Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, champ222 said: @Rebel158 Any update from DMS about the esc? Actually yes, I was going to post later on. Unfortunately a rather unexpected and disappointing update I'm afraid. I spoke with DMS earlier today via email and it transpires that LC Racing decided to alter the esc spec back in 2019, that is to say they downgraded it from the advertised 60a to the 35a standard version. This then makes the 'pro' kit for me essentially a very slightly improved (a few additional components, such as the carbon top deck), but rather overpriced version of the standard truggy at £205. I did ask if they would honour the advertised spec and send me the equivalent HobbyWing esc (Ezrun Max10) and they declined, or rather pointed me to the explanation provided by LC Racing. I understand, I wouldn't want to take the hit for an issue created by my supplier, but that's what was advertised. I find it a little odd also that if the spec changed that far back that no other customers have raised this with DMS, and the website wasn't updated sooner. I have requested a full refund whilst I decide what to do in terms of another car (Kit or RTR) Pity really, I was quite looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex97 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 56 minutes ago, Rebel158 said: Actually yes, I was going to post later on. Unfortunately a rather unexpected and disappointing update I'm afraid. I spoke with DMS earlier today via email and it transpires that LC Racing decided to alter the esc spec back in 2019, that is to say they downgraded it from the advertised 60a to the 35a standard version. This then makes the 'pro' kit for me essentially a very slightly improved (a few additional components, such as the carbon top deck), but rather overpriced version of the standard truggy at £205. I did ask if they would honour the advertised spec and send me the equivalent HobbyWing esc (Ezrun Max10) and they declined, or rather pointed me to the explanation provided by LC Racing. I understand, I wouldn't want to take the hit for an issue created by my supplier, but that's what was advertised. I find it a little odd also that if the spec changed that far back that no other customers have raised this with DMS, and the website wasn't updated sooner. I have requested a full refund whilst I decide what to do in terms of another car (Kit or RTR) Pity really, I was quite looking forward to it. Oh that's a shame that they wouldn't honour it, are you planning on buying another and then put everything together yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Alex97 said: Oh that's a shame that they wouldn't honour it, are you planning on buying another and then put everything together yourself? Possibly, although DMS are out of stock on most of their kits, and buying the base truggy kit (also out of stock) becomes a bit of a chore when sourcing a motor. The truggy is supposed to be matched with the 2850 sized motor, but DMS only appear to offer the shorter 2840 version as a seperate purchase. DMS haven't replied to my request for a refund yet, so I'll wait to see what they come back with. I think a fair outcome would be to swap the bundled 35a esc for the 60a version as advertised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 34 minutes ago, Alex97 said: Oh that's a shame that they wouldn't honour it, are you planning on buying another and then put everything together yourself? They only have the kits in stock that come with the esc and the motor. the price difference between the kits with motor and the kits without (that they have no stock of) varies by model: EMB-1H buggy, standard £120 -- with motor & ESC £185 -- £65 difference EMB-1 Truggy, standard £135 -- with motor & ESC £205 -- £70 difference LC12-B1 buggy, standard £145 -- with motor & ESC£190 --£45 difference the £45 increase seems fair for a motor and esc that they must get for peanuts. at £70, it needs to come with the bigger esc for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, champ222 said: They only have the kits in stock that come with the esc and the motor. the price difference between the kits with motor and the kits without (that they have no stock of) varies by model: EMB-1H buggy, standard £120 -- with motor & ESC £185 -- £65 difference EMB-1 Truggy, standard £135 -- with motor & ESC £205 -- £70 difference LC12-B1 buggy, standard £145 -- with motor & ESC£190 --£45 difference the £45 increase seems fair for a motor and esc that they must get for peanuts. at £70, it needs to come with the bigger esc for sure Thanks for the comparison champ, pretty much my thoughts. The pro kit at £205 does have a few hopups/inclusions, but nothing in my limited opinion that would warrant that price increase. I may be wrong/confused with what I heard, but the chap I met at my local park a couple of weeks back told me that he bought his kit from DMS, and that it has the 60a esc, and that he paid £165 for it as a kit (I may be mistaken, he may have pruchased the 60a esc separately) That said, even without the 60a esc, there is no kit at £165. He told me that he purchased it as a lockdown project, so presumably sometime between the original March 2020 lockdown and prior to our meeting. I'm not making any accusations here, but it appears that there may have been a price