Mamba Monster braking in reverse?

[Noj]

Filming the Pro Buggy today

[Tug]

Right, quick test indoors (which I was going to film) and as I thought, there's definitely reverse braking or at the very least a reduction in forwards power when going straight from reverse to forwards. Basically, when reversing and then applying a small amount of forward throttle, the ESC definitely makes an effort to stop reverse movement before applying forward power. I'd definitely refer to this as "reverse braking", I will shoot a proper vid in the next day or so. It's always been, and still is, a far cry from the "reverse, then straight on to forwards power" that you get with a Hobbywing.

Vid when time and dry daylight allow.

That is all.

[jpbp200]

Traxxas say the only ones they do with "reverse braking" are the VXL 3s and the VXL 3m (Initially the guy who replied to my email said none at all do it but when I told him I had a Slash with a VXL 3S that definitely does it he checked again and reported the two listed). It would seem that it is not a very common feature. I like it however and I think it would be very useful on a beginners car, particularly a young person's and you would think it would be included in the spec if it does reverse brake as it is obviously quite a unique feature that many people like.

 

I reckon from what you describe Tug that yours would be considered by Castle as NOT having that feature even though as you say it does make an effort to slow down.

 

My Slash most definitely does exactly the same in reverse as it does going forwards.

[Tug]

What I'll do is ramp up my reverse speed from 50 to 100% and then do some rigorous testing.

[jpbp200]

My Slash is packed up for sale but if I get a chance I'll unpack it and video it so that I have a demonstration available should the need arise! It's not sealed up yet so I just have to take it out of the box and put some batteries in.

[Tug]

Reverse braking on a Castle Mamba Monster Max 2.:

[Tug]

Could that just be cogging? It's a low kv motor, it does cog a fair bit. I still feel that's reverse braking, I never once went to neutral, it was just reverse to forwards, the ESC did the rest. It was only a small amount of forwards, perhaps 10% throttle, but that's good enough for me.

Now, there's a setting called "Initial start power", it could be this that changes everything. I've left this setting on low to protect the ESC from ripple, but this could be the cause of the excessive cogging?

I'll do more testing, but I still think that looks like reverse braking.

[Tug]

I upped the "Initial start power" to high, this reduced the cogging, but the reverse brakes stayed. Are they really reverse brakes? They seem like it to me, it's even more pronounced on the XL2, but that's not fitted to any of my cars at the moment, so can't vid it.

[jpbp200]

That looks like a sort of reverse braking to me. However my Slash will just stop and not start going forwards until I release the throttle to neutral and then pull it again. Just as it does when going forwards. I am assuming the MMM does the braking when going forwards whereby you have to release the throttle to neutral before going either forwards or backwards? I'm going to unpack the Slash later and get a video done. I'll try and get the controller in the shot too.

[Tug]

No, the 3M (Mamba Monster Max) doesn't require neutral before engaging forward drive. That's the beauty of it.

[NuttyProfessor]

Initial start power is how much of the esc's power is laid down when you mash the throttle. I've always left mine on lowest to save the driveline a bit, like having a slower responding throttle, throttle curve basically.

[Noj]

Is this still going on??? There's been shorter conflicts!!

Bottom line, the ESC works as it does, so, live with it, or replace it

[Tug]

Initial start power is how much of the esc's power is laid down when you mash the throttle. I've always left mine on lowest to save the driveline a bit, like having a slower responding throttle, throttle curve basically.

I know that, but it also seems to increase cogging, I've upped it and it seems fine.

[turok007]

if i remember correct from the 2 i have they have a small delay before going forwards after being in reverse.

[NuttyProfessor]

Because the motor needs more of a kick to get it moving, this is why finding the sweet spot of a motor is down to esc settings as well as gearing.

[suicideneil]

There is no such thing as brakes when going from reverse to forwards, not on any esc I've ever seen or heard of. It's all in your heads....

All you are seeing in the video is the truck rolling to a near stop in reverse at low speed, then instantly moving forwards, also at a fairly low speed; due to the low speeds and the natural magnetically induced braking of BL motors it appears that the motor is 'applying brakes in reverse', but it really isn't- it's just slowing down and taking off more gently.

Try doing the same test with reverse speed set to 50% , and at a higher speed from reverse to forwards without being so gentle on the throttle; you will quickly see there are no brakes when going from reverse to forwards- the truck will either spin its wheels or do a wheelie, or maybe cog violently.

Edited March 29, 2015 by suicideneil

[Tug]

There is no such thing as brakes when going from reverse to forwards, not on any esc I've ever seen or heard of. It's all in your heads....

All you are seeing in the video is the truck rolling to a near stop in reverse at low speed, then instantly moving forwards, also at a fairly low speed; due to the low speeds and the natural magnetically induced braking of BL motors it appears that the motor is 'applying brakes in reverse', but it really isn't- it's just slowing down and taking off more gently.

