Revorocks Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) So let me get this straight. Sirius OEM for Castle? Castle says no. If Castle are lying and they are, then Sirius has stolen Castles R&D and pays no royalties to Neu (which is not cool), so kinda contradicting as Castle shouldn't be lying about their affiliation. Sirius says they not affiliated with Castle, however strongly hints that they are. Castle denies strongly. Quote Patrick del Castillo Sirius motors is not affiliated with Castle Creations or Castle Holdings LLC in ANY way. Nicks evidence vs. Castles word for Castle/Sirius relationship proof. Edited June 8, 2012 by revorocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldblades7 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 poor old Nick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicideneil Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 ive had a motor missing with castle for months now.....which nullifies the warranty really and escs....well 1 example; when you consider the difference in sales, failure rates are no where near as bad as you might imagine. I have a little 35amp ezrun too Im sorry what? what decent brands? Oh, Castle? There decent? HAHA. Oh neil, you so silly its almost cute. *I'm *they're *it's It isn't just Castle who are dealing with cloners, look at all the stuff that rips off Tekin too. I feel sorry for you and all the other little brown-nosers who go around 'liking' each others posts, what sad pathetic lives you lead if that's how you deal with a serious discussion; points scoring with your mates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aterlatus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) It isn't just Castle who are dealing with cloners, look at all the stuff that rips off Tekin too. I feel sorry for you and all the other little brown-nosers who go around 'liking' each others posts, what sad pathetic lives you lead if that's how you deal with a serious discussion; points scoring with your mates... Come on now, no need for personal attacks. Edit: "You" in response to someone is generally considered personal... Edited June 8, 2012 by Aterlatus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicideneil Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If Castle are lying and they are, then Sirius has stolen Castles R&D and pays no royalties to Neu (which is not cool), so kinda contradicting as Castle shouldn't be lying about their affiliation. That makes no sense sorry- if Castle are telling the truth, then sirius has stolen both theirs & Neus R&D, and sirius pay no royalties to Neu either. If Castle are lying, then Sirius are either an OEM affiliate, or produce Castles motors for them. Which they don't since Castle has their own factory and only do OEM work with HPI & Traxxas- sirius has nothing to do with Castle.... Come on now, no need for personal attacks. Wasn't personal- I made no specific mention of names or called a specific individual pathetic, unlike Bubbles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexBruv Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) My Chinese ESC hasn't burn't up yet btw Neil. Edited June 8, 2012 by AlexBruv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 That makes no sense sorry- if Castle are telling the truth, then sirius has stolen both theirs & Neus R&D, and sirius pay no royalties to Neu either. If Castle are lying, then Sirius are either an OEM affiliate, or produce Castles motors for them. Which they don't since Castle has their own factory and only do OEM work with HPI & Traxxas- sirius has nothing to do with Castle.... Wasn't personal- I made no specific mention of names or called a specific individual pathetic, unlike Bubbles... I didn't call you thick. I said that it made you look a bit thick also, dont point the finger. you'll get brown on it. I love nutella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revorocks Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) That makes no sense sorry- if Castle are telling the truth, then sirius has stolen both theirs & Neus R&D, and sirius pay no royalties to Neu either. If Castle are lying, then Sirius are either an OEM affiliate, or produce Castles motors for them. Which they don't since Castle has their own factory and only do OEM work with HPI & Traxxas- sirius has nothing to do with Castle.... Wasn't personal- I made no specific mention of names or called a specific individual pathetic, unlike Bubbles... If they were affilliated then they would have all of the manufacturing equipment that is used to make the Castle motors, hence Sirius motors look and apparently perform EXACTLY like Castles. Meaning Castle are lying. So what I'm saying is yes it's wrong of Sirius to be producing these motors without having paid to do the R&D or paying royalties, but it's also wrong for Castle to be lying about having no affiliation with them, as they must've in order to get such identical motors. It's a bit confusing as I'm not good at explaining, but it's based on the fact Castle could be lying as Nick has photographic proof apparently. Either way I'm just trying to stay neutral and lay things out clearly. If Sirius are lying, then why does Nick apparently have pictures of Castle stock at the Sirius factory? So Nick is lying? Nick doesn't lie! But I hoped Castle doesn't either Edited June 8, 2012 by revorocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revorocks Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 It's a good discussion, so lets not start