daveyboi73 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Well the 1st prototype for the flash came today!!!!!! The quality is exellent and it is almost a direct exchange with the ansmann stock gearing!!! I have run it today with a 21x2,17x2,15x2and a 12x1 motor and have had no sticking brushes,no thrown winds and no over heating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The spur mount is machined alloy,the spur is made from black engineering plastic,and is a 48DP gear with 73 teeth,and is is the same size as the stock ansmann spur so there is no modding to be done to the gear cover etc!!! There is a slight mod to be done to the motor mount but i will explain this with pics once the final design is in place!! I have used 19,21 and 23 tooth long boss rw pinions,and have found the 21 tooth to be the best compromise for the moment!! I will install the brushless system tommorrow,and see how the gears stand up!!! There are a few adjustments and design changes to be made and a bit more testing,and im looking at getting a brace or a new machined motor mount to eliminate flexing on heavier landings!!! This conversion is also smacker compatable,and will allow use of 21-26tooth 48 dp pinions, alowing a much more flexable range of ratios for different tracks etc A few pics I will keep you all posted on progress,and hope to have some sets ready soon!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evoboy Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Very nice. Was the one area that let the truck down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langy21 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Very nice. Was the one area that let the truck down. It's all sounding very promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtyRC Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Looks great, so long as the motor mount modification isn't too drastic! This could be the saving of my large stock wheels, I have switched to the Ansmann Worm on-road tyres atm XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Looks great, so long as the motor mount modification isn't too drastic! This could be the saving of my large stock wheels, I have switched to the Ansmann Worm on-road tyres atm XD The motor mount mod involves a litlle bit of filing,to make the inner slot a little wider,and the use of some flat head motor screws ,to allow a little more sideways adjustment,nothing major at all The prototype worked ok,and has been returned for a few minor alterations! I may try a hardened steel spur,like the traxxas models use,but i am trying to keep the overall cost down,as im trying to keep the price around the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtyRC Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 The motor mount mod involves a litlle bit of filing,to make the inner slot a little wider,and the use of some flat head motor screws ,to allow a little more sideways adjustment,nothing major at all The prototype worked ok,and has been returned for a few minor alterations! I may try a hardened steel spur,like the traxxas models use,but i am trying to keep the overall cost down,as im trying to keep the price around the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naymo Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 hows the 'project' going cos if its good i want one of these come to think of it i NEED 2!!! as i have melted 3 spurs with my brushless/lipo set up and am slowly getting cheesed off!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrklaw Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm also interested - does it help with motors with shorter spindles? upgraded to an orion vortex brushless and the pinion is really on the very end of the spindle to mesh properly - if your kit allows more leeway in that it'd be great. and gearing it down a bit to help keep my motor cool would be good too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alzner Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm interested too. I've already smoked 2 motors so I really need it geared down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) hey, hows it going now? Edited July 3, 2009 by Haza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naymo Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 pleassssseee bring us the good news sooon!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfputter Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 i need one of these sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haza Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 i need one of these sooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad! same, my 2nd spur in a month is on its last legs and iv even modded the mount to keep it in mesh and get a little more life out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Hi guys Neil at r/w has been away for abit but hes back now and said he will finish off the third prototype this week!!!! we are just getting the spur thickness right,and as long as it stands up to the brushless,he will knock a batch out asap! As all you chaps use different setups etc,after fitting if you could offer general feed back and thoughts,to help further development,will be great!!!!! I am possibly looking at a steel spur for longevity,and if these kits are successfull,ill be looking at a proper ball LSD (ball diff) conversion too! Anyone with a smacker will benefit from this as well,and if there is enough interest,ill ask for a full range of pinions,to be made from 22-28 tooth 48 dp,as the pinions for this kit are slightly different to the normal long boss in length!!!! It wont be long now : ) Edited July 4, 2009 by daveyboi73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 I'm also interested - does it help with motors with shorter spindles? upgraded to an orion vortex brushless and the pinion is really on the very end of the spindle to mesh properly - if your kit allows more leeway in that it'd be great. and gearing it down a bit to help keep my motor cool would be good too Hi m8 Its being made so that standard motors can be used,as custom long boss pinions will be shipped with the kit! I ould also cut a slot under the motor, as this allows tuned motors lo expell hot air,and it will run cooler!! : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe of loath Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Wouldn't an adapter for a regular plastic spur be better? as long as the mount keeps it still, it shouldn't strip, and you get lots more gearing options than with one steel spur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Wouldn't an adapter for a regular plastic spur be better? as long as the mount keeps it still, it shouldn't strip, and you get lots more gearing options than with one steel spur Good point !!! I went down this route before the gear kit option,and only found the other spurs that would be too large in diameter or too thin!!! The problem with the flash is you have very limited space in the spur housing,and i tried variuos setups etc and these did work,but it meant modding the housing etc which isnt a user freindly option,as these truggys are mostly bought by newcomers etc! The biggest design flaw in the flash is the pinion size(length),the badly moulded spur mount slightly of center,so requires tighter than necessary meshing,hence cooked motors,and the fact that the gearing at 7.1 is stupidly high for the size wheels used!!! The only way to feasibly lower the ratio