ta05 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well, to a certain degree I would prefer under steer - as it will slow me down for the corners and transform me into a smoother driver. it's hard to describe but I think I will let the regular fast guys have a play with the setup and see if they can transform it for me. I will have some new springs to try in practice too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantra Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) If you are still finding the car too twitchy and responsive I'd advise the following... In general you need to make the front of the car softer, roll a little more, roll more progressively or a combination of all three. Front shock oil is probably the answer and it may be worth experimenting with rear shock oil too. Going to a thicker oil will slow down the transition from side to side. More front droop could also be very useful. If you are running small droop and the chassis hits the droop screw during side roll the roll centre goes down quickly at this point. This can give the feeling that the car is throwing it's weight from side to side. I'd probably start here. Unwinding the droop screw will also allow the car to roll more and might not be good for on power steering so experiment. Lay down the front shocks and/or use a softer spring. Both will soften the front end and make the transitions smoother, laying the shocks down will also make it more progressive. A longer front camber link or more spacers under the camber link (if it can't go longer) will lower the roll centre and make the car roll more. I use lower roll centres when the grip is high to reduce a little traction and make the car more gentle to drive. Longer link is my preference in this situation since it will also reduce camber gain more which will make the car less aggressive. Ackerman may or may not be the answer. For most tyres there is a sweet spot with ackerman that gives optimum slip angles as the wheel turns. If the set up you have is for rubber then it is definitely worth experimenting here as you are on foam tyres. If possible change it at the hubs to start with as this is a bigger change and then fine tune it with the spacers on the steering rack. Edited March 18, 2014 by Quantra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) You Sir, are a good man Quantra! Exactly the description I needed to make some changes! Top banana! :banana: Here is my current setup - with bold indicating my imminent changes. I will try adding one at a time in practise and try to find a sweet spot. I am currently using kit droop settings front and rear, and kit camber link settings which sounds like something I should adjust if the slightly softer spring change does not help. - 2) I will try increasing front droop and a longer front camber link. I have been using Spec R 3.0 and 2.6 shorty springs as a loan - 1) but have got some genuine Xray 2.9 and 2.3 springs arriving today to try as my first change to make the car a little softer in general. However, I will want to monitor for grip roll as going softer on anything on a high traction track Kit front roll bar, no rear roll bar. I do not plan on changing anything here, for now. Shock oils - Currently 45wt Front and rear. 3) I will try 35 front and rear some time if the spring change, droop change and camber link changes do not help Ackerman - Currently as per kit settings - 4) I will make this my last change if everything else fails. However, the biggest setup challenge for me, is keeping enough corner speed to keep up with the fast guys! Edited March 19, 2014 by ta05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) One other question for the Xray guys. Today in the post from Demon I got the Part 306516-0 Xray T4 Alu top deck mount - Orange (of course lol) but it only came with one screw? Is this correct, or should it have two screws - one screw for each end of it????? I know xray are optimized but how the hell do you put one screw in two holes? (Don't even try answering that with innuendo LOL) Edited March 19, 2014 by ta05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 For anyone wondering the spec of my car here it is so far: Xray T4 2013 Genuine Xray Carbon fibre bumper brace Genuine Xray Carbon fibre motor guard Genuine Xray Front differential Genuine Xray 2.9 front and 2.3 rear Springs Genuine Xray stock front roll bar, no rear bar. RW 48X spur gear/pinion selection To fit soon: Genuine Xray Alu top deck mount - Orange Zepplin motor mount and 40mm fan (black, not orange... boooo ) lol Genuine Xray transmitter lanyard Genuine Xray hardened foam bumper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 What I have noticed today is that if you're planning on buying SpecR springs for your T4 they will fit, but are a tiny bit longer and narrower than genuine XRAY springs. This means that you will not be able to lower the car as much if using foam tyres, (as and when they wear out). I also noticed the SpecR springs are hard to pull off the shock bodies, while as the XRAY springs do not cling to the shock body at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Qualified and finished 3rd in the A last night. Car felt OK, but the muppet racing it deserved to give the car a better result! I got lapped 10 times by the winner. 7 by 2nd. Quali went quite well and improved every round but I was still off the pace. It was pushing a bit but silky smooth to drive on the limit otherwise. I got the new springs on, hard bumper, fan and got the ride height sorted. Next time to do some tuning. Droop, front camber links, all ONE at a time QUANTRA - Thank you for the advice, I am generally making small changes here and there from your sugestions to help the car along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collective itch Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Finsihed 3rd also in all heats and finals, but was getting progressively quicker each race. Just gonna keep trying to improves times, before it make any more changes I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantra Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Sounds like you are having fun =] I went racing last night and scored the 2nd fastest lap of the day, just 0.02s off the fastest. Shame the final sucked though as my reward for getting the jump off the line and placing my car along side 3rd place was for 3rd place to drive like I wasn't there and smash my car into the barriers... And they are meant to be the better driver xD Oh well, learning more and more how the top boys drive, I don't like it but I'll have to get used to it =] Other than that a really good race, first time I have been back on pace with the top boys since my break, still more