increase, and a drop in specification. What confuses me more is that no other DMS customers appear to have queried the drop in esc spec otherwise Darren would have mentioned this during our conversations, and I did ask specifically about the esc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 its possible there has been a price increase, or maybe the guy was talking nonsense, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, champ222 said: its possible there has been a price increase, or maybe the guy was talking nonsense, who knows. Entirely possible. I'll look out for him on my travels and quiz him further, for peace of mind. I would also like to give DMS the benefit of the doubt, and I have no interest in attacking a small business. I neglected to ask if he frequents this forum. His name was Fraser (or Frazer) and we met in Queens Park 2 or 3 weeks back... Do we have a Frazer/Fraser amongst us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Oh indeed, ive dealt with DMS in the past with no issues. Not there fault if LC have changed the spec. they should update the website though, and maybe the prices. wherever you look, the LC racing specs are a bit all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Indeed, and both the website and FB page (LC Racing) are a bit vague and out of date. It is a pity, and sadly I seem to attract these issues, despite my best endeavours and thorough research! For me £205 is a little steep for what's on offer, I think the 60a esc should be included at that price point. Let's see what DMS come back with. Worst case scenario, I get a refund, rethink things, and it's only cost me half hours drive each way and some fuel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex97 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 You can use a smaller motor with the Truggy, I ran a 5900kv 2845 racestar motor. They are about £10 from bangood and personally I rated it. https://m.banggood.com/Racerstar-2845-Motor-Brushless-Waterproof-Sensorless-5900-or-4370-or-3930-or-2800KV-1-or-12-1-or-14-RC-Car-Part-p-1112738.html?rmmds=orderdetail Shipped it was under £12 and arrived within a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ag100 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rebel158 said: Indeed, and both the website and FB page (LC Racing) are a bit vague and out of date. It is a pity, and sadly I seem to attract these issues, despite my best endeavours and thorough research! For me £205 is a little steep for what's on offer, I think the 60a esc should be included at that price point. Let's see what DMS come back with. Worst case scenario, I get a refund, rethink things, and it's only cost me half hours drive each way and some fuel... I purchased mine from DMS Lsat year in April, it was the EMB1 H Pro kit, it came with a Tenshock 4850 motor, 35amp ESC and Batan d115f servo, it didn’t have any carbon upgrades (I bought these separately). These are £184 now, and come with the 6150 motor, so in this case it’s cheaper and a slightly better spec now, but they do seem to be all over the place in terms of extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) I've recieved a reply from DMS, and would be grateful of your thoughts. To be clear, I'm not attempting to discredit DMS in anyway. I'm relatively new to this and my intentions are genuine i.e. expecting what was advertised essentially, and it is also my understanding that the higher amperage would assist with future upgrades, and off road 'oomph'... Does this seem reasonable? Another option might be to opt for the prebuilt kit at £165 and then purchase thre esc separately if required... Not sure why the 60 amp would sway you towards this vehicle or indeed away from it with its absence, since as a comparison, it would be like saying a road car comes with a long range 550 mile fuel tank but in fact is only supplied with a long range 525 mile fuel tank, the difference is not negligible between the two. On average the micro trucks pull approx 15 amps under load, so 35 is more than adequate for the task and even with the fastest of option motors installed at a late date, current draw only ever peaks at around 20/25 amps max, so 35amps is more than enough for every occasion, 60 would simply be overkill, which is most likely why LC have taken the decision to change what they supply. This has allowed them to be able to add the carbon fibre top deck, (which was normally an optional extra) into the kits with no price change, I know for sure which I would prefer from those two choices….. I am not certain that I agree with the “value for money comment” since as I mentioned in my email last night, the previous £57.99 esc was replaced by the newer unit at £46,.99 but the carbon fibre top deck was added with a value of £17.49, so the value for money actually increased with this specification change. Edited March 1, 2021 by Rebel158 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I guess he might have a point. To be honest, i'd rather just buy it for less without one. i didnt know they now came with a carbon top deck, i doubt this makes any real difference. While the difference between 35A and 60A may make little or no difference for a small car, it is the only way they can justify the £70 price increase over the standard kit. the basic hobbywing 30A ESC (which by his own