This old age question!!

[Jray2955]

So I've seen loads of old posts about HPI Baja and FG Marder but nothing that's very relevant or new.

I'm looking at getting a 1/5 petrol for bashing and having fun with, I've been looking for a few months on and off but recent issues with a new purchase has pushed me to get one finally.

But I'm torn between the HPI and the FG, on a superficial level the FG looks better but beyond that I'm lost.

Can any of you great people advise me please of parts availability, fun factor, reliability of both etc?

Thanks

[Bajadre]

Bajas are the standard staple of  1/5th jray plenty of hopup parts etc have you looked at the losi 1/5th range also MCD do buggies 👍

one advice is make sure you have somewhere to run them as there big and loud  2 strokers 

[Jray2955]

I love the Losi models but my budget just won't extend to that.

OK Baja it is.

There is old quarries and common land around me to play on and no one saying you CANT take them there.

[Nitroholic]

For the money .... I got more fun and better reliability from the Baja compared to the couple of FG's I owned.

[Jray2955]

On 16/05/2023 at 22:29, Nitroholic said:

For the money .... I got more fun and better reliability from the Baja compared to the couple of FG's I owned.

Thanks for the input I've got my self a KM 001 Baja and I'm very happy with it other than a few little things.

Is it OK to PM you with some questions?

You seem pretty clued up on these KM trucks.

[Nitroholic]

Sure.

 

I owned a genuine HPI BAja and still have a KM001 ... though its not anywhere near stock now...

[Tug]

I always say keep the chat public, that way we all learn. 

[Jray2955]

No that's fair enough.

 

[Jray2955]

On 19/05/2023 at 18:03, Nitroholic said:

Sure.

 

I owned a genuine HPI BAja and still have a KM001 ... though its not anywhere near stock now...

I've just brought a second hand KM001 that hasn't done much at all.

I've put about 5 litres through it so far and love it, I can't say I'm looking for anymore performance as it runs really well and although the handling is very dramatic with lots of fishtailing that could be remedied with throttle control.

The only issues I've had is a snapped rear upper arm from a heavy rumble tumble and the body shell is made of crisps and snaps as soon as look at it but I'm not overly concerned with that.

 

The only thing I don't like is the steering servo is very lazy and really isn't up to much its the standard one I think and needs upgrading but I'm not sure what will be suitable if you can advise?

Same with the throttle and brake servo?

 

I want to upgrade the plastic parts to something more durable but I don't like the idea of aluminium so what are some good quality plastic arms etc?

 

And finally what parts are interchangeable with the KM and the HPI?

I don't need a comprehensive list but just in general what parts can transfer over?

As I say the only mods I want to make are for durability like the arms, shell etc and the suspension will be next on my list, only because the motocrosser inside me knows that quality suspension is worth more than shiny bits or power!

 

Sorry for all the questions.

 

James

[Nitroholic]

I swapped in HPI arms when I busted them on my KM. I seemed to break rear uppers .... but I did on my HPI too. Must be something in the way it lands in a rollover.
There were aftermarket ones available from RPM which are a decent upgrade.

 

KM shells are ABS, not lexan, so they crack and shatter. HPI ones are much more flexible.

 

For a steering servo, I used a Hitec 5755 .... Don;t think they are used now...but the newer version should work well  ..  https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/117691/

just check the dimensions of the sewrvo case, as there is limited room. I used 20kg Savox metal geared units for throttle and brake.  Set the end points carefully, as you don;t want to stress the servo on full throttle pulling against the stops. 

 

As far as parts compatability go.... the only differences are in the gearbox and internal gears. HPI ones have a different gear ratio.

 

One thing I would do, though, is to pull apart the gearbox, open up the diff and fill with good quiality 10k silicon diff oil. If the diff case inside the gearbox isn't metal...upgrade. Pack the gearbox with a good amount of CV grease, and that will be good.

 

If you need better stopping power... this: https://www.rcmodelz.co.uk/rcr-brake-upgrade-kit-for-hpi-baja-5b-5t-5sc.html

is worth fitting. Had very good results with this, but upgfrade the servo first. The KM servos were not very good as you have already noticed.

 

I found the stock shocks to be OK, just play around with oil weights until you get a setup you are happy with. I found that stock Baja 5wt oil was good, as the buggy tends to squat under power, and the light oil helped with rebound. I used stiffer DDM springs too.

Hostile big bearing rear uprights are a good upgrade as well.

[Jray2955]

17 hours ago, Nitroholic said:

I swapped in HPI arms when I busted them on my KM. I seemed to break rear uppers .... but I did on my HPI too. Must be something in the way it lands in a rollover.
There were aftermarket ones available from RPM which are a decent upgrade.

