where very anger with it so no not everyone that owns or owned one was happy 

 

Heres the thing when you get freebies you can’t go blasting the brands flaws you can skip over them or try to play them down which clearly he admits to doing imo so if he has to do it then I’m guessing all others have to follow suit you don’t bite the hand that feeds you ! 
 

Look at  what he points out to be an issue how can you say it’s not crap and just flawed having to replace not one but nearly all key electrical components along with the backbone of the car the chassis is not just a little flaw it’s a major screw up imo

 
You do have to laugh though once these YouTubers jump ship they soon start putting the boot in TP prime example and now the Australian 😂😂 mind you this guy always manages to come up smelling of roses 😂

 

 

 

 

 

Christ, fine not EVERYONE is happy.... but I think you're being unnecessarily pedantic.

 

The same can be said for any product sold ever, there is people unhappy with it and sell it immediately.

 

I didn't say, or even suggest it was a little bit flawed. I just said it was flawed which made it disappointing given the opportunity they had. I still don't think it's at a level I'd call it crap, its just a disappointing version 1, the same as people seem to suggest about the XMaxx V1. If it was crap then it would be getting slammed from all directions, but it's actually not, there is a lot of happy customers, most of which were going to mod it regardless.... like i said, if you know that it really isnt a 1k truck, and is more likely a 1.5 or 2k truck by the time you have upgraded everything so it will do what you would want to do with a 6s Kraton, then you'll probably be quite happy.

 

I'd buy an XMaxx or DBXLE.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Paul Busby

24 minutes ago, Paul Busby said:

Christ, fine not EVERYONE is happy.... but I think you're being unnecessarily pedantic.

 

The same can be said for any product sold ever, there is people unhappy with it and sell it immediately.

 

I didn't say, or even suggest it was a little bit flawed. I just said it was flawed which made it disappointing given the opportunity they had. I still don't think it's at a level I'd call it crap, its just a disappointing version 1, the same as people seem to suggest about the XMaxx V1. If it was crap then it would be getting slammed from all directions, but it's actually not, there is a lot of happy customers, most of which were going to mod it regardless.... like i said, if you know that it really isnt a 1k truck, and is more likely a 1.5 or 2k truck by the time you have upgraded everything so it will do what you would want to do with a 6s Kraton, then you'll probably be quite happy.

 

I'd buy an XMaxx or DBXLE.

 

Here's the problem, i rarely agree with mydoddy but in this case he's right. 

 

The truck isn't flawed. It's crap. And Arrma doesn't have an excuse either. You brought up the X-Maxx v1, but i don't actually think this is comparable. The X-Maxx was let down by too weak/cheap electrics. If that'd be the case on the Kraton, i would've been with you. It's not. 

 

The problem with the Kraton isn't new. It's not a new design, that's what i mean by under-engineered. It's a scaled up Kraton 6s, done poorly. The Kraton as a platform is known for two things: being one of the best bashers out there, and bending since v1. The v1 was also known to catch fire (much like the X-Maxx). Nobody is harping on the Kraton catching fire, because: while being ridiculously annoying, electrics being too weak is just something we as customers need (and in fact, can) to look out for. It got fixed. 

 

The Kraton is also bending since v1. If that doesn't get fixed in all these years and now the newest one is bending too? Nah. That's not "a little flawed", that's crap. And shouldn't be excused with "well if you through another grand at it, it's great maybe". It's not even that i expect an RC to never get damaged by anything at all - but the Kraton 8s clearly bends too easily, something that could've been mitigated with some degree of engineering. May it be a second stiffening plate (much like the DBXL-E that isn't indestructible either, but certainly holds up twice as good), or using the proper material, and learning from the fact that the T2T brace is detrimental. 

 

We called out the Kraton 8s bending prior to release. That's why it's crap. Because it still suffers from the problem that all Kratons have, just much worse because it's amplified due to the weight of the 8s Kraton. Put it this way. You got a truck that you know bends. Now you "design" a bigger, badder and more importantly, considerably heavier truck, and put it on the same material/plate design that you already know is bending. If that's not crap, i don't know what is. It's as if they would've put the original 6s ESC in the v2 X-Maxx. 

 

No RC is without flaw (not the X-Maxx v2, not the DBXL-E 2.0 etc) - but most of these flaws are flaws specific to that particular truck, not through the entire range. 

