Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Everyday you'll see things "bigged up" or recommended on forums along with "great advice or information". Phrases like well proven, best available, reliable or "I've got one, it's ace" are always being thrown about. Well proven to me has to have some sort of measure against it, tuned engines for example i.e race winning/finishing reliability rather than ragging the arris off it round a field - granted if there were 2 similar cars doing this then you'd be able to get some sort of comparison. I'm no expert on large scale cars but I've raced largscale for 10 years or so, on road and off road so I'd like to think there is some knowledge there that I can pass on. There are people on forums that do know what they're talking about and others that mean well but are just passing on information they've read elsewhere, that may well be lost in translation too and then there are muppets who know bugger all, will tell you everything and have never seen a decent car. So my questions are.... How would you know if someone knows what they're talking about How would you know if "product" are really good unless they've been well tested and what would you consider well tested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well that's it who does do a good fair review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcoforever Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 i look at the number of people using a product, usually a good indicator but my best friend is google, take the OBR engine i have ordered yes i was given advice leaning towards it however i used google and founds loads and loads of reviews, mainly from the USA that were all positive i then tied this in with speaking to people who have actually owned it. with regards to knowing if people are genuinely knowledgeable you have to trust your gut imho. well tested for me is real world so people actually using them, not manufacturers and youtube is a fantastic tool for this to gauge actual performance to the written performance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toys4x4boys Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 So my questions are.... How would you know if someone knows what they're talking about How would you know if "product" are really good unless they've been well tested and what would you consider well tested. You don't, unless you take the time to then research the poster, by looking up old threads. You don't, don't take one mans word for it, specially not the maker or retailer. Too much matey back slapping, to much sucking up to manufacturers, thankfully there isn't as much of that on here, it tends to just be deluded kids repeating to get their post counts up. But it's just the way forums go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzzy12 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I usually look on the http://www.hpibajaforum.com You get so many reviews and somebody always has the thing your thinking about buying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark7616 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Or if you dont like listening to bashers on forums buy it and test it yourself. Take your engines for example something good for "the track" is not necisarily good for bashing and visa versa. If you like the look of a product and dont want to listen to the opinions of people that "only drive round fields" then buy it and test it for yourself. I dont always buy products based on others experiance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baorevo Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 taking advice isnt the wrong thing , using it without research is .....advice is not a review nor is it an order to do something. Some give out willy nilly comments this is true but the end off the day you should take advice for what it is most of the time and that is an opinion. forums are forums and each and everybody is free to comment on whatever they feel and say whatever they feel and to be honest if someone said "ive got one its ace" to me id be thinking before i took heed of the comment. Google is your friend and so is youtube you can get some great footage of most of the engines etc on the market from both these sources. Perso ive never bought something because "its ace" lol Even my obr i bought after a long search and wait. when i was a nitro monster freak lol i would purchase after searching and reading and some can vouch for the fact i had some very unique outstanding nitro's none of wich would of been what they where if i didnt do a lot of searching.... for one project that i sold on this forum it took me 1 month of research and reading then another couple of weeks to source the engine. my point is ask on the forums for advice then do your homework, a lot of things i wouldnt of known existed if it werent for forums. you cant really blame the adviser....advice is only usefull if you do something usefull with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Basher Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 If you've been here a while it becomes easy to spot the users worth listening too I'm on a few different forums some I've been on for 5/6 years but this is the only forum I've had to make full use of the ignore function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Or if you dont like listening to bashers on forums buy it and test it yourself. Take your engines for example something good for "the track" is not necisarily good for bashing and visa versa. If you like the look of a product and dont want to listen to the opinions of people that "only drive round fields" then buy it and test it for yourself. I dont always buy products based on others experiance. This isn't a racer v basher thing. You make a very good point re what suits one may not do for the other but surely rather than just watching on youtube or asking the question, you'd like to see some sort of comparison? There can be fluke engines like an old 23cc