 

KM shells are ABS, not lexan, so they crack and shatter. HPI ones are much more flexible.

 

For a steering servo, I used a Hitec 5755 .... Don;t think they are used now...but the newer version should work well  ..  https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/117691/

just check the dimensions of the sewrvo case, as there is limited room. I used 20kg Savox metal geared units for throttle and brake.  Set the end points carefully, as you don;t want to stress the servo on full throttle pulling against the stops. 

 

As far as parts compatability go.... the only differences are in the gearbox and internal gears. HPI ones have a different gear ratio.

 

One thing I would do, though, is to pull apart the gearbox, open up the diff and fill with good quiality 10k silicon diff oil. If the diff case inside the gearbox isn't metal...upgrade. Pack the gearbox with a good amount of CV grease, and that will be good.

 

If you need better stopping power... this: https://www.rcmodelz.co.uk/rcr-brake-upgrade-kit-for-hpi-baja-5b-5t-5sc.html

is worth fitting. Had very good results with this, but upgfrade the servo first. The KM servos were not very good as you have already noticed.

 

I found the stock shocks to be OK, just play around with oil weights until you get a setup you are happy with. I found that stock Baja 5wt oil was good, as the buggy tends to squat under power, and the light oil helped with rebound. I used stiffer DDM springs too.

Hostile big bearing rear uprights are a good upgrade as well.

Thanks it's actually the threaded rod in between the ball joint and the arms where it snapped so not the actual arms themselves.

I've just reordered the same part for now as it's not worth upgrading all the arms just yet.

When I do though I'll will be on the look out for a nice set, the RPM seem a little hard to find and when you do they are pretty pricey.

The new stuff from Rcmodelz looks like it's copying their design as well I noticed.

Any other recommended brands for suspension arms?

 

I will look into that servo and I'm already ahead of you on the diff front 😉 

I would like more run time from the battery though what is a common upgrade for them?

Where can I find the lexan shells? A Google search just points me toward the Chinese abs cheap looking ones?

 

[Nitroholic]

Try and find an actual genuine HPI shell.

 

I basically stripped my KM down to bare bones, and rebuilt with good trhreadlock, overhauled diffs, greased gearbox etc. Threw out the servos, and fitted a good alloy ****ch support. It was still plastic on the one I got.

I also did the clucth bolt mod......
As stock, the pinion is held onto the clucth bell by a 4mm allen bolt screwed in from outside. It can snap under load, and when it does...it snaps flush with the bell and is a bitch to remove. The cusre was to find a slightly longer M4 caphead, and screw it in from the inside, holding the pinion on with an m4 nyloc nut. That way...if it snaps...you can easily get the bolt stub out from the bell, and replace it.

 

As far as susp[ension arms go... I haven;t used any others. Would never use ally ones

[Jray2955]

2 hours ago, Nitroholic said:

Try and find an actual genuine HPI shell.

 

I basically stripped my KM down to bare bones, and rebuilt with good trhreadlock, overhauled diffs, greased gearbox etc. Threw out the servos, and fitted a good alloy ****ch support. It was still plastic on the one I got.

I also did the clucth bolt mod......
As stock, the pinion is held onto the clucth bell by a 4mm allen bolt screwed in from outside. It can snap under load, and when it does...it snaps flush with the bell and is a bitch to remove. The cusre was to find a slightly longer M4 caphead, and screw it in from the inside, holding the pinion on with an m4 nyloc nut. That way...if it snaps...you can easily get the bolt stub out from the bell, and replace it.

 

As far as susp[ension arms go... I haven;t used any others. Would never use ally ones

That makes sense I'll do that when I strip it down, and have you any advice in terms of battery life?

[Nitroholic]

Sorry, Not really.
I just used the highest Mah hump pack I could find

[Jray2955]

9 minutes ago, Nitroholic said:

Sorry, Not really.
I just used the highest Mah hump pack I could find

Thanks and with the threaded rod in the rear arm have you had much luck getting it out as mine has snapped flush and would be nice to keep as a spare?

[Nitroholic]

Nope. I binned mine.

Mine was just below flush. Tried to slot it to screw it out, but when I tried to screw in a fresh threaded rod...the arm was spreading where I had cut in to get the stub out...so I didn;t trust it.

Put in a new replacement instead. I got hold of a few, and used to carry a pair as spares.

[Jray2955]

On 21/05/2023 at 21:58, Nitroholic said:

Nope. I binned mine.

Mine was just below flush. Tried to slot it to screw it out, but when I tried to screw in a fresh threaded rod...the arm was spreading where I had cut in to get the stub out...so I didn;t trust it.

Put in a new replacement instead. I got hold of a few, and used to carry a pair as spares.

I found the same myself attempted to drill and easy out but just wouldn't come so fitted 2 new arms with high tensile adjusters hopefully they will last.