 

At least that's my problem with it, as someone who thinks that Arrma currently has by far the best range for most people - unlike other people, i have no qualms of calling out craptastic stuff though. May it be the laughable brakes on my DBXL-E 2.0, the battery tray and servo on my XXL2E which made it impossible to run the truck conveniently, microservos on the TRX4 etc. Or, a bending £1000 truck.

 

edit: hell, they could've fixed it by selling a second version of both the 6s and 8s Kraton called "the Kraton 6s/8s Pro" that comes with a 7075 T6 chassis rather than a 6061 T6, £100 more for the 6s version and £200 more for the 8s version - done. Leaves the normal range for "general bashing" and the "pro range" for people who love to send their trucks properly. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by m4inbrain

and it's even more disappointing that you paying such money for 1:6 scale car with 1:8 scale drivetrain and electronics  

I don't think the T2T brace is detrimental, but rather it's poorly executed. They've used plastic rod-ends to attach the braces to plastic gearbox housings, all attached to a flimsy chassis. 

 

In profile, you should see a good strong box section. However, all that plastic and weak ally just ain't enough. It bends. 

 

This thread's getting heated again, but good to see discussion!

4 hours ago, m4inbrain said:

 

Here's the problem, i rarely agree with mydoddy but in this case he's right. 

 

The truck isn't flawed. It's crap. And Arrma doesn't have an excuse either. You brought up the X-Maxx v1, but i don't actually think this is comparable. The X-Maxx was let down by too weak/cheap electrics. If that'd be the case on the Kraton, i would've been with you. It's not. 

 

The problem with the Kraton isn't new. It's not a new design, that's what i mean by under-engineered. It's a scaled up Kraton 6s, done poorly. The Kraton as a platform is known for two things: being one of the best bashers out there, and bending since v1. The v1 was also known to catch fire (much like the X-Maxx). Nobody is harping on the Kraton catching fire, because: while being ridiculously annoying, electrics being too weak is just something we as customers need (and in fact, can) to look out for. It got fixed. 

 

The Kraton is also bending since v1. If that doesn't get fixed in all these years and now the newest one is bending too? Nah. That's not "a little flawed", that's crap. And shouldn't be excused with "well if you through another grand at it, it's great maybe". It's not even that i expect an RC to never get damaged by anything at all - but the Kraton 8s clearly bends too easily, something that could've been mitigated with some degree of engineering. May it be a second stiffening plate (much like the DBXL-E that isn't indestructible either, but certainly holds up twice as good), or using the proper material, and learning from the fact that the T2T brace is detrimental. 

 

We called out the Kraton 8s bending prior to release. That's why it's crap. Because it still suffers from the problem that all Kratons have, just much worse because it's amplified due to the weight of the 8s Kraton. Put it this way. You got a truck that you know bends. Now you "design" a bigger, badder and more importantly, considerably heavier truck, and put it on the same material/plate design that you already know is bending. If that's not crap, i don't know what is. It's as if they would've put the original 6s ESC in the v2 X-Maxx. 

 

No RC is without flaw (not the X-Maxx v2, not the DBXL-E 2.0 etc) - but most of these flaws are flaws specific to that particular truck, not through the entire range. 

 

At least that's my problem with it, as someone who thinks that Arrma currently has by far the best range for most people - unlike other people, i have no qualms of calling out craptastic stuff though. May it be the laughable brakes on my DBXL-E 2.0, the battery tray and servo on my XXL2E which made it impossible to run the truck conveniently, microservos on the TRX4 etc. Or, a bending £1000 truck.

 

edit: hell, they could've fixed it by selling a second version of both the 6s and 8s Kraton called "the Kraton 6s/8s Pro" that comes with a 7075 T6 chassis rather than a 6061 T6, £100 more for the 6s version and £200 more for the 8s version - done. Leaves the normal range for "general bashing" and the "pro range" for people who love to send their trucks properly. 

 
I got to get it right sooner or later 😂😂😂😂😂

I don't think the T2T brace is detrimental, but rather it's poorly executed. They've used plastic rod-ends to attach the braces to plastic gearbox housings, all attached to a flimsy chassis. 
 
In profile, you should see a good strong box section. However, all that plastic and weak ally just ain't enough. It bends. 
 