information, would be absolutely fine, is just over £22: https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-quicrun-wp-16bl30-bl-esc/rc-car-products/382830 The basic 60A is just over £32: https://www.modelsport.co.uk/hobbywing-quicrun-10bl60-sensored-bl-esc/rc-car-products/382832 The illusive 60A esc "may" be based on the max 10, which costs £52 ish, but ive not seen anything to suggest it is. Servicable motors can be had on hobbyking website, such as: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-xk2445-4700kv-brushless-inrunner.html?queryID=2e2e30e26441176308a5c8b3c9604053&objectID=40560&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products_hbk_price_stock_1_group_0_asc or https://hobbyking.com/en_us/trackstar-380-sensorless-brushless-motor-4400kv.html?queryID=f02c7fd06cf145f394b14e907966bfc4&objectID=47324&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products_hbk_price_stock_1_group_0_asc They will have cheap escs no doubt too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Thanks Champ, and yes I believe that the esc was based on the Ezrun Max10 (they look identical in the catalogue pics at any rate) That may be an option then, purchase the base truggy kit and add my own bits from there. Ideally I did want to build a kit. I'll give it some further thought. I'd have to wait though as they're currently out of stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 For me at least, deliberating over the choice of which motor and esc to choose while weighing up performance, size, resale factor (proper branded products rather than oem products such as LC products are usually better here) is all part of the fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 I dont think the next order will happen soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, champ222 said: I dont think the next order will happen soon. Probably not, what with the Chinese New Year and increasing customs backlog... Probably best to get a refund and review... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Ag100 said: I purchased mine from DMS Lsat year in April, it was the EMB1 H Pro kit, it came with a Tenshock 4850 motor, 35amp ESC and Batan d115f servo, it didn’t have any carbon upgrades (I bought these separately). These are £184 now, and come with the 6150 motor, so in this case it’s cheaper and a slightly better spec now, but they do seem to be all over the place in terms of extras. How much did you pay in April last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 minute ago, champ222 said: How much did you pay in April last year? I think the ones priced £180+ on the DMS website are RTR (includes esc, motor, radio gear, servo and a lipo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ag100 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, champ222 said: How much did you pay in April last year? Sorry £199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ag100 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Rebel158 said: I think the ones priced £180+ on the DMS website are RTR (includes esc, motor, radio gear, servo and a lipo) No, these are kits, but with the electrics (ie, Motor, servo and esc), you have to build them and supply radio and battery https://www.dms-racing.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=39820&virtuemart_category_id=470 Edited March 1, 2021 by Ag100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 ahh, a bit cheaper now then... how has it been over the last year? I'm tempted by the LC12B1 the longer wheel base will help with speed etc, and a truggy conversion would be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ag100 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, champ222 said: ahh, a bit cheaper now then... how has it been over the last year? I'm tempted by the LC12B1 the longer wheel base will help with speed etc, and a truggy conversion would be easy. It’s been great, very quick and handles well, only issue has been that I burned out one motor, was running it in long grass, and didn’t let it cool between runs, otherwise great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel158 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, champ222 said: ahh, a bit cheaper now then... how has it been over the last year? I'm tempted by the LC12B1 the longer wheel base will help with speed etc, and a truggy conversion would be easy. Not far off the size and weight of the 1/14 truggy, and mid motor too... Hmmm... Why is this cheaper though, they see almostr like for like in spec? Only issue I can see is the open gearbox design and grit getting in. I think... Edited March 1, 2021 by Rebel158 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ222 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 The EMB truggy, short course, touring etc all use a longer chassis, putting the wheelbase only 5mm shorter than the LC12B1. only the EMB buggy and monster truck have the shorter chassis. That makes sense though. There isnt much chatter about the LC12 though, perhaps the micro phase had worn off before they released it. Phat bodies make a truggy shell that should fit, and im sure the EMB truggy shell would too. the Truggy wheels are cheap enough, presumably 10th scale buggy tyres fit them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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