enough to be useful is to make a spur,that although is the roughly the same diameter as the kit supplied 64 tooth,a lower pitch(48DP)and have more teeth,which works out at 73 teeth (48 DP)! I tried 64 dp,but as the spur cover is open at the rear the teeth were to prone to dust and small stone damage, The other hassle is the rediculous pinion size(length) and even the standard long boss pinions are a little to short to be mounetd safely on a standard motor,so pinions of 22 teeth (48 dp) are being machined to the correct length to allow fitment of any standard size brushed or brushless motor setups,and will lower the ratio to about 11/1!! This is the only practical,but user freindly way to solve this!!! The kits will ship with machined delrin gears,and a steel pinion and i will also ask for some steel spurs to be made if user feedback suggests this as an option(Mainly for high power/high torque brushless setups) I have asked for the alloy mount to have the same holes as the standard ansmann mount,so it can be used also in the smacker buggy,to allow correct alignment of kit spur,and so that it can be used also in a flash if owner wants to keep the motor stock,but doesnt want it burning out due to over tight meshing,or stripping spurs cos they are to loose Im tying to offer as many solutions as possible!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleks Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) My calculations: motor kV .............4700 V................................7,2 P (W)............................200 tire diameter (inch).............4,22 transmition ratio................2,6 max rpm..........................33840 _____________________________64T/21T______81/21T_____81/17T_____64T/T10_____64T/T14 Rollout Ratio ____________________1,673_______1,317______1,070_______0,797_______1,115 Gearing Quotient _________________7,924______10,067_____12,388______16,640______11,886 Pinion:Spur Ratio _________________3,048_______3,857______4,765_______6,400_______4,571 max rpm / GQ (max RPM/TIRE)_______4270________3361_______2731_______2033________2847 max speed (km/h)___________________86__________67_________55_________41_________57 _______________________________overheat ! Tire Circumference ( inch )_______________________13,258________________ Tire Circumference (meter)_______________________0,337________________ I assume that trans. gear ratio is 2,6. It seems that the best is to replace 64T/21T for 64/14, or 64/10. Rollout Ratio shold be near 1, or below 1 for 4700kV. Edited July 5, 2009 by Aleks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 My calculations: motor kV .............4700 V................................7,2 P (W)............................200 tire diameter (inch).............4,22 transmition ratio................2,6 max rpm..........................33840 _____________________________64T/21T______81/21T_____81/17T_____64T/T10_____64T/T14 Rollout Ratio ____________________1,673_______1,317______1,070_______0,797_______1,115 Gearing Quotient _________________7,924______10,067_____12,388______16,640______11,886 Pinion:Spur Ratio _________________3,048_______3,857______4,765_______6,400_______4,571 max rpm / GQ (max RPM/TIRE)_______4270________3361_______2731_______2033________2847 max speed (km/h)___________________86__________67_________55_________41_________57 _______________________________overheat ! Tire Circumference ( inch )_______________________13,258________________ Tire Circumference (meter)_______________________0,337________________ I assume that trans. gear ratio is 2,6. It seems that the best is to replace 64T/21T for 64/14, or 64/10. Rollout Ratio shold be near 1, or below 1 for 4700kV. Another good point !!!! The problem with going that small on the pinion is the space between the motor and main shaft,as to run any pinion below 19 teeth in any pitch will cause motor body and alloy main shaft contact !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I have just phoned neil at r/w and he will be shipping final prototype on weds, so the kit will be in the flash and trashed to destruction the coming weekend!! If alls well, anyone who is interested in the conversion can post here,so i can get an idea of how many initial units i will need for the first batch,would be great! Im not sure on price yet but will try to keep it as low as possible!!! The spur gear shipped with the kit will be fine with any brushed motor, but if any problems with brushless setups are encountered,a replacement steel spur will be made to replace the delrin one! A longer pinion(initially 22 tooth 48 DP) will be included that will be the original length so standard motors can be used!!! If any one just wants to stick to standard motors for the time being,just post and ill send you just the spur mount,as you can use the sandard spur,pinion and mtor,but with out the hassle of binding etc,as the spur will run true! Any smacker owners will also benefit from the spur mount,and if there is enough interest,i can get 0.6 pitch correct length pinions machined up ( 19-24 tooth) to run on the kit 64 tooth spur to give you a wider ratio choice!!! The only mod need to fit the kit involves filing a small amount from the motor mount ,but i will post with pictures how to do this!!! Wil keep ya posted cheers dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleks Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 You can check you gearing: http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/gearwizard.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 You can check you gearing: http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/gearwizard.cfm I can see your point m8 but the problem is the pinion size,and the simple fact that unless you make your flash 2wd,you will never fit any pinion below 19 teeth,whatever pitch!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleks Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) I can see your point m8 but the problem is the pinion size,and the simple fact that unless you make your flash 2wd,you will never fit any pinion below 19 teeth,whatever pitch!!!!! I can see your point too, of course. Can you make some test? Put on wheels from smacker, You will get Rollout Ratio about 1,3. And a question, what is DP of original spur? Edited July 7, 2009 by Aleks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboi73 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I can see your point too, of course. Can you make some test? Put on wheels from smacker, You will get Rollout Ratio about 1,3. And a question, what is DP of original spur? Hi m8 I have run normal buggy wheels on the flash,and due to the gearing being correct for the smaller wheels,there are no problems,and due to the extra wide arms, it handles briliantly,but the ground clearanc is drastically reduced,hindering offroad performance,and it looks a little odd too ! The spurs dp is the same as the tamiya at 0.6 pitch,which is a little finer than standard 32 dp,but just slightly larger than standard 48 dp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleks Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) Well, you are right. Spur is only 1.1 mm below Rear Upper Deck, and gap between motor and Shaft Drive Joint is only 2 mm. Anyway, I'm searching hours web to find about 80T spur with suitable inner hole diameter. Do you know some? Edited July 7, 2009 by Aleks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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