FTX Vantage/Carnage owners Thread

[Iain .R]

Hi all . Well I found a vid and I found out to do the program card thing . 

The settings are 

(1) Operation  mode   ..

. positive and reverse belt proportional brake..

 

(2) mortar rotation  ....positive rotation .....

(3) start mode       ... level 4 

(4 )minimum forward strength..    7%

(5 )minimum backing strength  ..   7%

(6) maximum backing strength  ..   49%

(7) initial braking strength            ..    5%

(8) max braking  strength        .. 100%

(9 )Braking force                             0%

(10) neutral point strength         .33%

(11) brake frequency                  

(12) lilituim saving                      auto 

(13) low voltage protection   3.1v

(14) low voltage protection    on 

(15 )reverse max throttle stroke  1.1ms

(16) forward max throttle stroke  1.9ms 

(17 )sync reclitifacation ....  closed .  

 

This is factory settings   

Now what would you guys have these set at if this was yours .  Cheers 

[Iain .R]

13 hours ago, Iain .R said:

Hi all . Well I found a vid and I found out to do the program card thing . 

The settings are 

(1) Operation  mode   ..

. positive and reverse belt proportional brake..

 

(2) mortar rotation  ....positive rotation .....

(3) start mode       ... level 4 

(4 )minimum forward strength..    7%

(5 )minimum backing strength  ..   7%

(6) maximum backing strength  ..   49%

(7) initial braking strength            ..    5%

(8) max braking  strength        .. 100%

(9 )Braking force                             0%

(10) neutral point strength         .33%

(11) brake frequency                  

(12) lilituim saving                      auto 

(13) low voltage protection   3.1v

(14) low voltage protection    on 

(15 )reverse max throttle stroke  1.1ms

(16) forward max throttle stroke  1.9ms 

(17 )sync reclitifacation ....  closed .  

 

This is factory settings   

Now what would you guys have these set at if this was yours .  Cheers 

So what would you guys have your setting at on this . What would you change to make it better. faster.   

[Jens]

18 hours ago, Iain .R said:

3650 3300KV Brushless Motor + 45A ESC Card Combo Car Kit For 1/10 RC Car Truck.

 

.RoaringTop 7.4V 50C 5200mAh 2S RC Lipo Battery with Deans Connector for RC Car.

 

65T Alloy spur gear .

17T pinon .

 

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Iain .R said:

Hi all . Well I found a vid and I found out to do the program card thing . 

The settings are 

(1) Operation  mode   ..

. positive and reverse belt proportional brake..

 

(2) mortar rotation  ....positive rotation .....

(3) start mode       ... level 4 

(4 )minimum forward strength..    7%

(5 )minimum backing strength  ..   7%

(6) maximum backing strength  ..   49%

(7) initial braking strength            ..    5%

(8) max braking  strength        .. 100%

(9 )Braking force                             0%

(10) neutral point strength         .33%

(11) brake frequency                  

(12) lilituim saving                      auto 

(13) low voltage protection   3.1v

(14) low voltage protection    on 

(15 )reverse max throttle stroke  1.1ms

(16) forward max throttle stroke  1.9ms 

(17 )sync reclitifacation ....  closed .  

 

This is factory settings   

Now what would you guys have these set at if this was yours .  Cheers 

Normally I would say that the factory settings are somewhat good.

Otherwise many buyer would not be satisfied and return the ESC rather than set it up properly.

You understand what I mean?

 

From what I understand there can be 2 causes for the cogging.

One is that the battery is not able to supply the power (Amps) for the initial "punch". It would mean to reduce that initial punch. My guess that would be point 3 above.

 

The other one can be the pinion/spur ration.

If the pinion is too large, more power is needed to move the car initially. Not enough power = cogging.

I have a 10/47 teeth ratio: 0.213

Mine also works with 12/47=0.255

You have 17/65=0.261. Are you sure that you have a 65T spur? It's rather big.

If yes, it seems to be ok.

 

Then it comes back to the battery and the initial punch.

Do you have a link for the ESC/motor and the battery?

Maybe I can find some more information about them.

 

 

[Redback]

Hes talking about his outlaw so the gearing means nothing as hes got one choice @Iain .R dont take this the wrong way but try to not duplicate the same query over multiple threads to prevent confusion. As this setup is in an outlaw wait for a response there or start a thread in general electric about your esc queries will get more eyes also. 🙂

[Jens]

2 minutes ago, Redback said:

Hes talking about his outlaw so the gearing means nothing as hes got one choice @Iain .R dont take this the wrong way but try to not duplicate the same query over multiple threads to prevent confusion. As this setup is in an outlaw wait for a response there or start a thread in general electric about your esc queries will get more eyes also. 🙂

ooops.

