Hyper 21 engine back up and running w/o stalling. Need help with what to tune next.

[squarecrumpets]

Hello,

 

I've reset the needles the factory settings and started again from there. The engine now starts up fine but only if I increase the idle by 1/2 turn. I guess the LSN is too rich. However, when I pinch the fuel line it cuts out in 4 - 5 seconds.

I've solved the engine stalling when I hit the throttle or at WOT.

 

At the moment it bogs down for a split second when I hit the throttle.

 

Anyway I guess I should start leaning the HSN before adjusting the LSN.

 

At the moment the HSN is leaned in by 1/4 turn and the LSN about 1/2 turn.

 

Please comment on how these runs look, i.e. too much smoke? Which needle is still too rich etc.

 

Thanks so much in advance. Much appreciated.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9MP7cvmiM

[nareshpatel101]

Hello,
 
I've reset the needles the factory settings and started again from there. The engine now starts up fine but only if I increase the idle by 1/2 turn. I guess the LSN is too rich. However, when I pinch the fuel line it cuts out in 4 - 5 seconds.
I've solved the engine stalling when I hit the throttle or at WOT.
 
At the moment it bogs down for a split second when I hit the throttle.
 
Anyway I guess I should start leaning the HSN before adjusting the LSN.
 
At the moment the HSN is leaned in by 1/4 turn and the LSN about 1/2 turn.
 
Please comment on how these runs look, i.e. too much smoke? Which needle is still too rich etc.
 
Thanks so much in advance. Much appreciated.
 

Hi mate, thanks seems hell of alot better now, good trail of smoke on acceleration, not really noticed the bogging really. Don't forget your engine's still new so let it wear it abit that should make a difference too. But at the moment in view I think it's running sweet[emoji106]

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[squarecrumpets]

7 minutes ago, nareshpatel101 said:

Hi mate, thanks seems hell of alot better now, good trail of smoke on acceleration, not really noticed the bogging really. Don't forget your engine's still new so let it wear it abit that should make a difference too. But at the moment in view I think it's running sweet

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Hello,

 

Thanks mate. That's great to hear. If this engine gives me more issues, I'm going to buy the Fastrax Enduro 21 which I believe is what you have in yours. The reason is, I want to use roto start instead of pull start to eliminate a cause of starting issues.

 

In terms of tuning, I think the low speed needle might be slightly too rich at the moment. I've marked its position and will turn 1/8 at a time to see what difference it makes. The engine won't start unless I first increase the idle by 1/2 turn and then wind it back down after starting, I believe this is due to the LSN being too rich.

 

I'm more comfortable that the HSN is correctly set at the moment. 

 

Hope today's weather plays ball so I can continue tuning this evening.

 

 

[nareshpatel101]

Hello,
 
Thanks mate. That's great to hear. If this engine gives me more issues, I'm going to buy the Fastrax Enduro 21 which I believe is what you have in yours. The reason is, I want to use roto start instead of pull start to eliminate a cause of starting issues.
 
In terms of tuning, I think the low speed needle might be slightly too rich at the moment. I've marked its position and will turn 1/8 at a time to see what difference it makes. The engine won't start unless I first increase the idle by 1/2 turn and then wind it back down after starting, I believe this is due to the LSN being too rich.
 
I'm more comfortable that the HSN is correctly set at the moment. 
 
Hope today's weather plays ball so I can continue tuning this evening.
 
 

My engine is a Hyper 21 3 port engine. I have a rotastart fitted like I have with all my engines apart from my SSK that still has pull cord.
Since I've got my starter box I tend to use that most of the time.
I'm sure you can add a rotastart to any engine, as long has bearing is one way right?

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[squarecrumpets]

15 minutes ago, nareshpatel101 said:

My engine is a Hyper 21 3 port engine. I have a rotastart fitted like I have with all my engines apart from my SSK that still has pull cord.
Since I've got my starter box I tend to use that most of the time.
I'm sure you can add a rotastart to any engine, as long has bearing is one way right?

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Your Hyper 21 is the old style which uses one way bearing. Yours is identical to the Fastrax Enduro 21. I've attached both manuals here and you can see from the exploded view that the parts are identical. The Enduro 21 also uses the one way bearing.

 

The newer Hyper 21 engines don't have a one way bearing. They only work with the COPS pull starter. The crankshaft is different. To convert the newer COPS to accept roto start would require changing the crankshaft, large bearing, etc. The total cost approaches £100 while a brand new fully built Enduro 21 only costs £105.