tweaking to do with the awesomatix though, it can go even faster =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) 15th out of 23 in the championship. I only went to 5 out of 22 meetings, best 15 to count. Best race result was Friday, (3rd in the A), but not many people raced Friday as it was the last round of the championship. I did however, set an improvement to my track 2 time. From 22 laps with my trf415msxx to... 0.5seconds off of doing 27 laps with my T4 lol 0,7seconds off fastest and average lap, so I still need to work on my consistency/ setup. Same electrics, "only" a different car hehe. Quantra - I am kind of in the same situation, except I was the one to give the punishment. xray against xray down the straight, I kept going and the other (me 3rd, the other 4th) didn't! It was 70/30 blame (imo), a racing incident - although in hindsight was racing with a bit too much enthusiasm. It's not easy though - if you don't push hard enough you don't get the most out of the car. Although the other car retired due to the battery coming out/broken case it is a testament to XRAY cars - very strong despite both cars taking a nasty hit. I am not usually involved in controversy (anywhere I race) but Friday night was not going to pass for me without something occurring. I don't get any satisfaction from seeing any guys race being ended, unless their name is Sebastian Vettel lol. Joking aside, I had to put it down to experience. On a side note, I'm now 9th fastest out of the 36 recorded in FTD results for all 6 of our different track layouts. 3 laps exactly off the fastest Edited March 24, 2014 by ta05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Moving onto the positives. 1) my car isn't shredding spur gears. 2) motor mount/fan fitted 3) new springs appear to be working well 4) the new hard front bumper is holding up well 5) I am hopeful there is more to achieve from setup work. I need more practice to understand where/why my lap times cannot be consistent. Single fastest lap is fast - but I cannot keep it there lap after lap as it feels like hard work due to not putting the car on the track where I want it to be. This may be partially due to confidence in the car, or not making the car work for me as well as I want it to. Gearing is good, motor temperatures are good. But with the tips from Quanta - I am slowly wading into the holy grail of setup, hmm ok I am probably still on the first chapter of the book LOL Edited March 24, 2014 by ta05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 What is the effect of front diff oil being too thick or too thin? Does too thick generate understeer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantra Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I'm no expert on front diffs as I use a spool all the time but in general the thicker the diff oil the more that end of the car will slide in corners and the faster it will accelerate the car in a straight line out of corners. So I guess in general too thick would cause understeer but I'm also pretty sure there's going to be more to it than what I have posted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Useful info, ty I don't think I'm getting quite enough front end rotation so it looks like I need to strip down the front diff and and get some thinner oil for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hope your racing goes well tonight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Thanks fella! a quick question please (as I'm so rubbish with setup!!! flmao) If I add spacers to the underneath of the inner camber link, what effect does this have? I remember doing it to one of my old cars and it appeared to work better, but I forgot what it actually did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 sorry pass, I'm still learning set-up myself. I thought the xray manual was pretty good and explained what difference set-up changes make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantra Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 In general when you add spacers under the inner camber link you are lowering the roll centre by a small amount. You are also reducing camber gain by a small amount. The effect depends on the car and the rest of the setup. Normally you will be taking grip away from that end of the car as you will be letting it roll more and reducing the camber gain, however the opposite can also be true so you have to experiment with this one. If the grip is high and my car is sucking mid corner I will add 0.5mm spacers all round to free the car up without affecting the handling too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Quantra. what camber/toe do you tend to run? Thanks for the explanation on camber links, I will experiment with this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Very informative Quantra! Something to try, if I have time to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Just to confirm, when experimenting with the camber links, is it only the inner you add spacers to? Or the outside too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta05 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 I only experimented with inside ages ago, but outside can be changed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Cool, I'll experiment with both. So many adjustments can be made but it's finding what works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantra Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Camber/toe again depends on the car. Most like 1.5 and 2 camber front and rear but I run more like 1.5 front and rear. Toe is a good one for testing changes without making the car wild. I have 2 settings I like one is safe the other fast, so I use the safe ones when I'm testing things which might make the car hard to drive. Safe: 1 out and 3 in front and rear. Fast: 0.5 out and 2.5 in front and rear. In general the straighter your wheels the faster the car will go in a straight line, the more rotation you will have (from rear toe) and the more steering you will have mid corner (from front toe). The more toe you run the more stable the car becomes and it's easier to keep it in a straight line. You can change camber link spacers inner and outer, they basically have the opposite effect to each other. So removing spacers from outer is like adding them to inner and vice versa. However there is something called steering axis inclination which means I always use as many spacers on the outer and only adjust with the inner, it's a really tiny effect though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Great explanation, thanks Quantra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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