A litttle astro photography

[Tamiyacowboy]

whats with the cooling mate, how come the cameras need it?

all cameras produce noise, in the daytime you do not see it, but at night it makes your picture look all grainy.

the sensor has a tendancy to produce noise via heat , and the microchips to. most expensive astro CCD's will have cooling and usualy via TEC units.

i am just doing it the cheap mans way, build my own and not pay as much. ( £21 webcam and free TEC ), a cooled astrocam can cost from £250 to a couple grand and more)

[Hawkpalmer]

Cooling for the long exposures = heat hence the cooling???

Thanks for the info on uars tamiya, will be looking upwards a little later on ;-)

[Tamiyacowboy]

Cooling for the long exposures = heat hence the cooling???

Thanks for the info on uars tamiya, will be looking upwards a little later on ;-)

the sensors light receptors are like a bucket, they slowly fill with light then are sent to a amp, they cause heat. the microchip also produces heat. noise is produced in digital cameras from the batterys etc etc but mostly from the sensor and its amps. each tiny pixel has a amp.

keeping these cool reduces the noise. nearly all expensive astrocams are cooled for this reason. the cooler the camera the less noise it produces.

telescopes are cooled to, some have fans behind the mirror, most are left outside to cool down for a hour or two before use. i leave mine for around a good hour to get cool.

at the mo i will not be adding the cooling mod. just the basic webcam tear out and remount into a clean small unit with a 35mm film can as a telescope adaptor. maybe adding a couple of memory chip sized heatsinks on the chipset.

i have my eyes on another webcam to mess with but this one will have a bit of soldering to do and make it a true long exposure ( like bulb mode on a dslr )

[richhrly]

all cameras produce noise, in the daytime you do not see it, but at night it makes your picture look all grainy.

the

The higher the sensitivity, the higher the noise. Nothing to do with dark/light backgrounds, but at night the sens is higher - hence more noise. Cooling helps considerably in keeping it under control.

[Tamiyacowboy]

The higher the sensitivity, the higher the noise. Nothing to do with dark/light backgrounds, but at night the sens is higher - hence more noise. Cooling helps considerably in keeping it under control.

what rich said.

got a good picture has this webcam. one thing i have noticed is the brightness adjustment, this also controls the gain ( auto gain ) but i can drop brightness down to around 40 from 140 and still get a decent picture and a lot less noise. cannot wait to get it on the telescope at 300mm prime and that 76mm mirror, it has a 55 degree FOV so the moon should fill the frame i hope.

have extended the webcams reach by using an old usb extender cable ( still getting 30fps ) and now have around 9ft of reach. plenty to go from telescope to a laptop.will grab a shot from out the window tomorrow and show the quality it gives.

[dtokez]

thats interesting, cheers.

out of interest how are you going to use the peltier to cool the camera? how close would it need to be to the sensor?

any updates on the satellite yet?

[Tamiyacowboy]

thats interesting, cheers.

out of interest how are you going to use the peltier to cool the camera? how close would it need to be to the sensor?

any updates on the satellite yet?

nope just sitting at window keeping my eye out.

am thinking the TEC unit over, couple ideas i have, one uses heatsink double sided thermal tape. the other uses a alloy plate with a couple rasied areas for contact to the chips, these will have a little silver arctic paste on them to help the transfer from chip to alloy to cooling plate.

power i was thinking a small 6V motorbike battery or a larger 12v gel pack

the none cooled version will be passive cooling, and have small cut down pc memory heatsinks stuck to the chipset's via self adhesive thermal tape, and mounted inside a small project box so they protrude from it and allow heat transfer out of the unit into the air ( ideal for winter when it can be -0 ).

[Tamiyacowboy]

Last Uars update :

3 a.m. to 7 a.m. GMT

During that time period, the satellite will be passing over Canada, Africa and Australia, as well as vast areas of the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian oceans.

[Tamiyacowboy]

Here Is the Microsoft HD5000. the front face cover (silver rim ) needs to be pulled of with a sharpish pin/blade. it is held on with double back sticky tape.

here is the face covering removed. notice the two large screw holes at the bottom, remove these and keep to one side.

to the right in picture you can see the face cap and the mic + the plastic to project the blue LED. the face cap pulls off from the rear body. centre is the Cmos sensor covered by its baby lens

Upper left you can see a ground screw and cable, beside this is a blue surface mount led, we will need to run camera and use black paint to cover it, until no blue light is seen.

Bottom left is the usb-camera jack, we need to pop this off to get the board out, we also need to desolder and unscrew the top left ground screw and cable. this lets you remove the cable from the rear body and allows for a new fitting case.

Top centre, this tends to be a snapshot ( single frame) button. on this camera it is the MSN live button and opens the msn IM. no need to worry as this will be hidden way inside a new camera project box.

