turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) So I got car back today and they say the clutch is the problem and is engaging causing the car to move on idle so going to get new clutch over the weekend. Issue is when brake is applied the engine dies will changing the clutch stop this from happening if it is the clutch engaging also on my brake arm it has plastic tubing over the rod. I being told that this should be a spring. Is this correct aswell if so what do u look on ebay for? And lastly the servo is starting to slip aswell so what servo is recommended for the firestorm 10t Edited October 22, 2014 by turtletom100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 So I have spoke with hpi technical team and they say to take engine out check the clutch bell and possibly take out a shim. How would I take a shim out do I need to all the shoes out to do this? I really hope not ad this is a pain to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashead Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Shim or washer? The clutch bell has a bearing in it and behind the bell could be a couple of washers. Perhaps they mean take one of these away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Shim or washer? The clutch bell has a bearing in it and behind the bell could be a couple of washers. Perhaps they mean take one of these away Possibly a washer the guy from hpi called it a shim. But there was about 4 there when I changed it so there is a possibility this is causing the clutch to engage. But tedious though taking one out putting altogether to try the car then if not take engine/clutch bell back out and take one washer/shim out to try again. He did say it could be bearings but he highly doubts it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If the clutch is dragging, and that is making the car move...then braking will stall the engine. Put in gear, let the clutch engage, then stand on the brakes........the engine is now trying to drive the car, but would have to overcome the brakes too. Doesn't take much to stall a small engine with a light flywheel. To investigate, you would need to take the motor out and get the clutchbell off. Don't see why shims would make the clutch engage unless it had been badly assembled and a wrong sized shim used. A shim is just a precise washer It's job is to take up the slack and stop the fore/aft movement of the bell. If a washer or shim that has too big a diameter is used, it will rub on the outer race of the bearing which is bad. The shims should only be in contact with the inner race of the bearings. Not unknown for people to just bung a washer in there that is hte right thickness and not consider it's diameter.... it will rub on the outer race, increase friction and ruin the bearings. Easy to tell if that has happened....with the motor out...spin the clutchbell. It should spin freely with no noise or resistance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 If the clutch is dragging, and that is making the car move...then braking will stall the engine. Put in gear, let the clutch engage, then stand on the brakes........the engine is now trying to drive the car, but would have to overcome the brakes too. Doesn't take much to stall a small engine with a light flywheel. To investigate, you would need to take the motor out and get the clutchbell off. Don't see why shims would make the clutch engage unless it had been badly assembled and a wrong sized shim used. A shim is just a precise washer It's job is to take up the slack and stop the fore/aft movement of the bell. If a washer or shim that has too big a diameter is used, it will rub on the outer race of the bearing which is bad. The shims should only be in contact with the inner race of the bearings. Not unknown for people to just bung a washer in there that is hte right thickness and not consider it's diameter.... it will rub on the outer race, increase friction and ruin the bearings. Easy to tell if that has happened....with the motor out...spin the clutchbell. It should spin freely with no noise or resistance. Cheers for replying. I have had a look tonight but I didn't take the engine out everyone says this needs to be done why is this? I removed the spur gear then spun the spur on the clutch bell and it spun really nice didn't grind, didn't judder just carried on and on spinning and spinning. Any way I took the bell off and noticed that a couple of the shoes had a hit of burr on the edges but the worst thing was I haven't used 1.1mm springs I have actually used 0.9mm springs. I personally am tempted to say that because of this this is causing the movement on idle please correct me if I am wrong. If this is the case I have got to order some 1.1mm springs as I seem to have misplaced mine (which is why I thought is had 1.1mm springs on already) Also I will use some emery cloth and get the bit of bur rubbed down when I do this. If needs be I will happily take a photo or 2 if this helps Cheers again for replying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pockets snakes Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Pics will prob help more than word bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCbutcher Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 pop the air filter off look at the gap between the slider and carb body then put the brakes on and see if it fully closes. You want it to be around 1mm gap wether brakes are applied or not. Be sure its not sticking open too meaning linkages are out of whack. If its been riding the clutch tho its probably worn the clutch out. half engaged clutch will just melt. Nitros advice is the best you can take mate. Engine removal isnt hard just 4 screws and pop the linkage and exhaust fixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 pop the air filter off look at the gap between the slider and carb body then put the brakes on and see if it fully closes. You want it to be around 1mm gap wether brakes are applied or not. Be sure its not sticking open too meaning linkages are out of whack. If its been riding the clutch tho its probably worn the clutch out. half engaged clutch will just melt. Nitros advice is the best you can take mate. Engine removal isnt hard just 4 screws and pop the linkage and exhaust fixing. Cheers for replying pal. I have had the car down the hobby shop as I could t stop the idling and they have set all the servo horn and carb back up. The gap is fine and I can close it and open it more using the tx so that's not the issue. She runs nice aswell other than the clutch engaging on idle which is causing headaches. I will upload some images and a video of the clutch bell in a second. The reason I have taken the engine out is because I forgot I had loctited the screws and attempted to remove them earlier and when my hex driver started spinning I remembered I heated the other 3 up and they come out fine but I got this one sob that won't budge I did try using a torx but still not having it so next option is to either drill the head and use pliers or cut a slot and use a flat head but I don't have a spare screw sitting around so going to buy some more over the weekend and then I'll have it out. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 If the clutch is dragging, and that is making the car move...then braking will stall the engine. Put in gear, let the clutch engage, then stand on the brakes........the engine is now trying to drive the car, but would have to overcome the brakes too. Doesn't take much to stall a small engine with a light flywheel. To investigate, you would need to take the motor out and get the clutchbell off. Don't see why shims would make the clutch engage unless it had been badly assembled and a wrong sized shim used. A shim is just a precise washer It's job is to take up the slack and stop the fore/aft movement of the bell. If a washer or shim that has too big a diameter is used, it will rub on the outer race of the bearing which is bad. The shims should only be in contact with the inner race of the bearings. Not unknown for people to just bung a washer in there that is hte right thickness and not consider it's diameter.... it will rub on the outer race, increase friction and ruin the bearings. Easy to tell if that has happened....with the motor out...spin the clutchbell. It should spin freely with no noise or resistance. Here is a video I done but as I can't get the engine out I done it while still attached on car but I would imagine it would be the same outcome if I was holding the engine aswell.http://youtu.be/x69fVAWWG0kPics will prob help more than word bud Here we go some pics and video of the clutch bell spinning nicely imo. Bell: http://youtu.be/x69fVAWWG0k They look worse in the photos as it is a close up but I am pretty sure just a light rub down with a bit of emery cloth to remove the burr that has "mushroomed" over the edge (if that's the correct term) and thicker springs will be fine but I am a bit of a noob with this so I might be wrong. Also they were all black but it appears two have gone to a reddy colour but I am under the impression this is just caused by the heat not to much to worry about. Any advice would be appreciated :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro-Guy69 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 dumb question, but you defo sure those clutch shoes are for that engine? i only ask as i think you said you changed them, also have you tryed replacing the other ones back on or where they ruined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 dumb question, but you defo sure those clutch shoes are for that engine? i only ask as i think you said you changed them, also have you tryed replacing the other ones back on or where they ruined? The engine is the stock hpi firestorm 10t g3.0 engine and I have had to fit a new flywheel to allow the triple shoes but that is what I read work for the firestorm really well. Or I can use a savage 3 shoe setup, or integy do a 3 shoe setup. And the old ones were integy and I don't know if they are rruined. I have never really seen a ruined set I changed clutch shoes one of the first things I done when got car and the person I bought it from had installed the integy ones I will get a photo later and upload of other ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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