Anybody running a Vader XB

[Spriggan]

New 100W soldering iron arrived today, so set too and made up the third set of charging leads with the EC5 connectors. The extra power and heat of the new iron made the job so easy, that I then remade the EC5 connectors on the cars wires as i wasn't totally happy with my First attempt, where with my usual impatience, I decided not to wait till the new soldering iron to arrive and went ahead and did the connections in the car, the Eight battery's and the first two charging sets with the small blow lamp!

The small blow lamp worked OK but I found that it was a little bit uncontrollable, The new 100W soldering iron was much better tool for the job, so I'm happy now. Just need to get out and test the new connectors durability.

[ninjagaiden]

That's great. My 100w iron is in the post too. Going to go with TRX connectors largely because I have charging cables etc and I like the way they unplug easily.

Got my ESC off the mounting plate following your help. Boy that sticky stuff they use to hold it on is strong. I was looking at the connectors and it has an extra servo socket trailing off it. Will this power an extra fan?

Been reading the redcat rampage forums in the US and those rednecks sure are doing crazy things to their cars. 2028 motors, 8s, 10s - that's ballistics not driving!

I have my MT4 tranny all programmed up now, with fixed and variable dual rates as follows:

Button 1 switches from 100% throttle to 70% throttle

Button 2 switches from 100% steering to 85% steering

Lever 1 ranges from 50% braking to 100% braking, depending on surface traction. I figure brake loading on the motor is going to put the temps up a lot.

I read about Brushless ESCs and whilst it is clear that an ESC is most efficicant at 100% output, running an ESC between 50% and 100% output with a current rating that is within capacity is not going to stress the swicthing FETs too much.

I am really hoping that with the 1717 and the stock gearing, ESC at mildest settings, and the throttle / brake dual rates, temps should not build up too much and the whole thing will be stable.

N

Edited June 19, 2012 by ninjagaiden

[Spriggan]

I was looking at the connectors and it has an extra servo socket trailing off it. Will this power an extra fan?

N

Yep, that's what my motor cooling fan is plugged into.

The odd thing is that with the new EC5 connections the cooling fans sound faster! although its probably just me hoping for better performance out of the car. Prob is I cant really give it much of a test at the mo, as I'm still a bit sore after sugary to lug the Vader out anywhere to run it. Maybe tomorrow!

[ninjagaiden]

Sprig,

Which fan have you got on your 1717?

[Spriggan]

Thats the little one I picked up, but thats really a bit too small for the 1717 motor

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300589360285?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2350wt_1039

I think the twin fan on on here is the right one for the 1717

http://204.186.93.64/BrushlessMotors-Leopard.htm MS are suppose to be getting the fans in, so i was waiting for them to arrive before buying the bigger one

[big_scot_nanny]

I wasn't sure if that extra servo socket was the right thing, but pugged it in and off it went. Nice. Single fan does seem to make a difference, but as Spriggan says not really designed for the size of the 1717 can. With all the fans, servo checks and ESC peeps, the thing sounds like a F16 prepping for takeoff!

I was out again the other day with the car with the new set up, and By the Odin's Hammer that thing is fast.

Interesting to see the setups people are using on the TXs, as at speed it really is a very delicate operation to keep it in control. It is fun though! The long back stright on the local track is tricky at full pelt.

Are folks literaly switching steering modes on the fly?

Kev

[Spriggan]

You need to add a front wing to the XB, like an F1, that would sort it! I always find the less you do on the controller when gunning it down the straight the better, once you start correcting, then over correcting, you've lost it! Good to hear someone else has their XB out on a track.

[big_scot_nanny]

We have a formal race series coming up later in the summer, should be fun to see how I really compete against the lads with their converted 5Bs. Mostly just fun runs at the moment, some timed, against petrol runners, and it is interesting how it compares.

