Insurance

[twb1975]

Hi all and merry Christmas.

Does any one have public liability insurance for there rc buggys?

If so where can i get some from. Ive see brca but cant find any info on there insurance.

Thanks

[Madmini]

Brca give you insurance mate. All detailed in the handbook

[twb1975]

21 minutes ago, Madmini said:

Brca give you insurance mate. All detailed in the handbook

Thanks for that but google there handbook but cant find anything. 

[RCbutcher]

Having it is just being polite for bashing, I don't think you need it. Unless racing then mayb.  

[Alex97]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj61uDZ4ffJAhUGOhQKHQybDwoQFgggMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brca.org%2F14-brca-handbook-2015&usg=AFQjCNFt84QnlIVEzAbFNzV_YTnXpTsv9g&sig2=Je4uUSnHKcb-gCArBVEXYA

[twb1975]

Thanks RCbutcher it is just for bashing

alex97 thank you for the link,  just what i wanted. 

I think i will join for that just in case moments..  

[Fontie]

Always good to have IMHO

[ThomasRC]

17 hours ago, Fontie said:

Always good to have IMHO

Do you know if it covers accidents that happen in public places such as a park?

[rushboy2004]

25 minutes ago, ThomasRC said:

Do you know if it covers accidents that happen in public places such as a park?

 

Cover says Anywhere at Anytime in the UK  - but later says Never use it somewhere the law (or local bylaws) don’t allow - eg most parks have rules against (do where I live). so like most insurance there's a list of t&c's that makes it almost impossible to claim or have reason they wont pay out.

 

copy from handbook

 

The Cover is:-

Public Liability Insurance of £10,000,000.

To include:-

Cover for use:- Anywhere at Anytime in the UK.

Cover as an organiser as well as a competitor.

Cover for organisers no matter where or when the event is held in the UK.

The Cover Isn’t:-

Personal Accident. If you hurt yourself, either by running yourself over (don’t laugh it has happened.) or by stepping out in front of a car, without looking, whilst marshalling (see note below on this) then you’re on your own as far as our cover is concerned.

If you’re concerned about this / don’t get paid sick / generally clumsy etc –then get yourself Personal Accident cover, it’s not hugely expensive (a few multiples of your membership fee!) and it’s normal intention is to replace your normal level of income if you hurt yourself.

24

Always:-

Use your car in a responsible manner. Never use it somewhere the law (or local bylaws) don’t allow –the street being the normal one seen –if in doubt as to the suitability of a site, go with your doubts and go somewhere else.

How it affects who:-

The Fun User

You may be thinking ‘I don’t race therefore I have no problem’, please think again. Tracks have to have a barrier / fence so the cars are restrained from getting to the public and

visa versa, driving one in the park has no safety features. There is nothing to stop the car if you get interference and there is nothing to stop the people who haven’t seen or heard what

you are doing. This is probably why there are more accidents involving relatively slow, but quiet, electric cars then the fast, but noisy, i.c. cars. In this kind of situation it is always the

responsibility of the user, you are directly responsible for your, and your car’s actions.

 

 

[ThomasRC]

54 minutes ago, rushboy2004 said:

 

Cover says Anywhere at Anytime in the UK  - but later says Never use it somewhere the law (or local bylaws) don’t allow - eg most parks have rules against (do where I live). so like most insurance there's a list of t&c's that makes it almost impossible to claim or have reason they wont pay out.

 

copy from handbook

 

The Cover is:-

Public Liability Insurance of £10,000,000.

To include:-

Cover for use:- Anywhere at Anytime in the UK.

Cover as an organiser as well as a competitor.

Cover for organisers no matter where or when the event is held in the UK.

The Cover Isn’t:-

Personal Accident. If you hurt yourself, either by running yourself over (don’t laugh it has happened.) or by stepping out in front of a car, without looking, whilst marshalling (see note below on this) then you’re on your own as far as our cover is concerned.