Bit of a strange one but i struggled to get the brake ass. Back together.

When fitting the top plate on the back and trying to get the pads together around the disc and bolt into that plastic bearing thing I couldn't get it lined up.

In the end I removed the spacer  behind the bearing and it went together straight away?

[YOMAMMIESJAMMIES]

So I have original 5B, a Rovan 5B and two FG Marders.

I'm selling the Bajas.

 

The Marder is so simple.

What more do you need? 

Not too heavy, fast as f*ck, and so durable.

 

Parts are still available.

 

You don't need to upgrade anything to have a blast every weekend.

 

Keep it simple.

 

[Jray2955]

Well I now own a Baja, a 5T and a Marder!!

I got into this 5th scale hard lol

Marder is OK but struggling to find any suspension upgrades I've rebuilt front and rear and fitted balloon springs in the rear but it's still absolutely atrocious for anything other than smooth grass

[Nitroholic]

Yes... It will be. It's a Marder. That's just how they are.

 

I got my old one to handle fairly OK using shocks off an MCD RR Evo3, as they were far better units all round. but you still have a limited suspension travel issue. That's limited by the design. If you are having stability problems, you can get wider hubs/extended wheel squares ( or at least, you could ) which give you a wider stance. Compare it to the Baja, and you will see.  But, even then, I ran my Baja with extended hubs to give a better turn. The spikey Marder tyres can also promote grip roll. The trick used to be to shave some of the edge spikes back. I went one step further and binned the FG wheel squares and converted to HPI BAja 24mm hexes. You can get a kit for it. Would mean all your wheels and tyres would be interchangeable too.

 

https://rc-car-online.de/en/products/y0521-y0521-madmax-hpi-rim-to-fg-car-wheel-adaptor.html

 

 

Not cheap, as that's only for a pair....and if you want front and rear, you are going to need two pairs. It probably gives you a bit of extra width too. Just check you have 8mm diameter axles.

 

[YOMAMMIESJAMMIES]

The hub conversion is a must. You have better selection of tires.

 

I'm ready to spring for the brp wheels and tires.

Expensive, but ultimate.

 

Get the lower arms alloy and the lauterbacher shock kit with soft springs.

 

 

[Jray2955]

On 25/10/2023 at 18:43, Nitroholic said:

Yes... It will be. It's a Marder. That's just how they are.

 

I got my old one to handle fairly OK using shocks off an MCD RR Evo3, as they were far better units all round. but you still have a limited suspension travel issue. That's limited by the design. If you are having stability problems, you can get wider hubs/extended wheel squares ( or at least, you could ) which give you a wider stance. Compare it to the Baja, and you will see.  But, even then, I ran my Baja with extended hubs to give a better turn. The spikey Marder tyres can also promote grip roll. The trick used to be to shave some of the edge spikes back. I went one step further and binned the FG wheel squares and converted to HPI BAja 24mm hexes. You can get a kit for it. Would mean all your wheels and tyres would be interchangeable too.

 

https://rc-car-online.de/en/products/y0521-y0521-madmax-hpi-rim-to-fg-car-wheel-adaptor.html

 

 

Not cheap, as that's only for a pair....and if you want front and rear, you are going to need two pairs. It probably gives you a bit of extra width too. Just check you have 8mm diameter axles.

 

If its just fairly smooth grass the Marder out turns the Baja in most situations it handles flatter and doesn't have all the tail happy dramatics although it's still running a stock can on a G260.

It's only the bumps and ruts that the Marder just gets confused and doesn't really know what it wants to do, also the Baja can be ran hard off MX style jumps and just laps it up, I wouldn't even consider the taking the Marder anywhere near the rough stuff.

But they are 2 different machines for 2 different applications.

And the Losi runs rings around both of them, in fact the Baja has had no use since getting the Losi and the Marder is only in the garage still as I love the way it looks easily the best looking rc.

[Nitroholic]

The Marder has limited suspension travel. It can't droop very far, due to the chassis plate getting in the way, and it;s limited travel the other way by simple ground clearance. Stock shocks were not very good...which is why fitting higher quality units really does help.

The Losi, of course, is 4WD for starters.

 

Baja's do like to drift and donut....and witht he right tyres, it;s a lot of fun. It can also be a PITA if you DON'T want to be going sideways.

 

I sold on most of my largescale stuff a while back, but I did keep one Baja. It;s shortened, widened, and runs FG Monster wheels/tyres. I cut it down to FG length, and fited an FG Jeep shell. It's a lot of fun to mess about with.

[YOMAMMIESJAMMIES]

Here's a couple pics of the Marders - 

[YOMAMMIESJAMMIES]

Here's some pictures of one of my Rovan s