Mtroniks viper marine 20 problems please help

[Vintagetamiyatony]

Hi, I'm attempting to relive my youth and have purchased a couple of 80's tamiyas. I'm having issues with speed controllers- I have tried a etronics probe esc, 2 faulty so far but have one reliable one- I took one back today and the guy in antics Bristol swapped it for an mtroniks viper marine 20.. Fitted it up with an annsman clash 18t motor. Problem is it very slow to get going ie very gentle power delivery. Has anyone else expierienced this? Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.

[lilllad83]

How about in reverse? still same slowness?

[Vintagetamiyatony]

It seems quicker in reverse so I swapped motor wires and reprogrammed, also changed transmitter direction and reprogrammed. It's almost like is too high geared but if I use my etronix probe plus it instantly wheelies like it should any other suggestions? Like I say I'm this is all abit new to me. Thanks.

[chewbacca]

Your problem is that the motor has fewer turns than the ESC can cope with. With the Marine 20 you can only really go down to a 20 turn can. Even if you get it running well, your 18t can will end up frying the speedo. (I speak from bitter experience)

[chewbacca]

I would recommend the Trident XT12 ESC from MSUK. It can easily handle your Ansmann 18t can and is also LiPo compatible. 

[Vintagetamiyatony]

Thanks for your input guys- I will try a standard motor later this evening and compare. The guy in antics says that the viper 20 relates to the maximum the motor should draw is 20amps as where my etronics is rated down to 15t I believe. He went on to say that my annsman 18t can would only draw around 12amps so I'm well within its operating range. Any of you have a better opinion on amp/turn rating?

[NuttyProfessor]

Hes an idiot if he works in a hobby store and has given you that info frankly.

Brushed escs are rated a lot higher than 20 amps, all Mtroniks escs are rated in turns normally so id stick the standard motor in there as long as its over 20 turns.

Edited October 26, 2013 by NuttyProfessor

[lilllad83]

I've found with most escs if there's a number in there with no a for amps following then it relates to the turns it can handle, probably not so with all escs but all iv encountered so far are like this

[chewbacca]

Sorry to say this but Antics bloke is wrong right. The number doesn't refer to the turn limit on the motor.

Edited October 29, 2013 by chewbacca

[PraetoR]

+1 to above comments. I'm a diehard Mtroniks fanboy and all the Mtroniks escs I've used have had the turn limit in the name. Take it back for a refund and get a more powerful esc

Edited October 26, 2013 by Praet0r87

[Vintagetamiyatony]

Update.. I've now fitted the original tamiya motor which is a known good unit and would lift the front wheels with the mechanical speed controller... It is marginally better but is still slow on take off. I have looked closer at the instructions for the mtroniks viper marine 20 and the guy is correct- it is a 20amp current limit but they're rc car range is rated in motor turns. I'm leading myself to believe that the power delivery must be set up for a smoother pull away due to it being a marine ESC?? Last week I had the etronics probe plus fitted to the same car with an 19t old looking motor with an American dollar note sticker on it and it was uncontrollable- it would literally flip itself so I have no reason to believe this is transmitter/receiver/ battery or gearing issues. Thanks for your input guys very much appreciated.

[BigBadJFly]

My brother got one of these escs after breaking the stock tamiya one, and I've noticed that the acceleration is more gradual as well. I didnt see any comments in the reviews on ms about this tho.

EDIT: I dont think his was a marine one, just the modelsport rebranded normal one

Edited October 26, 2013 by BigBadJFly

[PraetoR]

That sounds like the Team Checkpoint Money motor- 19t. That was arguably the best 19t brushed motor ever! Always wanted one.

 

You are both correct on the slow acceleration being because the esc is for marine applications. I should have realised this before, sorry about that. All Mtroniks escs are waterproof, so the "marine" ones must purely be based on power delivery.

 

What you want is something like this:

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/modelsport-uk-sniper-rv-12/rc-car-products/31550

Edited October 26, 2013 by Praet0r87

[Vintagetamiyatony]

I agree on the gradual acceleration - just sent it up the road in the dark and top speed looks normal it's just lacking the initial bite- yes it is a team checkpoint motor. It's now fitted into my hornet with a probe plus and goes very well. It performs very well. Nice to hear its a good motor! So looks like the marine 20 is going back to antics Bristol and the miserable, rude and very unhelpful staff will have to refund me for the 3rd time !