If you’re concerned about this / don’t get paid sick / generally clumsy etc –then get yourself Personal Accident cover, it’s not hugely expensive (a few multiples of your membership fee!) and it’s normal intention is to replace your normal level of income if you hurt yourself.

24

Always:-

Use your car in a responsible manner. Never use it somewhere the law (or local bylaws) don’t allow –the street being the normal one seen –if in doubt as to the suitability of a site, go with your doubts and go somewhere else.

How it affects who:-

The Fun User

You may be thinking ‘I don’t race therefore I have no problem’, please think again. Tracks have to have a barrier / fence so the cars are restrained from getting to the public and

visa versa, driving one in the park has no safety features. There is nothing to stop the car if you get interference and there is nothing to stop the people who haven’t seen or heard what

you are doing. This is probably why there are more accidents involving relatively slow, but quiet, electric cars then the fast, but noisy, i.c. cars. In this kind of situation it is always the

responsibility of the user, you are directly responsible for your, and your car’s actions.

 

 

I think it might be worth me getting, But yea some of the parks have signs saying no motorised vehicles etc. But some with no signs or warnings? Obviously i would use my electric stuff safetly and away from the public as much as possible

[Ian w]

I have resevations about this insurance, I spoke to the person at BRCA that deals with the insurance and when pressed on the "anytime anywhere" statement he stated that this anytime anywhere only stands if you have the ground owners permission to run there.

I recently emailed the chaiman to confirm this and received no reply.

[ThomasRC]

6 minutes ago, Ian w said:

I have resevations about this insurance, I spoke to the person at BRCA that deals with the insurance and when pressed on the "anytime anywhere" statement he stated that this anytime anywhere only stands if you have the ground owners permission to run there.

I recently emailed the chaiman to confirm this and received no reply.

That's fair enough. So the way around it would be to contact the council or whoever owns the park/field and ask them to see if you can run it? If yes then technically your good to go?

[Ian w]

I am sure that you can ask but actually getting permission probably will not happen as they would have to alow every one to do it. but it will not do any harm to ask.

[Noj]

Land owners permission is correct, unlikley you will get this in writing from a local council, so basically, bashing in the park is at your own risk in terms of public liability.

[ThomasRC]

Ok thanks for the info

[Si Coe]

Its generally understood that on public land unless it is specifically stated that you can't use RC's you can. That goes for other activities too. Whilst I've never heard of this being used in connection with BRCA insurance and RC's, I've heard this line played out with other sports and its worked.

In any case you won't get anybody else to agree to better terms - no company is going to insure you for damages you cause whilst acting illegally!

[Tamiyacowboy]

 

i was asked to stop flying my old powerkite on a park area, even though i had a 5 million PL insurance , and joined to the buggyclub as a member.

you can have full cover like i did and still be declined , was no skin of my nose so i just left the area and never went back.
we usually bash out of the way from others, if not your always asked those annoying questions.

does it: wheelie mister - does it go fast mister- does it cost lots mister- can i have a go mister-when you comming here again mister- whats your name mister- where you live mister- can i have a go please mister - please mister i wont break it .......... and on and on and on. 

 

thing is what if that person then gets hit with your machine thats where the gray line starts, if your in a sanctioned race and your buggy leaves the track and injures someone in the grandstands ie the public, your insurance will cover you upto the tune of X amount in millions , this X amount changes between things for my kites it was 5 million quid damages.
companys are not willing to pay out so they put those stealth clauses in, like the anywhere anytime (aka if its a sanctioned race not bashing).

why not bashing, well its more harder to cover for a start. bashers tend to free roam so they are NOT pinned to a sanctioned track thats covered by rules and regs set out by the brca and the insurers , its private or council owned land and falls into the bylaws area. bylaws govern our green spaces ( its these places we bashers use, your local woodland or country park, or local play fields even farmers field) 9-10 times they are covered with bylaws , motorized machines also could cover RC's so the bylaws catches us to as well as offroaders motobikes and horses and likes. 


Insurance is a nice thing to have BUT do not expect it to cover you all the time or be your golden ticket to playtime fun.