This thread's getting heated again, but good to see discussion!

I don't think it's getting particularly heated. Lot of people with more experience that me on here and so far everyone has been super helpful.
Doddy with my Tekno and Brain holding my hand generally while I empty my bank account.

I also don't really think any of us disagree, we just have different perspective of when things cross the "crap" line. Or perhaps what the "crap" line actually is... Which is subjective anyway.
Out the box, the car doesn't come close to expectations, I think it's fairly safe say that's as objective as you can get, without being technically objective.

11 minutes ago, Paul Busby said:

I don't think it's getting particularly heated. Lot of people with more experience that me on here and so far everyone has been super helpful.
Doddy with my Tekno and Brain holding my hand generally while I empty my bank account.

I also don't really think any of us disagree, we just have different perspective of when things cross the "crap" line. Or perhaps what the "crap" line actually is... Which is subjective anyway.
Out the box, the car doesn't come close to expectations, I think it's fairly safe say that's as objective as you can get, without being technically objective.

 

Well, I felt it was getting argumentative, that's all. 

 

Out the box it's very slow and prone to bending. So I guess those two faults alone could earn it crap status? The X-Maxx is not fault free, but it's fast and quite durable. 

I guess its personal opinion on how we define "crap".

 

The Kraton 8s is a £900 car that WILL (probably) need a new chassis or 2 at £120 a pop after some fairly insignificant bashing.

The V1 Xmaxx was a £900 car that would thermal if you looked at it funny and the longest I got a diff to survive was one and a half sets of packs. Trouble is, everybody had the same issue and replacements were sold out worldwide.

 

The above makes both those rigs crap IMO.

 

The question on my mind is what kind of testing do these rigs go through before they're released to the consumer? Did Arrma genuinely not know about the bendy chassis? Did Traxxas genuinely not know that their flagship model would spontaneously combust on just 6s power?

 

Feels like they design 'em, build 'em and ship 'em, nothing more.

Looking at some of the mods to the motor systems in the Facebook groups is proving entertaining at least.

 

getting pinions that fit is clearly a challenge.

 

we all know what Arrma should fix in v2... what do you think they will fix?

6 hours ago, Tug said:

I don't think the T2T brace is detrimental, but rather it's poorly executed. They've used plastic rod-ends to attach the braces to plastic gearbox housings, all attached to a flimsy chassis. 

 

In profile, you should see a good strong box section. However, all that plastic and weak ally just ain't enough. It bends. 

 

This thread's getting heated again, but good to see discussion!

 

It is though - because the chassis itself is too weak. All the T2T brace does is bending the shock towers outwards when the chassis gives in (but to be fair, it's too weak for that anyway since it bends usually with the chassis together). That's the good outcome. The bad outcome happened to i think Duperbash, where the brace broke the bottom composite braces because the chassis flexed, but the towers didn't. It's just a bad idea, the brace reinforces the shock towers - but that's not what's bending. 

 

It's not really heated lol. 

 

3 hours ago, mydoddy69 said:

 
I got to get it right sooner or later 😂😂😂😂😂

 

You know what i meant ye knob.

 

2 hours ago, Paul Busby said:

I don't think it's getting particularly heated. Lot of people with more experience that me on here and so far everyone has been super helpful.
Doddy with my Tekno and Brain holding my hand generally while I empty my bank account.

I also don't really think any of us disagree, we just have different perspective of when things cross the "crap" line. Or perhaps what the "crap" line actually is... Which is subjective anyway.
Out the box, the car doesn't come close to expectations, I think it's fairly safe say that's as objective as you can get, without being technically objective.

 

Love spending other peoples money.

 

Fair enough, i'll accept that "crap" is a subjective definition, and that "out of the box it's very disappointing" probably is the more broadly correct description. 

 

2 hours ago, Tug said:

 

Well, I felt it was getting argumentative, that's all. 

 

Out the box it's very slow and prone to bending. So I guess those two faults alone could earn it crap status? The X-Maxx is not fault free, but it's fast and quite durable. 

 

It wasn't though. Ever been to a pub?

 

I think that's where my "definition" comes from. Compared to the X-Maxx (which also isn't flawless, as you pointed out), it's just so much worse. In every respect. It's not cheaper considering that you gotta throw money at it to prevent it bending, it's considerably slower, it doesn't wheelie without modification (cardinal sin for a Kraton imho), it's nowhere near as tough. 

