Popular Post Tug Posted December 2, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2013 Evening all! This thread is for all S5 owners and Savvy owners. It's not some incredible build thread, so don't get excited. I picked up my S5 from Dan back in the spring. Loved it from day one! They do have an annoying tendency to roll over on grippy surfaces at anything more than a fast walking pace. She can drift quite well on damp grass or dusty surfaces, so that speeds up her cornering ability. That said, the suspension is sublime, soaking up rough terrain just like any decent 1/5. She rarely bottoms out, only on particularly big jumps does that happen. Despite having a huge bodyshell, there's no noticeable parachute effect, she jumps beautifully, straight and true. Here's a pic or two! Now, to business, in my book, this is where HPI dropped the ball (feel free to argue that point!). The combo, as most of you will know, is a 1/8 combo. The CC combo, 120 Amp ESC and a 1515, 2200 kv motor. The power is sent through a gearbox with reduction gears, this is what allows the 2200 to be able to push the S5 along at all! They weigh approx 8 1/2 kgs fully loaded. On 4s they're dull, 5s improves things, but it's not until you go 6s that the S5 wakes up. With 22 volts they're a lot of fun to drive, with good acceleration (I prefer mine with 100,000 wt centre diff oil!) and a respectable top speed somewhere in the low thirties, although that's only an estimate, I never got around to GPSing her before the motor died. That's the problem, the 2200 is just not man enough for this car. Now, HPI did warranty the motor, but I decided I wouldn't fit it, only to have it die again. So I asked about to see if anyone knew of a CD conversion for it. At this point Dejan from Alza Racing popped up and said "Send me your CD and centre dogbones, and I'll make you a CD mount, gratis!"! What does he get from it? The blueprints to churn out conversions, so if you want one, ping him a message! You'll need to specify motor mount spacings, 25 or 30mm etc! So I duly sent off my CD, centre bones and the bearings. And a few weeks later got this! Now, my turn to drop the ball! While waiting for the CD mount to arrive, I went shopping for a motor. I knew that Castles 2028 was plenty fast enough at 780 KV, mounted in a Baja, so aimed for that ballpark. I picked out a Leopard, 4092, 700 KV. Once I had all the bits, I got busy assembling it, then went testing. The Leopard wasn't bad, but to get anything like reasonable speed from it meant gearing it up, starting with 13/52 (slow!), then 15/52 (better.), then finally 18/52. Don't forget, the gearbox with its reduction gears are gone! On 6s with 18/52 the speed was back up to what I class as hobby grade, that's over 30 mph, without being a handful. However, the 92mm length was fine for torque production, but the 40mm diameter was woefully inadequate! Temps were climbing far to rapidly, which meant "cooling off" periods every five mins! That don't make for a happy basher, so that motor was shelved. I considered cooling fans for the motor, but figured one blade of grass is all it takes to jam a fan, then the motor's gonna cook and it's game over! So, off motor shopping again! This time i picked out a Turnigy 5682, 900 KV item. The biggest downside was the shaft, 6mm! This makes finding pinions hard! So I contacted Neil at RW and asked him to make me one! Top fella, contact him for all your pinion and spur needs, he'll make what you need. I had to make an educated guess here and chose 20 teeth. I based the guess work on the speed provided by the Leopards 700 KV and the fact that the Turnigy was considerably fatter! This motor proved a far better choice, with reasonable speeds on 5s and of course, better speeds on 6s. Temps weren't bad, but I'd probably need to drop two teeth off of the pinion to be comfortable with not continually checking temps and just driving! I'll probably pop that motor back in at some point and do some more rigorous testing, different voltages and perhaps an 18 tooth pinion instead of the 20. At twenty quid a pinion, that's an expensive game, so I'll leave it for now. That's because a game changer landed in my lap at this point! Here's the Turnigy. Now, around this time, a forum member was selling an unused 1717! You all know what that is! Did I need it? No! Did I have a car for it? No! Did I want it? Hell yeah! So I bought it! The Turnigy motor was doing fine, but I thought I'd just try the 1717, just to see what it was like. I didn't (and still don't have) a car to try it in, other than the S5. So I popped it in......on 4s......just to start with. This is a public forum, so I'll leave your imagination to guess my reaction to this beautiful motor! I'm referring to foul language here. THIS MOTOR'S AMAZING! Where have you been hiding all my life? OMG!!! On 4s with 13/52 gearing, this motor pushes the S5 along with no problem! No reduction gears, no sweat! The highest temp I've recorded is 40 C! That's after repeated speed runs on dry Tarmac! I know it's a cold time of year, but this motor just doesn't bat an eyelid. 5s is even better, but with that voltage, I start to fear for the already stressed drivetrain. One day I'll try 6s, one day. This is the first 1717 I put in, it's a Sirius. Here's the second! I was so impressed, I just had to get another! Due to the diameter of the 1717, a lower gear ratio isn't possible. Who care's? It don't need it! Sorry to have rambled on, got a bit carried away! I'll GPS her soon to give an indication of speed. A big thanks to Noj for his help with this! Another big thanks to Nick for talking to me about ESCs! And thanks to Neil at RW and Dejan at Alza! Next post will focus on ESCs. If I'm teaching granny to suck eggs, sorry, but I'm sure some people will find my clueless fumblings in the dark with various motors funny, yet informative! I need a short break, latazz! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh How Original Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Very nice post fella, well explained and things, I think the Sirius or Castle would be the way I'd go motor wise. Look forward to your next post about ESCs that was a good read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Thanks for keeping me involved in the process! There has been a lot of thought and discussion involved with this transformation, good to see your efforts rewarded and now revealed to the masses! Certainly a solution to the inherent issue; having a company that will replace a poor motor choice for up to two years is ok, until the warranty runs out, hence why my S5 hasn't moved for months... Bring on 2014 and conversions aplenty! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Nice thread mate look forward to the next installment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 The pair of (X01) 1717s were a bargain...slipped through customs too....think the one on the left is mine....or maybe not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 All the way through my motor shopping and testing, the CC ESC coped reasonably well. However, it was out of its depth (I know how it felt! ), its fan was kicking in all too often! So before I killed it, I decided to look at other options. There's plenty of room under that big shell for a CC XL2, but I was trying (and failing miserably, 4 motors in about three months! ) to keep to a sensible budget! So I tried the HW 150 Amp Pro from my Baja. This coped better than the CC unit, but was just to rough on throttle and brakes. So that came out and I went digging in my parts bin. In here I found an old MGM unit. It's a 14035-3 ESC from the E-series. That means 140 Amps continuous, 35 Volt limit! Yup, that's 8s! No, I won't be trying that! Having fitted that, the S5 was starting to take shape, then I crashed the bloody thing! Once again, a big thanks to Noj (this bit's hilarious!) for removing the bit I needed and posting it down to me. It's funny cos he disassembled the entire front end to remove it, not realizing that if you turn the car upside down, it's just four screws and the drag-link is out! Sorry bud, but that's funny! Anyway, a few more test runs have since followed and the MGM seems to be coping fine. No cogging to write home about, just a hint of stutter on start up. Temps are staying cool enough, which is a relief. I guess the point of this post is just to say "aim high", 150 Amp +! I may try my HW again, just to see if I needed to change some settings to get it running smoother, trouble is, with three kids, my test periods tend to be ten minutes at a time! I do intend on getting some decent video of this running, but there's not enough daylight in the week and the weekends are kinda busy! Loving this rig, definitely a keeper! Latazz! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Yup...I did that silly thing..good lesson in how to get the front end off tho!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Cheers guys, I've really enjoyed toying with this car. I never thought a Savvy could be such a pleasure to work on, I actually look forward to it! Another point just occurred to me, to remove the gearbox is a lot of screws, however, once you've fitted Dejans CD conversion, everything becomes more modular. Basically, remove a centre bone, then the battery boxes, ESC mount and undo the CD screws, then the entire CD mount c/w motor just slide out! So simple! Nice design work by Dejan! The TVPs stay in place! Bonus! Yup...I did that silly thing..good lesson in how to get the front end off tho!! I still don't know how to do that! Very nice post fella, well explained and things, I think the Sirius or Castle would be the way I'd go motor wise. Look forward to your next post about ESCs that was a good read. Cheers, it's been a lot of fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Maybe I'll tell....maybe.... ;-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Maybe I'll tell....maybe.... ;-p If you do, I'll tell you how to vent an XL2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 ROFL Deal! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just remembered, ammeter testing tonight, she pulled 132 Amps, on 4s with the 1717 mated to the MGM. That's on dry Tarmac. Just thought I'd mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 Couple of pics of the MGM and fan being installed. And a speed run, just can't remember what voltage this was on, sorry. Dry weather, daylight, free time and I will get some video of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh How Original Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Must have been 4s/5s surely? You'd expect more from a beasty Sirius and MGM set-up if it was 6s+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 It was 4 or 5, not tried 6 with the 1717. I'm hoping it was 4, that way 5 might just crack 40! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh How Original Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Are you ever planning on doing a quick 8s run just to see what it's actually like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share Posted December 4, 2013 If I can squeeze in enough cells (shouldn't be too hard, she's mahoosive!), I'll probably give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 I've been tidying up the cabling. It's far better than it was, the pics don't really do it justice. I've actually turned the ESC mount around 180 degrees. This moves the switch to the back, not a problem. I had to move a chassis brace, but not far enough to be an issue, so I'm not concerned about loading. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Just noticed both front wishbones are wet, that's two leaky shocks to fix! O rings ordered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 OK, so I had a quick GPS session, results are in! This is on 4s! This is on 5s! And a final run on 6s! I'm really quite impressed with these figures! Shall we up the voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I know people don't rate GPS readings for accuracy, but this is close enough for moi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Basher Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I've been waiting for this thread Top work sir, ill have to try the GPS app on my toxic monster:) Up the voltage please and video it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jony nitro Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 For sure up she goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I've been waiting for this thread Top work sir, ill have to try the GPS app on my toxic monster:) Up the voltage please and video it. Would've videoed it tonight, but was already dark when I started testing. I'll get onto it ASAP. For sure up she goes I bet you say that to all the boys!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jony nitro Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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