[PraetoR]

Get that modelsport esc, it's made by Mtroninks anyway, has a 12t limit, is fully waterproof and is cheap as chips!

[Vintagetamiyatony]

Is this the one? eBay item number 251351146562 ?

[PraetoR]

Is this the one? eBay item number 251351146562 ?

I was actually referring to this one

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/modelsport-uk-sniper-rv-12/rc-car-products/31550

which is ever so slightly cheaper.

 

They'll both perform identically, have as near as dammit the same specifications, but the one you posted is 10g lighter and is lipo compatible. So it is probably SLIGHTLY the better esc.

[tonysmini]

They are good, the rv12 has better brakes but gradual reverse to 50%, pretty much like your marine ESC, the RV12 Assault has instant full power reverse as soon as the brakes lock, in most cases it will reverse as soon as you start to skid.

Being waterproof is the best thing with them, but watch the switches, they ARE NOT waterproof and will die pretty quick if you go wading.

Another one to look for are the LRP runner series. Very small but again waterproof and you just switch on, squeeze the throttle forwards and back to program it and it's ready to go.

I've never liked Probe ESC's, had four or five die on me and gave up with them after that.

Edited October 27, 2013 by tonysmini

[tonysmini]

For a Vintage Tamiya, you can't beat a Tamiya ESC and a Sport Tuned 'black can' motor.

Powerful enough to liven up your cars, but forgiving enough not to shred the thing to bits every time you run it.

The Tamiya ESC's have the best throttle profiles going, nice and smooth and I over the double tap reverse. (Back once for brakes, release then back again for reverse) add a Lipo buzzer if you are running them and it's ready. They are not waterproof, but I put mine inside a balloon and seal it with a rubber band if I think they are getting wet. Just make sure you don't over heat it.

The Sport Tuned motors are a quicker, torquier version of the stock silver cans, and much better quality than the Ansmann Clash cans.

Another top tip for a vintage Tamiya, replace the nylon and brass bushes with a rubber sealed bearing set from www.rcbearings.co.uk and if your motor pinion is the stock Tamiya aluminium one, get rid of it and pick up a steel one from Modelsport. The ally ones teeth wear to hooks really quickly and will then chew the spur gear it runs on to pieces.

Tony

[chewbacca]

I'm running this in my DT-02 chassis:

 

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/modelsport-uk-trident-xt-12/rc-car-products/374109

 

Waterproof, LiPo friendly, triple profile and lots of torque. Tis a cracking ESC. 

[tonysmini]

I've not tried these yet Chewie, but the double rap reverse sounds good.

[PraetoR]

They are good, the rv12 has better brakes but gradual reverse to 50%, pretty much like your marine ESC, the RV12 Assault has instant full power reverse as soon as the brakes lock, in most cases it will reverse as soon as you start to skid.

Another one to look for are the LRP runner series. Very small but again waterproof and you just switch on, squeeze the throttle forwards and back to program it and it's ready to go.

 

The reverse is programmable, so you can have instant reverse as well. Although the reverse itself is still weak. Doesn't bother me though, it's all about forward!

 

I like LRP runner's but I've found where the triple receiver wire is mounted is a weak spot and can fail.

[chewbacca]

I've not tried these yet Chewie, but the double rap reverse sounds good.

I can't recommend them highly enough tbh. Am trying to talk myself out of buying another one lol

[XV Pilot]

Wish I had spotted this thread earlier!

Having recently developed an interest in RC boats, I was surprised to find that the standard way of labelling ESCs is different in the boating world. We are used to car ESCs being rated according to turns, but boaters prefer amps.

Whereas with cars, the standard size brushed motor is a 540, model boaters use a wide variety of different can sizes in their models. Therefore, marine ESCs are labelled according to max current rather than motor turns, making it easier to match the ESC to your particular motor size and type. A Marine 20 would indeed be rated for 20 amps.

Strange but true!

(And yes, many marine ESCs and aircraft ESCs have a "soft start" feature which gradually spools up the motor, reducing stress on the prop and couplings. Thus a marine ESC is usually a poor choice for car use.)

[chewbacca]

I bow to thee Mr Pilot. You are the voice of reason. 

 

I've come to the conclusion that the Marine 15 I've put in Carnage is the reason the 21t can is unable to move it in the manner to which I've become accustomed. Will try it tomorrow with a 27t can. 

 

Suddenly so much makes sense.