Bottom right, here you will find the onboard mic jack, and bellow a ground cable for the mic, we will remove the mic and its ground cable later on. the will be un-needed.

so next will be to remove the board clean up the unwanted plugs and hardware, and remove the Lens and its holder. to remove the Board we need to remove those two grounding cables and screws ( upper left / lower right ) at the same time pop out the Mic plug. you can instal back into new case if you wish to record audio with your AVI recording.

if your camera has no mic that is fine, you can also leave the fitted. i shall remove them on this camera. once you have your camera free place it into a plastic container and put the lid on. we need to keep this camera dust free, the sensor will be a pain in the rear to clean (trust me).

maplins is a good place to find project boxes, and a 35mm film can ( plastic container+lid) will act as your telescope attachment.

back in a couple days with part two : the final build and first light test.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy

[Tamiyacowboy]

here is a PNG converted to JPG from the webcam. even with very low exposure and brightness the camera is overexposed. should be better under low light conditions, but may struggle with the moon

[dtokez]

looks good mate! one thing though, why dont you just de-solder the smd led?

[Tamiyacowboy]

looks good mate! one thing though, why dont you just de-solder the smd led?

because they beggers to desolder, surface mounted stuff is usualy soldered via the hot air techniqe . using a gun/iron is going to need very steady work. better to just black it out with paint, just give it a good few coats every hour or so, then test in a dark room for any light leakage. better than chopping it out and finding the cam will not work as that connection was used via the MP controller.

need to find the driver running the cam, some settings are grayed out, but the Cmos data is saying these controls are enabled onboard. i wonder if microsoft changed a few ini. settings mainly gain = 0, and not gain = 1 ( ie gain 1 is gain enabled)

[dtokez]

I just use some braid to desolder smd components mate, or two soldering irons works - one on each end

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk

[Tamiyacowboy]

I just use some braid to desolder smd components mate, or two soldering irons works - one on each end

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk

aye gonna leave it fitted, not many have messed with these miscrosoft hd-5000, unlike older cams you could long exposure mod them, these new cameras are different, so it is a waiting game for someone with the knowledge to hack the camera and open up the extra features with long exposure included. gonna take solder and other parts to reverse fixed exposure.

looking for a nice sized box to fit the cam in and on the hunt for a 35mm film canister.

without the moon up in the sky i had an awesome view of the nights sky, could just make out the milky way. tonight i think i may try and capture some vid footage from the webcam held over a 25mm eyepiece. get the software and camera settings just right and ready.

a little note,

install your camera software, you may find HD cameras fail to record at 30fps , the makers software is causing this problem, so install makers software check for any camera firmware updates ( my hd5000 had a new firmware flash done ) , once all this gubbins is installed, go into windows/linux and uninstall the makers software.

load up sharpcap or other third party software and you will find you can shoot @30fps HD

you can use almost any webcam as an astronomy camera.

[dtokez]

sounds good mate, I cant wait to get a scope and get cracking

[Tamiyacowboy]

i got a cheap'ish one.

sky-watcher heritage 76

the black and the orange look well cool, i got the galileo graphics one.

got a 3" mirror and a 300mm focal. comes with stand spotterscope and 2x eyepiece.

a nice little starter scope. get some nice views of jupiter, the moon

thought i would add this.

the above is my cameras new box. i thought the name kind of fitted the project well. you can see it is an old wind guage. the left side in picture will become the cable holder and exit. the window will be where the sensor sits.

the back plate is alloy and sealed with a rubber ring. some thermal heat foam tape will hold the camera to this backplate and allow heat to transfer. i will remove some of the clear window to screw in a adaptor or glue a 35mm film canister central to the sensor.

the whole package will fit in palm of the hand, if i remove the wind vane holder it becomes around the size of a matchbox ( not inc cable)

Edited September 24, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy

[martleeds]

Cheers guys lol, have put some thought in to this hobby for a while, and after reading this thread yesterday, i ended up putting in a cheeky bid, and winning this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190577312482?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Was supposed to be looking for a short course , will have to have a look for a good 720p web cam, so expect a few daft questions over the next few days, will get some pics up once i have it

[Tamiyacowboy]

looking good martleeds, as for a short course, stand telescope on skateboard, add a couple servo's , the misses / girlfriend will not know any different, and hit at the cost V a shortcourse also throw in a box of milktray

4.5 inch main mirror / 1 inch second mirror

900mm focal length

from factory comes with a 20mm and 4mm eyepiece, with this is a 2x barlow

max mag with given eyepieces and barlow 600x

ideal maximum mag 225x

Sturdy EQ mount and counterbalance weight

just a little word , you DO NOT need to have a HD webcam, a normal webcam will work and give nice stacked pictures. an HD cam just adds a little more detail.

Normal webcams can be modded just as easy or become technical.

please do not think you need an expensive HD webcam ( they just a bit better )

also do not expect hubble type pictures and views. our eyes do not see infrared , hydrogen Alpha and the likes, the webcam will but over a long recording and software.

been snippets on interweb there may be another re-entry in october sometime, will keep an eye out and post details as i find them

Edited September 25, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy

[martleeds]

Cheers Tamiya, bear that in mind, as i already have a couple of normal webcams lying around, from the reviews i have read, the 675x mag is a little over kill on a scope this size, and wont yield usefull results, also for a begginner it can be a pita to set up up the mount, but from the pics i have seen, im guessing the hard work will be worth the payoff

[Tamiyacowboy]

aligning to polaris ( north star ) can be a pain for anyone even the pro's. will post a utube link vid on how to do this for you guys.

