Anthoop Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The thread length on these HSP N3 plugs is 3/8 inch or 9.525mm without the sealing ring. That seems really long to me. In the manual for the hyper is says B3 and B4 glow plugs are recommended but I can't find any "B" glow plugs anywhere online. Are the plugs I already have a long reach plug? If so I'm going to get either the lc plugs or the McCoy plugs depending on what the hippy shop stocks more of. I'm going to get 2 of each plugplug (hot and medium) and just break the engine in on the plug that comes with the buggy and this N3 that I already have. It still glows super bright. I'm probably getting the replacement next week seeing as the buggy was being sent back via the postal service. I keep forgetting you have the JL.28 (basically a Force.28)....I have been thinking I am dealing with a Macstar.28, an engine I know very well....the Force.28 I am not familiar with but pretty much most of what I have said so far still applies. Anyway, we must have a bit of confusion on measuring the plug length....there are two main options in our RcCar world concerning standard plugs (there are other options but I do not think we need to worry about them).There are plugs that come under two descriptions...short reach and long reach....measuring between the two green lines in the picture below you will have either 4.5mm or 5.5mm... The plugs labelled B3+4 are Ofna glow plugs...probably made by someone else....but here is a link...http://www.ofna.com/start-glow-plugs.php plug wise, go and grab say 10 Mccoy MC-59, you will not go wrong with them in the .28 star motor DO NOT use an OS8 or a OS A3 , they will run in the engine but they motors are known for not liking os8 plugs much and do cause problems starting an running, the A3 is a cold plug but it will work at a push again lotta struggling with these two plugs. where as the MC-59 is just bang on for what your gonna want from that .28 i ran os8's in my .21 eb4 buggy and it was a dogend , but soon as i dumped that old plug and shove a mccoy in , it would start on each yank o the cord and not require somuch of a detune-retune As above it is a Force.28 engine.......but also I have used many OS8 in the Macstar.28...and many Macstar.28 come to that...never had a problem....as I have already said in this thread (and before elsewhere) the engine is made to use a long reach plug but the OS8 works fine....not ultimate performance with the shorter plug but it works.Also I have noted someone on another forum (that I know is knowledgeable) saying the OS8 did not work well in the ThunderTiger .21 BX....and I think that is the engine that you would have had in the EB4....I have used the OS8 (and A3 and A5) in the ThunderTiger Pro.21R (Schumacher engine) and it was fine, again though an engine made for a long reach plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Mc-59's are really expensive here where I'm at. I'll dig around online and see what I can find deal wise but honestly I want to figure out what glow plugs I'm going to be running and have them on order. I don't have a lot of money to just throw at glow plugs in hopes that they will work for me. I see a lot of people saying that such and such plug works great for me but I never see anything to back that up. I don't see a previous history of what they've used and done to their engine. Or even what the weathers like when they used said plug. I'm looking at the R5 plugs mainly because I'm running a higher nitro content and I'm running the engine hard. And from my research a cold plug will do me better. I need someone that has a good understanding of the whole glow plug situation and can answer my specific questions. Its just like I've seen some people say that OS plugs are crap and that enya plugs are the best ever and then I've seen the exact opposite. I'm not looking for a use this plug and you'll be golden answer I'm looking for a place to start that makes sense to me without having to buy tons of different plugs. And not knowing the manufacturer of the stock plug in the jl .28 makes things even stranger because I can't find out if its a hot medium or cold plug. Its not like we can hook these engines up to a timing light to see what's going on to some degree. And the thing that annoys me the most is that there isn't one single standard thing between all of the plugs out there except that they're a coil of wire in a metal housing. Yes its starting to frustrate me seeing as no matter what I type in I can never find a specific answer to what I would deem a simple question Whilst the weather conditions are of course a factor in deciding which glow plug will work you also have to know the altitude......of course it is all about the oxygen content....when the air temperature is hot then there is less oxygen available for a given area compared to when the temperature is cooler...and likewise when you have a higher altitude the oxygen is less... ...but in all honesty we are over thinking the situation for what is basically a RTR engine that just needs to start and run within reason....most RTR engines have a pretty large "tuning" window, it is only when you run an engine to within an inch of its life that you really need to be careful about plug and mixture settings basically because you are looking to maximise the potential... When you see a people arguing between OS and Enya plugs then that has to be a aeroplane thread....not really a concern for us on the ground as whilst the engines are the same/similar they run in very different conditions and with different fuel mixes. There are standard things between the RcCar glow plugs....you have Standard plugs available as short and long reach...and you have Turbo glow plugs (there is a bit more to the Turbo plug story but not necessary here)....as I already said the numbers and descriptions of plugs from different manufacturers is/and can be very misleading......do not make a choice on a description....again none of the glow plug descriptions/numbers are standardised. Oh and I would not say you are using high nitro content if you are using 20%...I would call that low for a .21 and up engine...there was some chart somewhere that I remember seeing...I will see if I can find it... Edited October 29, 2015 by Anthoop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) I'm measuring the plug just like in the pic you posted with the green lines and it is either 5/16 or 3/8 of an inch. My eyes can't quite distinguish the slight difference. Either way with the tape measure its is equivalent to 9.525mm but I will measure it again tomorrow with a digital caliper set to mm to see what it is. And I just thought of this but I held my 3mm Allen key to it and it seems to be closer to the 4.5 or 5.5. I prefer using mm and other metric measurements as to me its more precise. Plus easier to work with. All in all if its 4.5 then I will go with some OS 8 plugs and if its longer I will go with the LC4 plugs. Would it be better for me yo break the engine in on a hot plug like I did the first time or just use the