In summary, once again, Sheeeeeeee*t this thing is fast. :-)

Kev

[big_scot_nanny]

Oh, and I should also mention that I am not a very good driver. Its almost like a form of sensory deprivation you need to race these things. I feel like Rainman.

[Spriggan]

Oh, and I should also mention that I am not a very good driver. Its almost like a form of sensory deprivation you need to race these things. I feel like Rainman.

Me too, I was always mid field with the Nitro and Petrol stuff, and quite content to be a lap or two down on the best drivers, so its not 'me' that is keeping me up with the best drivers this year, its the Vader! and everything I do to it, it just gets better and better.. What a car!

[ninjagaiden]

F16. Odin's Hammer, Rainman. These are a few of my favourite things!

The XB seems like a little known secret. A Q Car like an Audi RS6 or a supercharged series 1 Lotus Elise. Something the mainstream nitro / gassers have yet to hear about or register on their radar.

My OFNA GTP2E is a similar kind of car. With front and rear diffusers and big Plettenberg motors these things were breaking the 100mph limit way before the XO1 showed up. GTP2 could do with a longer wheelbase though.

End of the month seems such a long wait for my Sirius 1717. I am not known for my patience!

N

[big_scot_nanny]

Ninja, from what you've heard we clearly think the 1717 is rather spiffing.

But really, until you put one in, you cannot believe the absolute ripping this car can now dish out. The stock motor isn't slow (even though mine ate itself!), but the 1717 has so much torque and speed in it it's amazing. Watch your chosen surface rip as you get even more wheel spin with that last 10% throttle squeeze when you already think it can't go any faster.

Screaming! What fun! Can you tell I love it? :-)

Kev

[ninjagaiden]

Guys

Castle 2028 Motor blowers seem hard to get. I just put an order in to Amainhobbies in US who had two 2028 size blowers for $11 each so I bought both of them.

One might be available to help cool a hard working sirius...

N

[Spriggan]

Finally going to get mine back out on the track tomorrow and see how the new motor really runs. I have then single blower strapped on to cool it down a bit, but will prob get a double ready for its next proper run in a fortnight. I'm really looking forward to seeing how she fly's around the track now. Time to kick some Oddified petrol butt!

We only have next weekend off now, then the Vader is going to have to work hard every weekend for the next 2 months with race days and shows the club is putting on at local rallies and events. It should be intresting to see how it gets on, I have a new HW Blue ESC on its way as a back up, as the stock ESC is bound to let go at some stage. Then the next big item to get will be a new body shell so the baby looks smart for the public!

[Spriggan]

Home from my worst days racing with the Vader since i bought it. The Siirus 1717 Motor has outstanding power, problem is even on the lowest settings the power was just crazy on the loose dirt surface, with the Vader spending more time going sideways, spinning around and popping wheelies. I found it was just about impossible to put the power down and get a good drive in and out the corners. There is just too much power coming in too fast for a low grip surface.

The other problem was the motor was pulling so much power, that even though I was taking it fairly easy on the throttle, two pairs of the 5000mah 35c ended up overheating to the point they were like packs of soft putty and well blotted. even the 8.4 Nano techs were getting too hot and giving me much reduced run times.

I cant say I'm disappointed in the motor, as it does what it is suppose to do very well, it just has far to much power for the track.

The can of the motor wasn't too bad temp wise as the fan was doing a decent job of keeping it cool, but the back end of the motor was getting very hot, and the ESC wasn't doing to bad for heat

Just wondering what to do for the best now, smaller faster motor, larger spur gear and a smaller pinion?

Edited June 24, 2012 by Spriggan

[ninjagaiden]

Dropping pinon to 9T should help. On your v low grip surfaces a slipperential would be nice instead of the centre spool, but I don't think you can get one from the 1:8 scale stuff that would fit.

Are you running a digital tranny? If so would throttle curves help a bit?