Signage is usually place at main entry points so use these when going to park and likes, check for bylaw signs etc etc.
if there aint none take a photo ( it can be used as evidence to failing to signage the laws they use), if challenged you can produce photo and mention no signage
but be polite and ask for the bylaws so you know next time  . 

 

if you are allowed to use land DO NOT. 

dig anywhere, it is not your land to dig on, so no ramp building - track carving - berm laying - kicker dugouts.
Same layout track, try to not do this use differnet areas so they wear and grow back over in time, you want to keep it looking like you found it. not with a huge figure 8 dirt track dug into the soil from the rc's.
Gates, close them if you see one open close it, 
Be polite but also be aware, if your on farmland watch out for cattle and livestock, an angry heffer will take you down in no time.
ask the ower where they would like you to go do your hobby bashing, dont just roam free anywhere

Edited December 27, 2015 by Tamiyacowboy

[The Hound]

I'm pretty sure this was discussed in a thread a while back. I think BRCA assume every RC in public use is at a track. Well that's how it seemed to be thought of last time this was aired.

 

Might be worth a google to see if there are any recorded claims that involve bashers

[Si Coe]

I've spoken with Jim Spencer (BRCA Treasurer) in the past and he assured me that the insurance does not assume you are at a track at all. In fact, the one place it doesn't actually cover you is on the track itself*. It does assume you are driving in a legal and responsible manner with the agreement of the land owner or at least were until you lost control of the vehicle (runaways are a major cause of claims). Contesting paying out would therefore hinge on the 'are you allowed to run there' and 'were you driving responsibly' areas.

To give a good example my club is in a public park, and we therefore do have permission to run there. Our permission extends beyond the track itself and technically covers the whole park, but I'm fairly sure the insurers wouldn't want to pay out if I hurt someone driving across one of the footie pitches mid-game. 

The problem here is that in the event of an accident that injures a member of the public the chances are no matter what you or they were doing before it happened they will claim you were driving like a maniac and were bound to hit someone. Without witnesses it would be hard to prove otherwise.

* BRCA insurance specifically does not cover marshals out on the race track retrieving cars. They are covered at their marshal points, and the public standing around the track are covered, but the moment a marshal steps out on to the track proper they aren't covered as they aren't acting 'safely'.

 

[Tamiyacowboy]

 

yep and when your BASHING your not exactly  driving responsibly lol, you tend to be pushing the machine to the limits of your ability and the machines.
and we all knows what happens, the big bad tree- kerb jumps out and faceplants you into a thousand years of waiting for that part from china to come lol.

insurance is a gray area, if you drive like a nutter its possible your going to hurt yourself or someone else, but in this day and age you could be well within responsible driving and some not so good folk make a claim and your left without a leg to stand on. 

if your going to go to clubs and likes its very very well worth it , if your bashing its a minefield not becasue of the insurance itself but the way people claim (on an easy money ride).

 

marshals get the unfair deal. they go out to reset your machine, yet are not covered, in a way if a 1:1 race car crashes its out, there aint no reset chap. all race marshals have to be behind barriers untill race boss releases them etc etc. can you see that happening in rc racing, race is stopped cars all reset and started again, make for some boring heats to. but i do think they should be covered, if they step out into a machine theres the risk but if they are still and a car hits them there should be some allowance, he was resetting a car ( however rule change could be made to resetting only on the tracks skirt sides, no center placing ) he would place it close to the side wall so he himself was in a safe'ish area.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tamiyacowboy

[sputnik]

Its very simple Gents - read the exclusions.  35 yr insurance veteran here ... skip the crap at the beginning and move onto the exclusions.  The front of the policy gives coverage - very broadly - then they exclude away what they wish not to cover.  Also important to read the definitions after the exclusions or during for clarifications.

Its not what they feel, or imply or intend to cover or exclude or what some guy on the phone from the BRCA, the USAA the NAACP or even the US of A - its whats WRITTEN in their contract - to the letter.  If they dont have a written exclusion for "land owners permission" or a defined area - they will be obligated to cover it.