turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 The bell shows signs of the shoes contacting the flat face... Yes...to remove the engine if one chassis screw head is rounded...then remove other screws and turn engine whilst griping rounded screw as best as you can...(maybe a torx could grip a rounded allen...or a flat blade could grip a cross head.....or just drill the head off and grip the remaining stud with pliers/molegrips). The bell has also got a few scrapes around the side but they not deep so again maybe just run a bit of emery cloth around the inside? Or do you think I need a new bell? And cheers I will try that tonight and yes thst was my plan just drill head and use pliers to undo the thread but your way seems less violent. Lol so will give a go turning engine. If there's another room to allow me to do this it will only need to crack it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes the bell should be fine as is...but a clean up will not hurt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes the bell should be fine as is...but a clean up will not hurt it. Cheers well least that's a few people noes I haven't got to spend lol. Just a quick run round with some emery cloth be alright? And would you recommend wipimg any oil or anything just inside? Also a few have said the nut may be wrong way do they mean that this flanged/recess bit should be on the underneath so the springs tuck into that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) I know these are probably dumb questions but I would rather get the job done properly this time. When I switched the integy shoes to the rc answer ones I literally copied the setup the way it was when I bought it from some guy. So it is all new to me still. Still learning :-) Edited October 23, 2014 by turtletom100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 As you can see aswell there are filings of metal around where the spur bell would go normally so it has definitely had some scraping going on. I will clean this all up best I can as I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Your flywheel nut is wrong...you need something more like this (note the first image I found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-clutch-nut/rc-car-products/31812 or this (second found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-engine-flywheel-nut/rc-car-products/37549 Edited October 23, 2014 by Anthoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/snottybottom/media/E3C502CD-6B75-4DC6-8CBE-B56A7B4067AC_zpspsawi66o.png.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r490/snottybottom/E3C502CD-6B75-4DC6-8CBE-B56A7B4067AC_zpspsawi66o.png%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your flywheel nut is wrong...you need something more like this (note the first image I found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-clutch-nut/rc-car-products/31812 or this (second found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-engine-flywheel-nut/rc-car-products/37549 Are these not different though? They look different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 ]http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/snottybottom/media/E3C502CD-6B75-4DC6-8CBE-B56A7B4067AC_zpspsawi66o.png.html] I can't get this link to work Ignore that it works now me being dumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks, I couldn't be arsed to install photo bucket on my new phone. But if you can zoom in some how you can see the springs are held in place by a small ridge on the clutch nut. Not saying you need this one, but a different one maybe or you current one, put on the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks, I couldn't be arsed to install photo bucket on my new phone. But if you can zoom in some how you can see the springs are held in place by a small ridge on the clutch nut. Not saying you need this one, but a different one maybe or you current one, put on the other way around. When you say ridge do you mean the lip that looks like it is sitting at the front of mine? I have just taken he engine out and took 5 he shoes off this is what I have got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) When you say ridge do you mean the lip that looks like it is sitting at the front of mine? I have just taken he engine out and took 5 he shoes off this is what I have got. These are the 2 images I was meant to upload Edited October 23, 2014 by turtletom100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your flywheel nut is wrong...you need something more like this (note the first image I found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-clutch-nut/rc-car-products/31812 or this (second found)... http://www.modelsport.co.uk/hpi-engine-flywheel-nut/rc-car-products/37549 It appears I do have one of them nuts on the car I have just taken the shoes off and as can be seen above I do have one of them yo - yo looking nuts but is it back to front shoukd the lip be at the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am going to buy new shoes and springs over the weekend just to be on the safe side I have also got a three clutch shoe tool coming and can Anthoop confirm whether or not I need one of the nuts that were mentioned above or not. I will clean the bell then hopefully all will be well when I come to out it together next week :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes the two nuts I posted are different...there are a boat load of different ones.. In the last picture above...you can see where the shoes have been sitting/rubbing on the pins...and that looks to be too high. Put one shoe/spring back on and see if the shoe sits on the flywheel or floats above it...wiggle the shoe around... What flywheel is it...is there a specific nut for it....is the center (where the nut bolts against) raised? The nut you have is the correct way around...if it was the other way then the shoes would ride higher than now...but for some reason the flat face of the shoes is contacting the bell....have the shoes actually been riding up the pins because of the burrs on the side of the shoes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes the two nuts I posted are different...there are a boat load of different ones.. In the last picture above...you can see where the shoes have been sitting/rubbing on the pins...and that looks to be too high. Put one shoe/spring back on and see if the shoe sits on the flywheel or floats above it...wiggle the shoe around... What flywheel is it...is there a specific nut for it....is the center (where the nut bolts against) raised? The nut you have is the correct way around...if it was the other way then the shoes would ride higher than now...but for some reason the flat face of the shoes is contacting the bell....have the shoes actually been riding up the pins because of the burrs on the side of the shoes? The flywheel I believe is a integy 3 flywheel the reason I say that is because I found on ebay the integy triple flywheel and clutch shoe kit which I believe was in there before I changed them to the rc answer ones. I will stick a show back on and send an image but when I took em off one appeared to be have a gap between the flywheel and the shoe itself but the other 2 seemed to sit flat against the flywheel. 