zenoah engine i had in my first marder (in the days before we were allowed to use 26cc), down the straight there was nothing to touch it - I couldn't drive worth a toss at the time so I didn't win. Vast sales numbers don't make a great product - just look at the Austin motego & maestro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderwolf Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 i'm basicly just going to echo the above posts realy. people to listen to, well that comes down to how well you know them, you learn which ones that know their stuff and ones that tend to repeat it and the like. i do ask for help now and then, but never realy buy anything without finding out about it first (few times are an exception, some not bad, one or 2 a total disaster but you don't learn without mistakes) testing things is somthing i tend to disagree with on many time with people. you got manufactuers out there that think test this with tools (a drill for examble) is good grounds to say its tested, this isn't true imo in the world of 1:1 good testing comes from racing, because parts are taking to the limit constantly and are going above the use most road drivers will never do. this imo doesn't work with rc, racers are there to race, in many cases not finishing a race tends to hurt your chances of winning, my idea of real testing is give the part to afew bashers, watch them jump it stupid high and fast without any regard for the result, just because a rear wing does well in racing and survives afew rolls in a corner doesn't been it will take the roll of a full speed ramp fail. lets face it if you got a part that can take a 50ft jump landing flat on the nose chances of breaking it from planting it on a landing ramp in the moddle of the A final is unlikly at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark7616 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 but thats where knowledge comes into play of course a 23cc will fly down a straight it will rev higher. If I want a torque tuned motor I will buy a 30.5 if I want pure flat out speed I would look into something like a 27.2 for instance. I do see where your coming from people have not tried other engines and for that reason they go on "hear say" I have only used TS and OBR so would only recommend those I know people who have had great success with ESP. The engines are based at the baja and now losi market. The tuners are directly on the forums helping where they can. Ian and co are not generally on the forums and go buy people recommending them and its only racers that use him,. he does not do bashing engines unless someone buys an old used one to chuck in a marder or something. There are alot of people giving out information based on hearsay and not personal experiance its not a bad thing but in not the best either. 1/5 seems to be getting more and more popular and with that comes people who just want them because there big and make 100 different threads about what to do next, then in someone elses thread will just post someone elses answer as theres in the next noobs thread its the nature of the beast. Personally I just like to do my own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Garf Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 i did post something one hear but internet was paling up 1 i would talk to people who has been in the hobby for numbers of years also i go to a few racing meeting but i dont race and talk to people there to find out the good and bad points if all fails i would send engine tuners a email ask what they would recommend but i normally find some good advice of hear or Google and YouTube 2 like other people said you dont really know until you have had one any one could say they are good because they have one i am new to 1/5 so i do alot of looking up on the product fist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 but thats where knowledge comes into play of course a 23cc will fly down a straight it will rev higher. If I want a torque tuned motor I will buy a 30.5 if I want pure flat out speed I would look into something like a 27.2 for instance. I do see where your coming from people have not tried other engines and for that reason they go on "hear say" I have only used TS and OBR so would only recommend those I know people who have had great success with ESP. The engines are based at the baja and now losi market. The tuners are directly on the forums helping where they can. Ian and co are not generally on the forums and go buy people recommending them and its only racers that use him,. he does not do bashing engines unless someone buys an old used one to chuck in a marder or something. There are alot of people giving out information based on hearsay and not personal experiance its not a bad thing but in not the best either. 1/5 seems to be getting more and more popular and with that comes people who just want them because there big and make 100 different threads about what to do next, then in someone elses thread will just post someone elses answer as theres in the next noobs thread its the nature of the beast. Personally I just like to do my own thing. Everyone had 23cc engines. You're very wrong about "Ian & co" not doing basher engines - they're a massive part of tuners buisness. G4z, TPS, Oddified, IPS, CAD, MF Tuning, Lissau, hobbycentre-france and abbate are all well known race engine tuners that do basher engines. I've asked onb to tune a race legal engine and they couldn't do what I wanted - I've seen the BZM thing that MMR sell, the castings look as rough as hell and it didn't impress when it was in the car either. For engine, unless you've tried them, you can't say how good they are. Unless you know what the end user is doing with then you can't reccomend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcoforever Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 why do i get the impression this topic has come about by my choice to purchase an OBR engine? i went with the suggestions not just because they are people