medium heat plugs? Edited October 30, 2015 by RCN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 When I break in a new engine I use a rich mixture and a hotter plug than would be used for normal running....the hotter plug helps the engine to run better with the richer mixture (hot plugs in general provide a more stable idle and low end running with a wider tuning window when compared to colder plugs)....but a factor to always consider is that hotter plugs use a thinner coil of wire and so are more susceptible to damage....always advisable to keep an eye on the condition of the plug coil during break in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Ok well i think I've got it figured out. I'm going to get some hot plugs for break in and go with one LC3 and one LC4 and see which does better for me and then stick with that plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Just a small update. The new buggy was shipped out today so I should have it this week . Also I got a new phone so this forum will be much easier for me to use! Anthoop what procedure do you use for engine break in? I know it's the heat cycle method but I can't remember what you said specifically on my deleted thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Yes good news then...a new one is on the way. Ok let me try to remember everything....and I am pedantic with things... Check and note the carb. settings as they are and then set them to what the manual says......mark the flywheel so you know where BDC is roughly (always leave the engine in this position when not running). Few drops of thin oil in glow plug hole....then warm it up with a heat gun/hair dryer/warmer and turn the engine over a few times noting how much resistance is felt (plug out...some engines can be so tight to turn over from new even when warm that you may struggle...basically knowing how much resistance is felt will help you know when you can start changing the load and leaning the mixture later on). Put car on a block so wheels are free to turn- prime fuel- (electrics on) advance throttle trim on transmitter- attach glow stick- fire it up.If when it starts the engine revs are very high then first back off the throttle trim....if still high then richen LSN....but essentially try to keep the engine running once it fires....oh and you can leave the glow igniter on.If the engine is very hard to turn over then you can either add an extra glow plug washer to the plug or just unscrew it a little....basically you are looking to reduce the compression a tadge....the combination of a tight/liner and high compression can munch a pull start... So it is running on a block and it is not revving too high or too low....now put it on the ground and start running around....only using low amounts of throttle and constantly varying throttle (on a bit...off a bit...on a bit...etc)...doing figure eights is easiest.....keep an eye on the fuel level and stop the engine before the fuel runs out.....line the flywheel mark up (so piston is around BDC)....then let cool for around ten minutes... (Breaking in a new engine is one of the only times a temperature gun can be useful.......you can use it to ensure the engine is warm enough to start, you can use it to ensure the engine is staying warm when running (rich mixture means colder temps...and a reasonable temp helps break in properly) and you can use it to see how cool it is between running.....but it is not essential). So it has cooled for ten mins after the first tank....refill tank....warm engine....prime...attach glow stick...start...again small varying throttle but a little more this time...watch fuel and stop before runs out...set to BDC...cool. Rinse and repeat each time increasing how far you open the throttle and the amount of revs... Each time you stop and then cool/refill/warm/etc. remove the plug and keep a check on the condition of the coil, you do not want to see a distorted coil nor a grey colour, it should stay the same shape and be shiny....if not it is running too hot/lean.Also feel how hard it is to turn the engine over...with the plug out you only feel the "pinch", basically how tight the piston is in the liner around TDC...when there is less pinch we can increase the amount of load we put on the engine and also rev the engine higher whilst adjusting the mixture. Usually most RTR engines are ready to go flat out before ten tanks of fuel has been ran....but gauging how it feels will help you greatly.....keeping the engine warm whilst running a rich mixture is important (again that temp gauge...)... If at any point you are in doubt then stop and ask away..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ok by the sounds of it, I should have enough fuel to make it through break in and then a few tanka after that I'm hoping ill get the buggy tomorrow or Friday by the latest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I have a question about my friends buggy and seeing as he won't make an account I'll just ask for him lol he has a Redcat shockwave and he broke it in per the book (old school shoe box method) and well I was looking at it one day and I noticed the engine was stuck. Like a bad bearing, rusted stuck. But I messed with the flywheel and it began to move and eventually it turned over freely and when he ran it there was no abnormal noise and when it was hot I shut it off and there was no drag like before. Could he have left the engine around TDC and the piston have gotten stuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthoop Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Yes I would imagine he left it at TDC when it was hot and so when it cooled it was stuck....of course when an engine stops it will more often than not stop around TDC (no matter if you shut it down or run it out of fuel) because most resistance is at/around TDC.....and when it is hot the liner expands....thus contracts when cool Ideally in that situation (piston left at TDC when warm and left to cool)...you would heat the engine up again to attempt to reduce any potential damage when turning the flywheel....but really it is not ideal that it was left in that position anyway so swings and roundabouts.... There are only a few parts on the engine that can rust....the bearings- the crank (including the crank pin)- the gudgeon pin (piston pin) and clips.....The liner is chrome (or even nickel) plated brass and the piston is an aluminium usually with an amount of silicone....Even the most susceptible part to rust that would prevent it rotating (the bearings) would have to sit for a far time in a moist atmosphere to prevent it turning over....and even if you did manage to turn it over the bearings would be completely kerplunked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I this that's what he did. I marked his flywheel so there was no guessing and he probably just didn't pay attention to it BUT... The buggy arrived today and I will be breaking it in in the next couple days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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