221565307448 that is the item number to what I believe is on there (I am 90% sure of this) I can't be 100% as I did buy it used but going by the other hop ups and also the colour of the shoes I took off when I replaced to the answer rc ones I would say integy. With regards to the burrs this is a definite possibility as both sides had burs front and back of the shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Is it just the spring that was on the black shoe that is deformed and raising it up?...Compare the shoe springs that came off... Does your flywheel have that irregular pattern on the back? Edited October 24, 2014 by Anthoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Is it just the spring that was on the black shoe that is deformed and raising it up?...Compare the shoe springs that came off... Does your flywheel have that irregular pattern on the back? I can't remember if it was just the spring and I will have to check the rear of the flywheel but haven't got a flywheel puller but will have to wait till bot 5 ish? If not I can just buy the integy set again to be safe and use the integy shoes but I read that the answer rc were the ones to use or a savage 3 shoe piece kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 those shrooms growing on the pad faces are not the pads mushrroming. that is the inner face of the clutch been ground away. two possibles here, incorrect re-fitting/install of flywheel-clutch springs and shoes. OR the clutch springs are TO LIGHT and the engine is engaging at a very low rpm. but with enough torque that it does not stall and heats up the bell housing and eats the clucth bell lining. i am going for incorrect seated flywheel and clutch shoe assembley. culprit is horizontal sliding of the clutch shoe assembley , causing binding upon the shoe face and contact face of the bell housing. the remedy is fairly easy, matching a flywheel to your engine and a replacement clutch unit ( bell / shoes / spring / flywheelpate ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 those shrooms growing on the pad faces are not the pads mushrroming. that is the inner face of the clutch been ground away. two possibles here, incorrect re-fitting/install of flywheel-clutch springs and shoes. OR the clutch springs are TO LIGHT and the engine is engaging at a very low rpm. but with enough torque that it does not stall and heats up the bell housing and eats the clucth bell lining. i am going for incorrect seated flywheel and clutch shoe assembley. culprit is horizontal sliding of the clutch shoe assembley , causing binding upon the shoe face and contact face of the bell housing. the remedy is fairly easy, matching a flywheel to your engine and a replacement clutch unit ( bell / shoes / spring / flywheelpate ) Cheers for replying. And the setup using the integy three flywheel (is the integy one) is made for the firestorm so that shoukd be fine. Granted I was using different shoes I was using the answer rc but o lg because again this were recommended for the firestorm. I am going to order another set of shoes and springs and the tool. One of the shoes definitely wasn't flat on the flywheel so going to hope it was just down to not being seated correctly. I can buy the integy set up again but after browsing Google answer rc are meant to be better for the firestorm. Why would I need another bell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Also the clutch bell is a integy 19t vented bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Shall I order answer rc clutch shoes or the integy setup and just put new integy flywheel and shoes on aswell? (I already have integy flywheel but would just buy the lot and do it again, I do think this is an overkill though) if the lata do I need a flywheel puller or can I use a screwdriver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Shame to see you struggling with this still, If I were you I would just try the clutch nuts suggested by anthoop and some new springs. Silly question but have you asked in the firestorm thread? Surely they can shed some light on this..... And also, have you tried your clutch nut the other way round? Edited October 26, 2014 by Dirtbag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiyacowboy Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Problem here is, what works in one machine may not work for another, nothing is ever a perfect match. so here is what i would do. first off we know this is a clutch problem and its an upgraded system being used, what i would do myself is find someone that has a original clutch flywheel, spring set and shoes even if worn slightly, and a bell housing. i would install all stock parts into the drive train and check for binding-grinding-clunking. i would then fire up the motor, leaving the settings as they are. now if we find the system plays ball, ie the motor turns and the idle is still. no moving truck, we know the upgrade clutch is the key area. now there is a step guide to take. remove OLD flywheel and replace with new upgrade, check machine for grind-bind-clunk and fire up no idle movement the flywheel is good. replace old fywheel and add the new springs only, do the above test if idle stays still, try new springs and clutch shoes. test again...... NOW if the clutch shoes/spring shows idle movement we have the area nailed, BUT for the sake of it just test with the old flywheel/shoes and new clutch bell. your going to find the culprit somewhere as you swap out and in for uprated parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletom100 Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Problem here is, what works in one machine may not work for another, nothing is ever a perfect match. so here is what i would do. first off we know this is a clutch problem and its an upgraded system being used, what i would do myself is find someone that has a original clutch flywheel, spring set and shoes even if worn slightly, and a bell housing. i would install all stock parts into the drive train and check for binding-grinding-clunking. i would then fire up the motor, leaving the settings as they are. now if we find the system plays ball, ie the motor turns and the idle is still. no moving truck, we know the upgrade clutch is the key area. now there is a step guide to take. remove OLD flywheel and replace with new upgrade, check machine for grind-bind-clunk and fire up no idle movement the flywheel is good. replace old fywheel and add the new springs only, do the above test if idle stays still, try new springs and clutch shoes. test again...... NOW if the clutch shoes/spring shows idle movement we have the area nailed, BUT for the sake of it just test with the old flywheel/shoes and new clutch bell. your going to find the culprit somewhere as you swap out and in for uprated parts. Issue I have with this is the guy I bought it from don't have the original flywheel and shoes and I don't know anyone with a firestorm so can't ask them either. I got the original bell housing. I really don't want to have to buy the old flywheel and shoes as I would much rather just buy a new three way flywheel and clutch shoes and springs. I am stuck now and this is all that is stopping running this running sweetly. The shoes I have took out are pretty worn which I would put down to running with clutch engaging all the time. One of the shoes weren't sitting flush to the flywheel I know that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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