i listen to, which they are but because my research in general confirmed what i was being told if an individual were to just buy what they were told then we truly would be living in a world of stupidity i use the forum as a guideline only and use my own research to support or avoid a suggestion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark7616 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Everyone had 23cc engines. You're very wrong about "Ian & co" not doing basher engines - they're a massive part of tuners buisness. G4z, TPS, Oddified, IPS, CAD, MF Tuning, Lissau, hobbycentre-france and abbate are all well known race engine tuners that do basher engines. I've asked onb to tune a race legal engine and they couldn't do what I wanted - I've seen the BZM thing that MMR sell, the castings look as rough as hell and it didn't impress when it was in the car either. All the people above can do basher engine but do not promote them do they, I am a member here, b.f.u.k and hpi baja forum and not one of the tuners above promote there engines to our market the only companies that do are OBR, MMR with both the Pro mx and BZM, ESP, TS reed, ESP, and the likes of yamadude and other tuners out there. All the race tuners go on word of mouth its comparing 2 different sides of the hobby people will use a RB .21 nitro engine for racing but its pony for bashing lots of better motors out there. Same goes for the likes of oddy I have seen one of his red head 26cc engines in a baja waste of time no top end and to much torque. Where is he on the dedicated forums for 1/5 bashers saying hey use one of my engines etc etc he isnt and niether is any of the other "race" tuners. Every year we get a "racer" on here saying how great there racing engines are and how great they are for bashing if they were as great as you think we would all be running them. You are more than welcome to come and see and have a go of my baja with my OBR engine thats how we all learn, but the same as you telling people to run the porters you have used we have all used the ones you have not remeber that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 All the people above can do basher engine but do not promote them do they, I am a member here, b.f.u.k and hpi baja forum and not one of the tuners above promote there engines to our market the only companies that do are OBR, MMR with both the Pro mx and BZM, ESP, TS reed, ESP, and the likes of yamadude and other tuners out there. All the race tuners go on word of mouth its comparing 2 different sides of the hobby people will use a RB .21 nitro engine for racing but its pony for bashing lots of better motors out there. Same goes for the likes of oddy I have seen one of his red head 26cc engines in a baja waste of time no top end and to much torque. Where is he on the dedicated forums for 1/5 bashers saying hey use one of my engines etc etc he isnt and niether is any of the other "race" tuners. Every year we get a "racer" on here saying how great there racing engines are and how great they are for bashing if they were as great as you think we would all be running them. You are more than welcome to come and see and have a go of my baja with my OBR engine thats how we all learn, but the same as you telling people to run the porters you have used we have all used the ones you have not remeber that. For a start, I've never told anyone to use a particular tuner and if you look at my posts you'll see that I don't/very rarley get involved with engine questions. As for engine tuners on "dedicated basher forums", I doubt they'd come on them as there are so many experts that know it all better. Regarding the red top in a baja - perhaps someone with your knowlege might have though the gearing may have been incorrect rather than point the finger at the engine straight away. The simple fact is that 99% of development is from racing (with the big 6 or 7 companies anyway) At the end of the day, people should be wary of advice given unless it's from a reliable source. If you're buying "products" then get to know people who've got them and are/have used them in the same conditions you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitroholic Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 To be honest...this thread was doomed from the outset.... I know what you are trying to say, but there is no real answer as to how you judge someone's 'ability' to judge a product. I've run a selection of engines, stock, tuned and what have you. I ran an Oddified motor in my MCD, and it was smooth, powerful and all round a very nice piece of kit.....but it was also an EXPENSIVE piece of kit, and was really wasted with the use I was putting it to. When I was looking to upgrade my Baja after the big end went sloppy, I used the evidence of my own eyes and ears. Mark was running an OBR headkit in his Baja, and it went well enough, was plenty fast enough, and since the price of the OBR headkit was within budget..I bought one. Now...for me...Mark invests a lot of cash in his Baja and tends to buy kit which is either top end, or well thought of generally. He is also what marketers call an 'early adopter' .... and will buy stuff when it comes out. Some of the stuff has been less good than the hype made it....and some has been as good. He runs it, runs it hard, and doesn;t pull his punches when asked if it's any good. That kind of opinion you can trust. The ones to watch out for are the ones who buy the shiniest and most expensive gear and then praise it without running it hard.Or worse still...praise it without ever owning it, running it or seeing it run. And as far as the 'red head in a Baja goes....I owned a red-head motor....and I owned a Baja....an no....I didn't mix the two. It was way too much engine. The Baja hasn't the grip or handling to use it. Would just become like those hateful DanA vids of a Monster Beetle with an 8Hp motor wheelieing endless round a field every time the motor hit the power. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 I kind of had a feeling that this thread would turn out this way too but I've got broad shoulders. I have nothing against bashing or bashers, it's not what I choose to do anymore, I got very bored very quick of running flat out over football fields or picking my way through a quarry to find decent jumps. I'm certain that racing isn't to everyones taste - although those who haven't tried it needn't bother commenting. The fact is that there are lots of people who don't have half a clue what they're on about and it's those people that should be avoided. Loud bling big fancy pipes or engines isn't always best, I'd always suggest reliablity over bling and I'd also suggest that people learned to use what they have first before upgrading anything. Good set up and maintenance is the best way to go in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark7616 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I agree with you whole heartedly that people need to learn what product does what and not i need that because so a so has it. i dont knock racing i want to race 1/5 myself and then i would use a proven race engine. basicaaly i will make the point more blatently that you were trying to make attention all noobs stop recommending priducts you dont have the first idea about lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINKIN2 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Why is this topic centering around engine choices? Should we not broaden the discussion to the general acceptance of advice? Personally I would rather take the advice of someone who not only can give advice on a part, but has personal experience with their alternatives too and can offer fair advice between the pro's and cons of each. I will also be happy to take 2nd hand advice from members who may not have the the experience from an item in question. Okay I would be more inclined to take their help and build my own views up on further information from other sources too, not out of any disrespect to them but for piece of mind. I might even (and have on occasion) learn something new from them too, so can payoff to not dismiss their views Now I do agree that there can be fair a mount of parroting on the boards at times, some times we do not realise that we are doing it or expect everyone to have that certain level of understanding? Maybe it's for other reasons who knows? If anything does come out of this topic don't let it be just about engine choices, let it be an awareness for giving fair and un-biased advice then allowing others to build their own opinions and respect their experiences. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 I agree with you whole heartedly that people need to learn what product does what and not i need that because so a so has it. i dont knock racing i want to race 1/5 myself and then i would use a proven race engine. basicaaly i will make the point more blatently that you were trying to make attention all noobs stop recommending priducts you dont have the first idea about lol This sort of covers it I guess As for the racing side of life, what/where/when are you thinking of? There have only been 2 guys have gone well with standard-ish bajas and another who totally redesigned and made all new bits for it so it worked. You'll never get away from people who think that shinny, loud and big is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1970 Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Why is this topic centering around engine choices? Should we not broaden the discussion to the general acceptance of advice? Personally I would rather take the advice of someone who not only can give advice on a part, but has personal experience with their alternatives too and can offer fair advice between the pro's and cons of each. I will also be happy to take 2nd hand advice from members who may not have the the experience from an item in question. Okay I would be more inclined to take their help and build my own views up on further information from other sources too, not out of any disrespect to them but for piece of mind. I might even (and have on occasion) learn something new from them too, so can payoff to not dismiss their views Now I do agree that there can be fair a mount of parroting on the boards at times, some times we do not realise that we are doing it or expect everyone to have that certain level of understanding? Maybe it's for other reasons who knows? If anything does come out of this topic don't let it be just about engine choices, let it be an awareness for giving fair and un-biased advice then allowing others to build their own opinions and respect their experiences. Engines were used as an example but the thread was about advice on "products" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Garf Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I'd always suggest reliablity over bling and I'd also suggest that people learned to use what they have first before upgrading anything. Good set up and maintenance is the best way to go in my book. i think a lot of people think the same like you said if you have not tried racing you dont know the other side to the hobby my mate has done racing and he said to me its on of the best thing you can do with an rc i am a basher because i dont have the fund and i think at the minute i am more danger to others and i dont think my car is any good for racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark7616 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I was talking to Rover man about racing at nene valley, I wouldnt race my baja dude I would buy something more suited to the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINKIN2 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Engines were used as an example but the thread was about advice on "products" I know mate I was not trying to pick anyone out, but I did see the thread revolving around that theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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