 

38 minutes ago, J.K said:

I guess its personal opinion on how we define "crap".

 

The Kraton 8s is a £900 car that WILL (probably) need a new chassis or 2 at £120 a pop after some fairly insignificant bashing.

The V1 Xmaxx was a £900 car that would thermal if you looked at it funny and the longest I got a diff to survive was one and a half sets of packs. Trouble is, everybody had the same issue and replacements were sold out worldwide.

 

The above makes both those rigs crap IMO.

 

The question on my mind is what kind of testing do these rigs go through before they're released to the consumer? Did Arrma genuinely not know about the bendy chassis? Did Traxxas genuinely not know that their flagship model would spontaneously combust on just 6s power?

 

Feels like they design 'em, build 'em and ship 'em, nothing more.

 

I generally agree here, but i would say that there's a significant difference between the two trucks. For the X-Maxx v1 (which was indeed crap), the drive train was significantly too weak. They fixed that with the V2 and for previous owners, with the 8s upgrade kit. Fixed it, but doesn't change the fact that indeed was crap. But here's the thing. Traxxas didn't have anything to look at prior. Not in size, nor in design. Arrma does. Arrma knows that 6061 alu doesn't cut it, it hasn't in years and if you increase the load on the metal, it obviously won't get better. It's a metal plate where stuff is bolted to, it's an incredibly simple design compared to the rather complex chassis of the X-Maxx. 

 

Were things obvious in testing? Well.. They should've been, in both cases. And i have no doubt that both companies knew this was gonna happen. With Traxxas, i mean.. It's Traxxas. With Arrma on the other hand, i always felt i can hold them to a higher standard than "being a patent troll and generally the Apple of RCs". I actually think that's part of the reason why i'm so disappointed in this - i was looking at getting a 1/5th at the time, and was (at least in secret) quite excited until i saw it.

 

29 minutes ago, Paul Busby said:

Looking at some of the mods to the motor systems in the Facebook groups is proving entertaining at least.

 

getting pinions that fit is clearly a challenge.

 

we all know what Arrma should fix in v2... what do you think they will fix?

 

Not the chassis, that's for sure. They haven't done it in four iterations of the Kraton 6s, i'm  not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. I'll be happily surprised if they do, but i don't think they will.

 

They probably gear it up from factory, maybe throw the DBXL-E powersystem in it (780kv motor, 8mm shaft mod 1.5), and redesign their braces (or add more). 

 

Christ, what a patchwork posting lol.

Edited February 2, 2020 by m4inbrain

But doesn't the 6S only bend if you're truly sending it? Tough enough for most bashers? Keep in mind I've not owned one. 

 

Whereas the K8 just bends being lifted from its box?

 

The bending is generally only at the ends, beneath the front and rear diff housings? Perhaps a pair of 7075 (or even steel) plates similar to those found under a 5ive would suffice? Although that's not going to help the T2T brace as the centre of the chassis flexes, which will be even more pronounced if the ends are stiffened!

 

Only true solution is a far superior chassis, or start from scratch with a tub design. Hate to say it, but Traxxas did get that right, on both Maxx trucks. 

It does take some force to bend the Kraton 6s, yeah - but it's not rare that it happens, so i'm still of the opinion that the approach of "well the 6s bends, so the 8s with the same material won't" is stupid (by Arrma). 

 

The Kraton 8s bends easier from what i've seen (mind, i don't have one of those) - but again, that's exactly what i'd expect. Same material, same shape, slightly thicker but more than twice the weight. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that it's not gonna work like this. And if you look at Aussie RCs video, at 1:38, the truck bends pretty much through the middle (it's the 6s that's likely to bend underneath the diffs/"at the thin parts"). Bending through the middle tells me that the entire chassis is as stiff as a cooked noodle - the Kraton 6s bends through its "weak points" on the chassis (as mentioned, the narrow part under the diffs), the 8s bends over the entire plate. 

 

It doesn't even need to be 7075/steel plates - the 5t chassis is (much like the Kraton 6s, 8s and the DBXL-E) made from 6061 t6. I don't know how the 5t is designed, but if it's anything like the DBXL-E 2.0, it's a second structural 6061 t6 plate, with holes cut in. 