 

Well now you know if you need engine parts you could look for the equivalent Fastrax ones after looking at the exploded view diagram

Engine Settings.pdf HB_Engine_settings_Hyper_21 _3-Port.pdf

[squarecrumpets]

The attachment is of the newer COPS Hyper 21. If you compare the crankshaft and components towards the rear of the engine against the 2 above you'll see the differences.

20160923135250@Hyper 21 Engine (HoBao 2016).pdf

[nareshpatel101]

Can't open any of these files says I don't have permission!!

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[Bradderz 666]

Hi has this engine got.the cops pullstart mate or normal as I am going too order one now see and need to.knownbowfre I do u 

[squarecrumpets]

8 minutes ago, nareshpatel101 said:

Can't open any of these files says I don't have permission!!

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I wonder whether I'm doing something wrong when attaching files. Is there any other way I can share them with you?

[squarecrumpets]

3 minutes ago, Bradderz 666 said:

Hi has this engine got.the cops pullstart mate or normal as I am going too order one now see and need to.knownbowfre I do u 

I've just replied to your thread mate  Are you able to open my pdf files here? If you can then I can talk you through it before you buy your VS.

Edited July 30, 2020 by squarecrumpets

[squarecrumpets]

Ok here are the PDFs:

 

1. Fastrax Enduro 21: https://docdro.id/XKcUzSf
2. Old style Hyper 21: https://docdro.id/AXfkFVb
3. COPS Hyper 21: https://docdro.id/J4OhxNc

As you can see, 1 & 2 are identical (take a look at the exploded view showing the parts)

 

COPS uses a different crankshaft as and as a result a few parts behind it are also different, bearings etc. Total cost for parts to convert COPS to old style is close to £100.

[Bradderz 666]

Yes i can view pdfs fine good job  done think I should buy the hyoer then with the cops isit really that bad

[Bradderz 666]

indont want to buy a brandnnew car and then have to soentanother 100 on it converting it mate 

[nareshpatel101]

Mate won't it be cheaper to get a starter box?
I've got this one its fantastic no messing about.


https://smddirect.co.uk/collections/smd-starter-boxes-and-spares/products/jbr005-smd-nitro-starter-box?variant=5008153083934


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[squarecrumpets]

2 hours ago, nareshpatel101 said:

Mate won't it be cheaper to get a starter box?
I've got this one its fantastic no messing about.


https://smddirect.co.uk/collections/smd-starter-boxes-and-spares/products/jbr005-smd-nitro-starter-box?variant=5008153083934


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Hmm yours is out of stock everywhere. What do you think of this one? 
 

https://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/FAST564B/fastrax-power-start-universal-starter-1-10th-1-8th-box-blue

[Stormbringer]

55 minutes ago, squarecrumpets said:

Hmm yours is out of stock everywhere. What do you think of this one? 
 

https://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/FAST564B/fastrax-power-start-universal-starter-1-10th-1-8th-box-blue

my son has 1 of those box's and it does the job . His uses 2 nihms to power it dont know if newer versions are lipo compatable tho 🍻

[squarecrumpets]

my son has 1 of those box's and it does the job . His uses 2 nihms to power it dont know if newer versions are lipo compatable tho [emoji482]

Thanks I’ll probably get one.

There are boxes using the same 2 motors that are LiPo compatible so it’ll just be a matter of making the right cables


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[Stormbringer]

2 minutes ago, squarecrumpets said:

 

Thanks I’ll probably get one.

There are boxes using the same 2 motors that are LiPo compatible so it’ll just be a matter of making the right cables


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Cool

I've ocaisionally used it to start my Hyper ST and Trophy truggy's 🍻

[squarecrumpets]

2 minutes ago, Stormbringer said:

Cool

I've ocaisionally used it to start my Hyper ST and Trophy truggy's 🍻

 

Great! You've convinced me now

 

They're so expensive here though. Check out how much they cost stateside: https://www.hobbypartz.com/18starterbox.html

[GlowingBulb]

Looks & sounds like you've got the tune somewhere very close & for the time being I wouldn't adjust either the HSN or LSN any further. You'll find the engine will loosen up some more once you get more runs in. After a few more tanks perhaps 1/8 turn leaner on the LSN  but not a lot - take your time, you wouldn't rag the nuts off your brand new car straight out of the showroom would you? Besides looking for a nice trail of blue smoke you should be listening to how the engine sounds (plus check the temps to be sure you're not cooking it!)