Try doing the same test with reverse speed set to 50% , and at a higher speed from reverse to forwards without being so gentle on the throttle; you will quickly see there are no brakes when going from reverse to forwards- the truck will either spin its wheels or do a wheelie, or maybe cog violently.

My MGM is 100% reverse braked, the Castle kit I'm not convinced on all of them, except the XL2 which most certainly does brake to a halt before moving forward. Can't vid that as it's currently sat in the parts bin.

[jpbp200]

There is no such thing as brakes when going from reverse to forwards, not on any esc I've ever seen or heard of. It's all in your heads....

Right, here is an example of what I meant by reverse braking in the OP. This is my Traxxas Slash doing this. My Traxxas Revo does not have this feature and therefore I asked if it should! Note that when the throttle is pulled while reversing the car brakes to a stop. It does this at any speed but I was one handed while holding the camera in limited space!!!

Edited March 29, 2015 by jpbp200

[suicideneil]

Nope, it's all witchcraft, none of this is real.

I guess things have changed a bit in the last few years- probably in an effort to reduce the chances of people stripping gears or popping speedos trying to pull wheelies...

[Tamiyacowboy]

its like a kind of drag brake effect. 

 

remember  your in REVERSE ( that is also the brake signal ) 

 

your moving backwards, you release throttle motor drags you to a stop ( the magnets inside rotating slow the truck)

your moving backwards in reverse, you hammer throttle to full gas.......... esc looks twice once for neutral , twice for register throttle.

theres a slight pause between the two. ( your truck kinda jumps from the start twice.) called cogging .

 

theres Very few esc's that govern the jump from a reverse pulse signal to a full beans open throttle signal. take a reversing j turn, you DO NOT want braking effect

you want reverse to max power instant'ish so you can catch the flick and power the end out, braking would slow down and change the weight balance and effect the turn itself. you wouldnt make it.

 

esc are simple . on - off in very fast pulses , your brushless motor its a fast pulse send down each wire in a certain sequence to make it spin.

at first they mimic the old MSC mechanicals we all seen or maybe owned. three steps in forward and one step in reverse. they just gave us pulses

so we were able to have more linier throttle 0-3 became 0-250 , these days escs can run in to and beyond 2000 steps. 

 

but they all have that one thing a none brake effect from reverse to forwards, its never really been called for.

a racer will nodoubt be running esc's WITHOUT reverse , its will have a drag brake setting , when braking the esc sends slow pulses to retard the shafts rotation acting as a dragging brake.

 

 

also you must remember the esc's of these days have a onboard chip, it has a certain size of memory, ie a kilobyte or a couple.

so that means the code must be small and compact, not full of unwanted or never to be used settings. and these chips are not super fast

a couple hz in speed. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Tamiyacowboy

[jpbp200]

its like a kind of drag brake effect. 

 

remember  your in REVERSE ( that is also the brake signal ) 

 

your moving backwards, you release throttle motor drags you to a stop ( the magnets inside rotating slow the truck)

your moving backwards in reverse, you hammer throttle to full gas.......... esc looks twice once for neutral , twice for register throttle.

theres a slight pause between the two. ( your truck kinda jumps from the start twice.) called cogging .

 

theres Very few esc's that govern the jump from a reverse pulse signal to a full beans open throttle signal. take a reversing j turn, you DO NOT want braking effect

you want reverse to max power instant'ish so you can catch the flick and power the end out, braking would slow down and change the weight balance and effect the turn itself. you wouldnt make it.

 

esc are simple . on - off in very fast pulses , your brushless motor its a fast pulse send down each wire in a certain sequence to make it spin.

at first they mimic the old MSC mechanicals we all seen or maybe owned. three steps in forward and one step in reverse. they just gave us pulses

so we were able to have more linier throttle 0-3 became 0-250 , these days escs can run in to and beyond 2000 steps. 

 

but they all have that one thing a none brake effect from reverse to forwards, its never really been called for.

a racer will nodoubt be running esc's WITHOUT reverse , its will have a drag brake setting , when braking the esc sends slow pulses to retard the shafts rotation acting as a dragging brake.

 

 

also you must remember the esc's of these days have a onboard chip, it has a certain size of memory, ie a kilobyte or a couple.

so that means the code must be small and compact, not full of unwanted or never to be used settings. and these chips are not super fast

a couple hz in speed.

Yep that all makes a lot of sense. I guess the best thing would be to allow it to be an option. I don't really need it but I thought it was standard on all ESCs when I posted originally (I now know better. Thanks all!). As you say doing what I call a "Jimmy Rockford" and I guess you call a "J Turn" (if you are young enough to remember "The Rockford Files" it's the way he used to turn his car round when he was facing the wrong way!! )then you want full beans to get you out of the spin.

Personal preference as always.

Cheers for all the useful input though peeps.