 

 

You can see it there next to the antenna/under the servo cable.

 

Mind: the DBXL-E still can bend, from what i've seen (so does the 5t) - but it's pretty rare. It's metal in the end, metal yields eventually. But that would've helped vastly already, and i'm pretty certain would get the truck stiff enough to not have it bend if bashed like Vas did. He didn't thrash the truck at all, to have it bend that severely with that kind of driving, i don't know man. It's a little bit of a joke, imho. 

 

Now, one thing i can't tell you, is if this stiffening plate on the DBXL-E is machined/CNC. The chassis itself is stamped i think, not sure if you can stamp a plate like the stiffening plate - my point is, it probably would've added £20 (if stamped) to £50 (if CNC) to the price. Which.. I guess, any Kraton 8s owner would've gladly paid to get a truck that's stiffer than a slice of boiled mozzarella. 

I have the X2 from KM, it came with the plates underneath and ally chassis braces, all fitted stock. Now while I don't send it like Rich, RCDude or Talbot, I do ramp it, never bent it. First outing saw a nose-first crash straight into a berm, enough to pull the cells from their straps, but no bending. Yet RCMaxx had a front flip with his genuine 5ive that badly bent the front of his chassis, that was on flat, but rough terrain, not even an actual jump! Go figure. 

 

Just finished watching the latest vid from CCXRC, his seems to be holding up despite multiple jumps, but he does tend to land flat, which must be helping. 

The feeling you get from all of this is that the big guys still get a free ride, You get some calling it out for what it is, Some will try and defend it, Some will outright defend it, But if this was something from one of the cheaper brands or Chinese brands, It would be outright slaughtered across the board.

 I can't count how many times it was said on this very forum that such and such cost so much because of R&D, I think that argument, Or justification for the higher prices of some brands has gone right out the window, It has become apparent over the last few years that price is in no way any indication of quality.

 Thing is, It's our own fault, How many times has a car been recommended around here with the caveat that you have to upgrade this, This, And this, Happens all the time, It wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else, But here it's the norm, So they now know they can get away with shipping out substandard products, Are diffs are crap, But we have these hardened ones, Our shocks pop, We have these nice alloy caps, Our chassis bends, Just so happens.

  People used to recommend castle stuff all the time when they used to smoke on a regular basis, Why, Because they had good support and after sales, But downgraded Hobbywing because they allegedly didn't, The fact they never went puff meant nothing.

And I'm not taking a blind bit of notice of someone flashing a bent chassis on YouTube who happens to be flogging or part of upgraded chassis outfit.

 

The only way this will stop is if products are called out for what they are, Bending chassis makes it not fit for purpose, Stripped gearbox in 5 minutes(ECX Ruckus)makes it not fit for purpose, Not ' yer, But it's version 1, I know we'er Traxxas, But give little mate, I know we've made a few diffs in our time, But this is version 1, So it's ok for us to palm chocolate gears of to ya, Cos it's version 1'.

To be fair, that happens everywhere, really. Not necessarily the upgrade part (there's not that many hobbies where "upgrading" parts of the actual item is a thing), but the general excuses. Best example, Apple. I apologise for the meme, but this here is what i mean. 

 

Many content producers (not youtubers, but film studios) will tell you that the iMac Pro is the second coming of jesus for the industry. Best thing ever for content producing, and everyone serious should get one. Neglecting the fact that a proper workstation iMac Pro goes for around £15k to £35k. Then you "need" their monitor too, but fret not, it's a bargain at £6k. One more thing: you of course also need the monitor stand, which goes for a whopping £1000. And if that's not taking the mickey for you (and here's the meme) - that's how great a design you get for your money.

 

 

Yet people will defend Apple to the death, even though they're literally the most evil consumer product company out there, to the point where even Traxxas would be ashamed. 

 

I recall that back when i was into inline skating (yeah, yeah.. give me a break, it's like 25 years ago), my "K2 fatties" (sad that i still recall that name lol), or rather pretty much any "street skate" needed new rollers/bearings. "Oh you need ABEC 3 or they won't be nice" - "the middle rollers have to be smaller/harder for grinding and stuff" - etc. I think this "upgrade this, excuse that" is part of every hobby to some extend.