675 is super over kill, BUT and i say but you are still going to get some very sweet views with a 2x barlow and 20mm eyepiece, do not feel let down

we all expect them hubble type pictures, they come with time.

you have jupiter still in the sky rising from the east ( 11pm - dawn ). the moon is low so the stars will stand out more. do not forget the big dipper ( saucepan ) just above its handle is M101 spiral galaxy and the new supernova

[Tamiyacowboy]

i done a test stripdown of the webcam today.

removing the two grounding screws, the PCB comes out of the webcam housing fairly easy.

flipping the board over i was glad to see my work on cooling was half solved, the webcamera has a heatsink plate fitted.

The small alloy L shape plate is secured via thermal stick pads to the chipset, all i need to do is add a couple larger square sinks.

the blue LED is very bright and needs sorting out. i used some black acrylic paint, and applied it with a cocktail stick, have the cam plugged in and running, it helps with covering every part of the surface mount led, and any light leakage to the sensor when uncovered.

Microsoft HD-5000 PCCB size, 3.5cm x 2.0cm ( lens unit hight around 1cm )

[martleeds]

I picked up my celestron scope tonight, havent had chance to set it up tonight, but im hoping this mini heat wave we are due this week, will bring some clear skies, hoping to set it up tommorow night

Will keep watching your camera mods tamyia, will get some pics up of the scope, once i have it set up

[Tamiyacowboy]

second part this week. i have stripped down board to its bare minimum. no auto focus now that i have removed the whole lens and focus system. this is the frankenstien part i think. camera was working before i started, i am half way through the mod, will it live or will it have died on the table.

frankencamera will arise soon i hope. on another point, start looking for film canisters now, took me a few tries to find one as a freebie. and they fit perfect into a telescope focus ring and tube.

new cameras with auto focus feature once modded will NOT work, you need to set camera to infinity before unpluging from usb. soon as you undo those first two screws your warenty is void, you cannot send it back and will not get a replacement.

I am not at fault if you break your webcam/or fry yourself -glue fingers together - or any other problem. At your OWN risk so they say.

MartLeeds :

do not worry about polar aligning.

pop scope outside, leave on the eyepiece covering and the main tube cover. leave it for about 30mins if possible have a cuppa or something.

now point scope to a star ( bright one ), put in a 20mm eyepiece, and have a look, adjust focus to get it just right.

now you can swap to a lower eyepiece number say a 10mm or 4mm .

chose a new star and skip over to this one and have a look. then start moving the scope mount slowly as you view. we call this STAR HOPPING.

bright stars to find :

south : up high is the bright star Vega

south west/west : you will find bootes

just past north: you can find polaris ( the north star / polar star) this is the one we align scope to ie: polar alignment. ( this is not magnetic north and is about 13 degree, north is 0 degree)

east we will see Jupiter low in the sky and as time goes on, it rises from east to south west'ish. and is brighter than nearly all stars. it is possible to see the moons of jupiter to

the big dipper above the handles last two stars is the spiral galaxy M101 and the new supernova.

Vega in LYRA and its bottom stars in its box formation holds the ring nebula

Edited September 27, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy

[Tamiyacowboy]

reverse of the HD-5000 Board, here you can plainly see the alloy plate heatsink

Red ring : here is the LED blacked out with artists acyrlic black paint

Green ring : this is the + tab for the autofocus, if you wish to disbale autofocus snip this solder tab ( desolder) this mod is used for mounting in a car)

blue ring: this is the - tab for the autofocus, you need to remove both green and blue for astrocam use.

centre board you can see the Cmos sensor (omnivision OV9712) and the pulled apart lens housing base plate. i use this to keep the sensor partly covered from fingers and mistakes, also allows for better aligning with its new home/case

remove the film can lid, and bore a hole roughly the size of the lens unit you removed, a english half pence size / new 5p . next black out the internal of your lens, as you see above. also cut the lip of your film can , and the bottom. you should have a tube and a cap. glue cap over your sensor housing and center of the ccd like above.

here we are, a finnished astro camera, made from a Webcam. the tube fits the telescope focuser perfect. plug in switch on camera software and start recording.

you may need to tinker a little to get a nice focus, via moving the focuser on telescope and/or moving the camera up and down in the focus tube. remember to lock the screws gentle to holdthe camera in place on the focuser on telescope.

as i mentioned almost any webcam would work from an expensive HD camera like above, or a cheap £4.99 argos webcam. the choice is yours.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Tamiyacowboy

[martleeds]

Cheers for the info, just finished putting it together, bit bigger than i thought, it came with a x3 barlow, then 3 lenses marked k20, sr4 and h12

Seems sturdy enough, goind to spend a few nights, finding my way around the scope first, then hopefully i will get ambitious with the web cam, out of curiosity, is auto focus best left enabled, or do we compensate for focus, on the scope itself