 

There are lots of tuning vids on YouTube, some with conflicting information, the best I've found for an explanation is this by Mike Craddock, skip to 8mins for the tuning description.

 

 

A starter box is definitely the way forwards, I skinned my knuckles 1 too many times before I bit the bullet & bought 1, makes life so much easier - I've left the pull start in place so when I'm out bashing I don't need to carry the box around with me I just get it started off the box in the boot of my car then the engine is nice & warm for the next time I need to  start the engine again.

[squarecrumpets]

Looks & sounds like you've got the tune somewhere very close & for the time being I wouldn't adjust either the HSN or LSN any further. You'll find the engine will loosen up some more once you get more runs in. After a few more tanks perhaps 1/8 turn leaner on the LSN  but not a lot - take your time, you wouldn't rag the nuts off your brand new car straight out of the showroom would you? Besides looking for a nice trail of blue smoke you should be listening to how the engine sounds (plus check the temps to be sure you're not cooking it!)
 
There are lots of tuning vids on YouTube, some with conflicting information, the best I've found for an explanation is this by Mike Craddock, skip to 8mins for the tuning description.
 
 
A starter box is definitely the way forwards, I skinned my knuckles 1 too many times before I bit the bullet & bought 1, makes life so much easier - I've left the pull start in place so when I'm out bashing I don't need to carry the box around with me I just get it started off the box in the boot of my car then the engine is nice & warm for the next time I need to  start the engine again.

Hello,

Thank you for confirming that my engine’s tunes pretty well. I have tried leaning the HSN but it causes the engine to stall at top speed and thus I’ve richened it again. Been playing around with the LSN too and will need to experiment a little more. I still believe it’s too rich but not that far off so I’ll take your advice.

The only issue left that annoys me is if I leave it idling for a while then when I hit WOT it will bog down at the start as it purges a lot of white smoke before revving up. This doesn’t happen if I leave it idle for less than 10 seconds. Is this normal? Thanks.

Yes I’ve found myself a used SMD starter box like the one Naresh suggested. I’ve also ordered 2 x 6 Sub-C battery packs to power it. At the moment I have 4 spare buggy wheels in the car boot that I use as a platform for resting the buggy on while starting and warming up. The starter box will take that place now. I’m reluctant to power it with LiPos due to the fact it’ll be left in the boot most of the time.

I’ll check the video that you’ve shared out.

In the meantime it would be great to hear your thoughts on the issue with bogging after idle that I’ve mentioned above. Thanks in advance.




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[GlowingBulb]

I've re-watched your video & from what I can see / hear it seems good. It revs out well enough (it'll get more snappy the more tanks you run), idle settles down after 10secs or so & there seems to be a slight hesitation at WOT after its been sat for a short while. The hesitation / bogging might be more noticeable when you're physically squeezing the throttle vs. what I can see from your vid but if you can give it a few more tanks I think you'll see performance gains right through the rev range as it get more loose.

 

Quick question: are you using after run oil when you finish each day?

 

FYI - I've got an SMD box, it's great!

[squarecrumpets]

52 minutes ago, GlowingBulb said:

I've re-watched your video & from what I can see / hear it seems good. It revs out well enough (it'll get more snappy the more tanks you run), idle settles down after 10secs or so & there seems to be a slight hesitation at WOT after its been sat for a short while. The hesitation / bogging might be more noticeable when you're physically squeezing the throttle vs. what I can see from your vid but if you can give it a few more tanks I think you'll see performance gains right through the rev range as it get more loose.

 

Quick question: are you using after run oil when you finish each day?

 

FYI - I've got an SMD box, it's great!

 

Hello,

 

Actually the issue isn't really covered in the video that you would have watched.

 

Here's a very exaggerated example of it, but quite often it just revs up slowly and throws a lot of smoke rather than bog down like in this video.

 

If you would fast forward to 20 seconds into the video, that's the issue that I'm referring to.

 

Thanks in advance once again.

 

 

[GlowingBulb]

Very interesting, I'd look at leaning the LSN a little, it sounds like its trying to clear its throat after idling for a while.

[squarecrumpets]

11 minutes ago, GlowingBulb said:

Very interesting, I'd look at leaning the LSN a little, it sounds like its trying to clear its throat after idling for a while.

Thanks, I'll try that.

At the moment I have to increase the idle by 1.5 turns to start the engine and back it down again after it's started. Is this normal or is my LSN too rich?