I couldn't possibly know that part...

[Iain .R]

1 hour ago, Redback said:

Hes talking about his outlaw so the gearing means nothing as hes got one choice @Iain .R dont take this the wrong way but try to not duplicate the same query over multiple threads to prevent confusion. As this setup is in an outlaw wait for a response there or start a thread in general electric about your esc queries will get more eyes also. 🙂

Hi   it's ok.   It's not in my outlaw ....... its was and its was cogging.like mad and too fast to stop it rolling . 

 

So I swapped it all   

 

Its ALL IN THE... CARNAGE  now   sorry for the confusion .  

 

As I did say in the   outlaw   as that's what I put it in 1st   then swapped it all in to the CARNAGE     that's why is now in the carnage section/thread .  

 

Cheers  sorry for the confusion 

[Iain .R]

1 hour ago, Jens said:

 

 

 

Normally I would say that the factory settings are somewhat good.

Otherwise many buyer would not be satisfied and return the ESC rather than set it up properly.

You understand what I mean?

 

From what I understand there can be 2 causes for the cogging.

One is that the battery is not able to supply the power (Amps) for the initial "punch". It would mean to reduce that initial punch. My guess that would be point 3 above.

 

The other one can be the pinion/spur ration.

If the pinion is too large, more power is needed to move the car initially. Not enough power = cogging.

I have a 10/47 teeth ratio: 0.213

Mine also works with 12/47=0.255

You have 17/65=0.261. Are you sure that you have a 65T spur? It's rather big.

If yes, it seems to be ok.

 

Then it comes back to the battery and the initial punch.

Do you have a link for the ESC/motor and the battery?

Maybe I can find some more information about them.

 

 

Hi the  CARNAGE  spur gear and pinon  are stock . I just bought an alloy one ......

 

65 Tooth Aluminum Spur Gear for Quanum Vandal, FTX Vantage/Carnage....

 

The pinon is the standard brass 17T .  

 

Lipos are 

RoaringTop 7.4V 50C 5200mAh 2S RC Lipo Battery with Deans Connector for RC Car Truck Truggy Boat(2 Packs...

The motor and esc  is   ebay    ......224358578537.....its was recommended on here /outlaw thread i think it was .. 

The combo set includes 3650 3300KV/4P brushless motor, 45A brushless ESC and programming card which is suit for 1/10 scale RC car. It is built from high quality aluminum alloy which is produced from the latest CNC milling machines. This motor is designed with high power and rotation speed to provide longer run time with its high efficiency. And the ESC is built with the highest quality components to ensure high efficiency operation. When you connect the ESC with the program card, you could tune and tweak all your favorite settings, such as cut-off voltage, brake and punch strength, drag brake and other parameters that add up to an incredible RC driving experience

[Iain .R]

1 hour ago, Redback said:

Hes talking about his outlaw so the gearing means nothing as hes got one choice @Iain .R dont take this the wrong way but try to not duplicate the same query over multiple threads to prevent confusion. As this setup is in an outlaw wait for a response there or start a thread in general electric about your esc queries will get more eyes also. 🙂

Hi m8 no  it's all now in the CARNAGE . as it was too fast once it got going for the outlaw . 

[Iain .R]

Hi so ok iv upper the  settings on the program . 

[Iain .R]

[Iain .R]

The red dots are now what the setting are at   

No 4  was at 7%      now at 25%

No 5 was at 7%       now at 20% 

No6  was 49%          now  at 58% 

No7  5%                        now at 22% 

No13   set at 3.1v    now 3.3v 

No 15  was 1.1ms    now 1.067ms

No 16 was 1.9ms      now at 1.867ms

 

So iv upped the power/strength 

Upped the battey cut/safe 

And cut the time on response to the trigger. 

 

Yet it still stutters and slow take off . 

Like it was pull the trigger and the car  is off now 

Pull the trigger  mmm ok I'm off .

 

[Iain .R]

I tried to show a short vid but wont load .

You pull the trigger back and when it's off the floor the wheels turn instantly  but when it's on the floor you pull the trigger and its chugging noise then off it goes . . Any idea   . I'll put this in the electrica section   see if anyone else knows .  Cheers . 

[Iain .R]

I just went outside and had a bash on the road  .and it's slow to start the shoots off drives like it's on drugs  then when you stop go in reverse again bit slow to move the off like a rocket 

 

on grass  very hard to get it to move i had to  push it with my foot to get it to move  . 