[ninjagaiden]

Actually there don't seem to be 9t pinions at Mod1.5 with 5mm bores that I can find. Castle make a shim that allows 8mm bore spurs to be used on 5mm shafts. Not sure how well this would work with so much torque.

Anyone know any different?

Also, I can't get this straight in my head, but suppose the ESC is outputing 50% power to the motor via 50% Pulse width modulation, will the current draw from the batteries be half, or more than half?

N

[Spriggan]

I know your speaking sense Ninja, althoigh cant see there being much chance of fitting a center diff of an adequate size and strength in there with the present setup, and I have been wondering if it would make much difference to the handling if i was to fit the Futaba 3PM system that is currently residing in the Punisher, but as the basic radio gear seemed to be doing fine with the Vader just getting better and better on the track I didn't feel the need to switch, but it now feels I have taken a couple of steps backwards with the way the Vader drove. It even snapped one of the newly fitted CVD cups!

Still cant fault the power of the motor, Off the line the Vader leaped from 3rd to first, before spinning out and throwing a Tyre on the first corner Must say that I'm feeling rather depressed about it all right now! especially if I've stuffed 2 pairs of batteries.

[ninjagaiden]

I know your speaking sense Ninja, althoigh cant see there being much chance of fitting a center diff of an adequate size and strength in there with the present setup, and I have been wondering if it would make much difference to the handling if i was to fit the Futaba 3PM system that is currently residing in the Punisher, but as the basic radio gear seemed to be doing fine with the Vader just getting better and better on the track I didn't feel the need to switch, but it now feels I have taken a couple of steps backwards with the way the Vader drove. It even snapped one of the newly fitted CVD cups!

Still cant fault the power of the motor, Off the line the Vader leaped from 3rd to first, before spinning out and throwing a Tyre on the first corner Must say that I'm feeling rather depressed about it all right now! especially if I've stuffed 2 pairs of batteries.

Sounds like the hardware bill is piling up. I just hope it's all sorted in time for the race on 8th July. Would love to see it running!

[Spriggan]

Just been out and tested the betterys, and they seem fine, cells check out OK and they are taking a charge just fine, which is surprising considering how blotted they were when they came out of the car. I was handling they carefully and even our Jonny Nitro took a pace or two back when he saw them.

So while the batteries were out on a table on the drive (playing it safe) I was running a few bench tests on the Vader:

With the throttle gain on the controller turned down to 50% I held the throttle at full power for several minutes, the batteries and wires stayed cool as did the motor can, but the back plate of the motor still got reasonable hot to the touch. Sorry I can't be more accurate but I cant but my hands on the old nitro heat gun.

When I turned the throttle gain up to 80%, which is the point at which the light on the ESC turns from red to green and the motor seems to reach peak rpm, everything apart from the motors back plate stayed reasonably cool, but the temp at back of the motor shot up, to the point you couldn't touch it, and thats with the wheels in the air!

I then dropped it on the drive and gave the car a very short blast up and down the road, and instantly the temp of the 5000mah 35c battery's went up as did the temp of the motor.

I am really at a loss what to do with it. Even if you say the batteries aren't quite as higher rated as they claim, if they were 25C, they should still be able to power that motor. But then why are the 8.4 Nanotech's even getting hot? at their rating they should be having no trouble.

[Spriggan]

Sounds like the hardware bill is piling up. I just hope it's all sorted in time for the race on 8th July. Would love to see it running!

I was hoping to take a break form buying for a while. I have a few spare CVD shaft, and a spare ESC on the way, all the alloy stuff fitted and a choice of wheels available, now it seems I may need another less powerful motor and/or more big batteries. Either way, I will have it running on the 8th no probs. You coming down for that one?

[ninjagaiden]

Just been out and tested the betterys, and they seem fine, cells check out OK and they are taking a charge just fine, which is surprising considering how blotted they were when they came out of the car. I was handling they carefully and even our Jonny Nitro took a pace or two back when he saw them.