playground tactics. I'm enjoying the debate. Yes, there are a lot of clone companies out there. Firstly Castle or not, these are fantastic motors at a jaw-drop price. Anyone who has purchased one, can certainly say that! Now, Sirius were the producers of Castle Motors, same machines, same motors, Castle moved on to their own developments. Sirius are simply OEM Castle and are doing nothing wrong. The same sort of time, supply of Castle Motors went a little dry, prices shoot up (neodymium hype that didn't really effect any other motor brand?) and we are all fumbling our fingers wondering what they are doing. I can totally understand why Castle might lie, anyone who has built a multi-million dollar company would defend their interests... "Same motor for the third of the price?!? You are kidding me, they MUST be clones!" Wrong. These are the real deal. And here are some photos you may of not seen before of Castle motor stock at Sirius when Castle moved away... If you want me to get more photos, I can. I really don't know what I can do to prove it, Castle are always going to deny it, it just makes sense for them to. THANK YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicideneil Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 A pile of boxes with castle motor boxes inside ( cms36 at that... ); you have proven nothing- the 'sirius' splashed across the picture is a nice touch though. Point however: someone had to be making Castles little cms36 motors before Castle had their own factory- so it is possible that Sirius is the firm who did that for them. It proves nothing about the current generation of 4 pole motors however- more pictures and some context please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexBruv Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) A pile of boxes with castle motor boxes inside ( cms36 at that... ); you have proven nothing- the 'sirius' splashed across the picture is a nice touch though. Cue 'They're photoshopp....' Owait Oh and Neil, check the pictures again, There are some 2650's and 2200's on the boxes too. Edited June 8, 2012 by AlexBruv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Donalds Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 A pile of boxes with castle motor boxes inside ( cms36 at that... ); you have proven nothing- the 'sirius' splashed across the picture is a nice touch though. Point however: someone had to be making Castles little cms36 motors before Castle had their own factory- so it is possible that Sirius is the firm who did that for them. It proves nothing about the current generation of 4 pole motors however- more pictures and some context please... Actually, look in the second photo, there's boxes of 2650kv motors. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I have photos of 15 series stacked up high as well. I'll just make sure the next photo proves it a little more but unless I stick you on a plane over there, I can't see you changing your mind Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicideneil Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Cue 'They're photoshopp....' Owait Read my previous post; a pile of boxes with castle packing/cms36 motors proves nothing- there is no evidence to show where those pictures were taken. Like I said also, Castle had someone to make their older/small motors once, but they have had their own factory for a long time- when were these pictures taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Read my previous post; a pile of boxes with castle packing/cms36 motors proves nothing- there is no evidence to show where those pictures were taken. Like I said also, Castle had someone to make their older/small motors once, but they have had their own factory for a long time- when were these pictures taken? Earlier this year, I'll get some better photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicideneil Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Actually, look in the second photo, there's boxes of 2650kv motors. Matt The boxes seem to have every motor type/model on them- tick the correct box on the packaging to indicate which motors are actually inside. I have photos of 15 series stacked up high as well. I'll just make sure the next photo proves it a little more but unless I stick you on a plane over there, I can't see you changing your mind Neil. No need... Now, Sirius were the producers of Castle Motors, same machines, same motors, Castle moved on to their own developments. Sirius are simply OEM Castle and are doing nothing wrong. Like I said, Castle needed someone to be making their motors before Castle had their own facility- 'were' and 'are' OEM is a massive difference. Castle makes their own motors now, so Sirius has nothing to do with Castle anymore- they are trading on a false premise. The same sort of time, supply of Castle Motors went a little dry, prices shoot up (neodymium hype that didn't really effect any other motor brand?) and we are all fumbling our fingers wondering what they are doing. Incorrect, Bob Novak has publicly stated that Neodymium had pushed up their prices massively- there is backwards and forwards discussion between him & Patrick: http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30923 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?p=409181#post409181 I can totally understand why Castle might lie, anyone who has built a multi-million dollar company would defend their interests... "Same motor for the third of the price?!? You are kidding me, they MUST be clones!" Wrong. These are the real deal. And here are some photos you may of not seen before of Castle motor stock at Sirius when Castle moved away... It's pretty obvious what has happened here: 1. Company produces Castles motors for them, before Castle does it themselves/ moves to new facility. 