Brushed it would  tear up the grass   now its bogged down.   WTF .. 

 

[Jens]

21 minutes ago, Iain .R said:

I tried to show a short vid but wont load .

You pull the trigger back and when it's off the floor the wheels turn instantly  but when it's on the floor you pull the trigger and its chugging noise then off it goes . . Any idea   . I'll put this in the electrica section   see if anyone else knows .  Cheers . 

If you increase the power then more "juice" is in demand.

If your battery cannot deliver than the motor is cogging.

So to reduce cogging you need to reduce the power.

 

But that counts only for the initial start.

Can you try to set "3: Start Mode" to value 1?

 

 

Edit: Ignore that part, based on your parallel post just now.

Another thing, more mechanical:

Open the cover for the pinion/gear.

Put the car on the floor and hold it tight.

Pull the throttle.

There should be no slipping anywhere. Mesh and slipper clutch.

See if the spur is stuttering.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jens

[Iain .R]

49 minutes ago, Jens said:

If you increase the power then more "juice" is in demand.

If your battery cannot deliver than the motor is cogging.

So to reduce cogging you need to reduce the power.

 

But that counts only for the initial start.

Can you try to set "3: Start Mode" to value 1?

 

 

Edit: Ignore that part, based on your parallel post just now.

Another thing, more mechanical:

Open the cover for the pinion/gear.

Put the car on the floor and hold it tight.

Pull the throttle.

There should be no slipping anywhere. Mesh and slipper clutch.

See if the spur is stuttering.

 

Hi yes I held the car  supr an the pinon and it stutters . Would not go I only pulled the trigger a little bit but it stuttered .  ?????? What do you think   to do now .

Edited March 8, 2021 by Iain .R

[Jens]

27 minutes ago, Iain .R said:

Hi yes I held the car  supr an the pinon and it stutters . Would not go I only pulled the trigger a little bit but it stuttered .  ?????? What do you think   to do now .

Set "3: Start Mode" to value 1.

It's free try without much work :-)

 

Edit: Is it about your Carnage with the Outlaw parts?

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jens

[Iain .R]

42 minutes ago, Jens said:

Set "3: Start Mode" to value 1.

It's free try without much work 🙂

No it's worse wont move now 

[Jens]

1 minute ago, Iain .R said:

No it's worse wont move now 

Try increasing the values. 2 now.

I don't know your ESC. So we need to try.

My idea is that you different ways to reduce the initial punch and therefore not drawing so much power.

[Iain .R]

1 hour ago, Jens said:

Try increasing the values. 2 now.

I don't know your ESC. So we need to try.

My idea is that you different ways to reduce the initial punch and therefore not drawing so much power.

Sorted  I get you . Cheers 

[Iain .R]

2 hours ago, Iain .R said:

Sorted  I get you . Cheers 

I went all way thro to 10  .. 9 was the most responsive.  But still not quite as quick off the mark . I'll take it apart again tomorrow  and see what I can find   .  Cheers . 

[Iain .R]

Ok  had a mess about with the carnage  and and the car still dont want to move right away pull the trigger and .........then the car moves . If you hold the car and pull the trigger ....... it just stutters there is   NO force there at all to move the car.  

If it was on a hill  it would just sit there   theres not torque behind/from the motor least bit of resistance and it just stutters . 

I even undone the 2 screws of the motor and run the car moving the motor closer to the spur  till it sounded real sweet then tightened the screws put it on the floor ........still slow take off ..moved a wee bit ..  so I know iv not got the pinon to close to the spur (done the paper test aswell ) .. 

 

Might just swap it all back to brushed and bin brushless  the esc and motor  

Buy another esc   ( 7.2V-16V High Voltage 320A Brush Speed Controller ESC For 1/10 RC Car Truck Boat) 

that I can run the lipos on the brushed motor  to get some use out them.. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Iain .R

[Jens]

30 minutes ago, Iain .R said:

Ok  had a mess about with the carnage  and and the car still dont want to move right away pull the trigger and .........then the car moves . If you hold the car and pull the trigger ....... it just stutters there is   NO force there at all to move the car.  

If it was on a hill  it would just sit there   theres not torque behind/from the motor least bit of resistance and it just stutters . 

I even undone the 2 screws of the motor and run the car moving the motor closer to the spur  till it sounded real sweet then tightened the screws put it on the floor ........still slow take off ..moved a wee bit ..  so I know iv not got the pinon to close to the spur (done the paper test aswell ) .. 