So while the batteries were out on a table on the drive (playing it safe) I was running a few bench tests on the Vader:

With the throttle gain on the controller turned down to 50% I held the throttle at full power for several minutes, the batteries and wires stayed cool as did the motor can, but the back plate of the motor still got reasonable hot to the touch. Sorry I can't be more accurate but I cant but my hands on the old nitro heat gun.

When I turned the throttle gain up to 80%, which is the point at which the light on the ESC turns from red to green and the motor seems to reach peak rpm, everything apart from the motors back plate stayed reasonably cool, but the temp at back of the motor shot up, to the point you couldn't touch it, and thats with the wheels in the air!

I then dropped it on the drive and gave the car a very short blast up and down the road, and instantly the temp of the 5000mah 35c battery's went up as did the temp of the motor.

I am really at a loss what to do with it. Even if you say the batteries aren't quite as higher rated as they claim, if they were 25C, they should still be able to power that motor. But then why are the 8.4 Nanotech's even getting hot? at their rating they should be having no trouble.

Oh! That's just the info I was looking for as I was thinking of throttling down the 1717 to reduce amp draw and to protect the drivetrain. The fact the can got hot even with the wheels off the ground suggests it is overgeared. I am now really thinking of cancelling my 1717 and holding on to the stock motor, or going for something more closely matched KV wise.

I am sure you have thought of this but have you checked you haven't got anything sticking in the drive drain, increasing motor resistance. Even overgearing a model I never managed to get the can hot unless it was under load (i.e. running on a surface).

Feeling your pain...

N

Edited June 26, 2012 by ninjagaiden

[Spriggan]

Yep, gear train is nice and smooth, I have the upgrade alloy hub carriers and HPI converters all round, so there is no resistance from overtightened wheel nuts or anything like that, although I do need to reoil the rear diff as its a bit tight.

It would be helpful if we knew what the amp and watt rating the stock motor has. Its a 980kva so should be fairly high torque, but there seems to be no details anywhere about its wattage. The thing is I always got the stock motor too hot when running on the track, thats why I went for the 1717. I'm thinking of trying something like a Leopard 4074, its 80amp & 2600w, compared to 120amp 3800w approx, so it should draw less out of the batteries keeping the heat down in them, then its just a matter of seeing how hot I can make that!

[ninjagaiden]

Yep, gear train is nice and smooth, I have the upgrade alloy hub carriers and HPI converters all round, so there is no resistance from overtightened wheel nuts or anything like that, although I do need to reoil the rear diff as its a bit tight.

It would be helpful if we knew what the amp and watt rating the stock motor has. Its a 980kva so should be fairly high torque, but there seems to be no details anywhere about its wattage. The thing is I always got the stock motor too hot when running on the track, thats why I went for the 1717. I'm thinking of trying something like a Leopard 4074, its 80amp & 2600w, compared to 120amp 3800w approx, so it should draw less out of the batteries keeping the heat down in them, then its just a matter of seeing how hot I can make that!

Yes it would be nice to know about the 980kv and its output. Can't find much on it anywhere.

Alishan Mao had a youtube unboxing of an XBE which has a 4485 1150kv motor in it but I can't find this one either.

Interesting you are looking at the 4074 - where you looking at the 1400kv one? I was looking at the 4092/3.5D 1480kb which is recommended as a 6S setup by Kershaw Designs, or even going to a 4092/3Y 930kv motor and gearing up a little, but I like your thinking on the shorter rotor of the 4074.

N

[Spriggan]

I think the 1150kv motors is what the Redcats were being fitted with as stock up to last year, but they seem to be using the stock 980kv now. There seems to be a few of the US guys using the leopard motors, thats why I was tempted by them before the Sirius came along, and may still be yet, but stage one is to refit the stock motor with the 11T pinion and see how that goes with the Nano Techs, it certainly went great guns on them with the 10T pinion, although even than the motor was getting hot! I'll just stick the fan on it and see what happens.