2. Castle moves away, company does very little for several years it seems. 3. Company restarts production of motors, claims to be an OEM affliate of Castle. 4. Castle is rather unhappy as this is simply not the case- Sirius is its own independent business and no longer has anything to do with Castle, hence why Castle are taking legal action. I like legal stuff, I have the mind for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I've always said Sirius are their own independent company, you brought this up. They use the same machines and production line, that's it, they aren't doing anything wrong. They don't clone, they don't steal and have no involvement with Castle anymore. They are not trading on a fake premise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Garry Posted June 8, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2012 It's pretty obvious what has happened here: 1. Company produces Castles motors for them, before Castle does it themselves/ moves to new facility. 2. Castle moves away, company does very little for several years it seems. 3. Company restarts production of motors, claims to be an OEM affliate of Castle. 4. Castle is rather unhappy as this is simply not the case- Sirius is its own independent business and no longer has anything to do with Castle, hence why Castle are taking legal action... That situation is actually pretty common in RC. Haiboxing's range of Tamiya TL01-like cars were because the factory was comissioned by Tamiya to make the TL01 originally. When the contract ran out (or wasn't renewed), the OEM'er had the knowledge of how to injection mold, the contacts for raw materials etc. A quick change of body, wheels and tyres etc and screw on a foam bumper, and hey presto, Haiboxing carry on making whatever they want. Same situation with the first Speed Passion ESCs, some Futaba transmitters and other things you may or may not realise (for example, there are only around 5 or 6 sources worldwide for RC car tyres, that covers ANY scale or class. At one time, you could buy 5 differently branded touring car tyres which were identical, from the same factory in Japan). There aren't many facilities out there in the Western world which can mass-produce RC motors (because face it, we're a VERY niche hobby. Probably less than a million RC'ers in the world out of 7 billion), and just look on this forum about how quickly everyone is demanding cheaper prices, how XYZ brand is always overpriced etc. Outsourcing production is probably the sole reason you can buy an RTR nitro buggy for less than 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirius-kevin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi, everyone, Sirius is an independent company, and we do not have any relationship with the Castle. But the castle please mind your words and deeds, any questions, come to me, do not hurt my clients, or even slander Sirius brand, for we do not use your brand to sell Sirius motors. Why you do so for us, ask your senior leadship, for they know what happened before. If you want to deal it, come to my company to solve it, and I also have something to be handled with you. You should know the address of my company. In a word, any problems, come to me. Do not trouble my clients. Thank you 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 I totally agree Kevin. At the end of the day we want to prove Sirius motor quality and customer service. Try one, you won't be dissapointed, they are fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzokajoe Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 does this explain why the 2028's aren't ready? They're fairly New to the castle line... If sirius stopped producing castle motors a time ago.... Did they ever mass produce 2028's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Nope, different reason, Sirius 2028's do exist but not quite available for market yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzokajoe Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 hmmm... Would mgm do a deal on a matching pair of esc's i wonder... Two electric 1/5 > one electric 1/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yes I can help you with a good price from MGM, drop me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HATZY Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 guys usin the same raw materials on the same production lines on the same machines to the same/simillar spec is nothing new and perfectly legal unless the original designer has stipulated through patent that it cannot be coppied in any way. take for example wet wipes. i spent a while last year working in a wet wipe factory making wipes for the likes of tesco, sainsburys, morrison and even poundland. i used to run a tesco anti-bac surface wipe which was exactly the same as poundland surface anti-bac wipes except the only difference changing from tesco to poundland was runnin a pundland own film through instead of tesco. the cleaning solution was exactly the same between the 2 as was the fabric used, fold count and size, seal settings and weight settings, even the speed they run through the machine at was exactly the same 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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