 

Might just swap it all back to brushed and bin brushless  the esc and motor  

Buy another esc   ( 7.2V-16V High Voltage 320A Brush Speed Controller ESC For 1/10 RC Car Truck Boat) 

that I can run the lipos on the brushed motor  to get some use out them.. 

Don't bin the ESC yet.

Have you tried other settings?

(4 )minimum forward strength --> try different values.

 

But before you buy another ESC I would rather wait and save the money for a proper Combo.

 

Maybe you ask in "General - Electric" for some good recommendations within your budget.

It doesn't have to be the Hobbywing Max10 like I have. Even though I would highly recommend it.

 

 

 

 

[Iain .R]

3 minutes ago, Jens said:

Don't bin the ESC yet.

Have you tried other settings?

(4 )minimum forward strength --> try different values.

 

But before you buy another ESC I would rather wait and save the money for a proper Combo.

 

Maybe you ask in "General - Electric" for some good recommendations within your budget.

It doesn't have to be the Hobbywing Max10 like I have. Even though I would highly recommend it.

 

 

 

 

Hi I just been reading the thread about  lower pinons and spurs helping. 

 

I have a standard 17t and 65t  spur  are they to big  would that help .

I'll have a look at the forward strength.  

 

I dont mind the work out as I enjoy this . 

 

But due to my disability sitting in a chair is very very painful. So I only have about 10mins sitting time to 40mins lieing flat on.my back .  (If I could work lieing on my back  I'd fix it by now lol ) . 

Ok I'll have a go at the no4   cheers 

 

Let me know on the spur /pinon   plz . Thanks 

[Jens]

3 minutes ago, Iain .R said:

Hi I just been reading the thread about  lower pinons and spurs helping. 

 

I have a standard 17t and 65t  spur  are they to big  would that help .

I'll have a look at the forward strength.  

 

I dont mind the work out as I enjoy this . 

 

But due to my disability sitting in a chair is very very painful. So I only have about 10mins sitting time to 40mins lieing flat on.my back .  (If I could work lieing on my back  I'd fix it by now lol ) . 

Ok I'll have a go at the no4   cheers 

 

Let me know on the spur /pinon   plz . Thanks 

Hi Iain,

 

take a rest and recover your back.

 

Some maths for you read lying down:

 

Pinion/Spur ratios:

You: 17/65 = 0.262 reduction ratio

Mine: 10/47 = 0.213

( 12/47=0.255 also works for me, but that's probably because of the Hobbywing motor design )

 

Now I take the KV rating of our motors into the calculation, as it also affects the performance. KV = Motor RPM if 1 Volt is applied to the motor.

 

You: 3300*17/65 = 863rpm@1Volt

Mine: 4000*10/47 = 851rpm@1Volt

 

Your revs are a little bit higher.

The lower the revs, the higher the torque, the less cogging.

 

I think the last hope that you have is to use a smaller pinion.

But then I don't know if it will solve your problem.

It just be that your motor/ESC is not really suitable for bashing with your Carnage.

 

 

 

[Iain .R]

12 minutes ago, Jens said:

Hi Iain,

 

take a rest and recover your back.

 

Some maths for you read lying down:

 

Pinion/Spur ratios:

You: 17/65 = 0.262 reduction ratio

Mine: 10/47 = 0.213

( 12/47=0.255 also works for me, but that's probably because of the Hobbywing motor design )

 

Now I take the KV rating of our motors into the calculation, as it also affects the performance. KV = Motor RPM if 1 Volt is applied to the motor.

 

You: 3300*17/65 = 863rpm@1Volt

Mine: 4000*10/47 = 851rpm@1Volt

 

Your revs are a little bit higher.

The lower the revs, the higher the torque, the less cogging.

 

I think the last hope that you have is to use a smaller pinion.

But then I don't know if it will solve your problem.

It just be that your motor/ESC is not really suitable for bashing with your Carnage.

 

 

 

Hi . Cheers thanks for doing this.   

Iv upped the no 4 to max 10 which is 25%.   

I also re lined the motor up again this time bit help from my daugher as I was moving the motor top then bottom vice vers  till sounded nice 

Now I had her to move the whole motor as one till it sounded nice  then held it till I secured it . With doing them the car goes a bit quicker of the mark but have to pull the trigger slow    not on Mark's set go .

Then the car moves a lot off quicker . 

It's a lot better   not been outside yet as i need lie down .. 

 

As for your math   I have a 17t on there what would you  try next.   As I dont mind swapping the pinon an spur . 

 

Cheers