DBXL Brushless Conversion.

[mond]

I was going to get a Yeti and do a trophy conversion but couldn't resist doing something daft and getting a used DBXL and trying to make it brushless. 

So the plan is:

• Get a DBXL roller (done).
• Get a brushless conversion kit (done - Kershaw designs, Castle XL2v2, Toro Beast 780kv)
• Empty my wallet in the direction DDM, Freeprawn, some Chinese guy on eBay (in progress).
• Learn something. Or at least hope too. 
• Post some photos.

I ended up with a used DBXL from eBay. I think I got a bargain for £335. Caked under a thick layer of dust mixed with petrol and grease it arrived the other day. First thing I did was strip it down (Pics coming soon). Figured I need to learn about the car and I'm glad I did because under that layer of muck I discovered:

• It just about fits on my work table. First impression is it's a giant Losi 8ight. I don't get the "It's not a Losi" crowd. It's a Losi. I own 3 8ight platform cars and this is just a bigger one save for the different transmission. Even the diffs themselves are practically scaled up front SCTE 2.0 diffs. Yeah, it was originally not designed by them but the lineage is clear enough to me anyway. 
• A King Motor engine. Turns over but no idea what it is (pics coming soon so someone can hopefully tell me it's worth!) and will want to sell it. The previous own said it had one tank through it but wasn't fully broken in. It's an eBay purchase so can't be sure and the guy admittedly wasn't entirely clued up on these things. Said he was selling to spend the time and money on motox. Fair enough!
• Identified by AJ as an FID rattlesnake pipe. Looks almost new from the lack of staining on the inside. Had no gasket though. Figure I can sell it on for 60-70 or so quid. 
• Area RC servo horn and throttle/break linkage.
• It has a stock steering servo but a Savok 0235 for the throttle. Going to put the 0235 as the steering servo.
• Area RC layshaft supports. The cup is heavily worn though but it's the only cup that actually shows signs of wear. Ordered a replacement from Dollarhobbyz. The actual support looks new. 
• Area RC front and rear chassic brace and the bracket that goes up front to hold the steering together. They look new. 
• Brand new lexan panels and a very new looking cage. Also has a Fullforce windscreen. Ordered some Full force CV shields. Previous owner also made some panels to cover the back of the cage which are nicely made too. Really tempted by the RedxRC Pro race edition body though. At least the old lexan would have some resale value as it's almost perfect.
• Nearly all the bearings are bad. Some are ceasing, some are sounding blown out. Got the Fast Eddy kit.
• The pins on both the front and back show signs of popping out. The ackerman and chassis near the front is riddled with nicks from where it's come out. Ordered a new chassis for $10.99 from Dollarhobbyz. Yes, $10.99. Bargain. 
• Front and rear drive shafts have a ton of slope in them. Decided to bite the bullet and get the Team Hoonage shafts as advised to me. Should eliminate a bunch of issues.
• Diffs are nearly perfect. Rebuilt them yesterday and despite being low on oil and it being pretty dirty, they're in great condition. No sign of leakage either. 
• The plastics all look good - one hole on one side of the rear bulk head is stripped and the top bracket which holds the centre diff in place is cracked around the screw holes. More bargains from Dollarhobbyz to be had so replaced.
• One of the metal hinge pin braces at the front is bent slightly. Looks like the car too a big impact at some point. Rubber hammer to the rescue. Hinge pins all look ok though, as do the rubber cups.
• One of the CV pins is coming out. Previous owner has stripped the head on the grub screw. Ordered the CV rebuild kit. 
• The transmission housings look healthy but replacing them with the Area RC transmission housing. 
• 3 of the 4 shocks are good. One of the rears though wouldn't compress all the way and I couldn't remove the cap on it. Undid it via the bottom to discover it probably wasn't bled. Couldn't see a blockage. After some trial and error bled it from the base as a temporary fix. Replaced the springs with DDM springs but eventually, when some come up on ebay, will replace with 5ive shocks. Fully expect this one shock to blow out at some point. 
• One of the wheels has a small tear in the tyre. After all I've read and the torque from a brushless system these wheels won't get used anyway. 

Some remaining questions:

Got a few options on wheels but not sure. The immediate easy option is Proline Trencher fronts on Proline Split 6 or Desperado fronts (for the wider stance) with Hostile foams. The other more expensive but probably better route is Silverback 5imians, Silverback beadlock rings, Hostile foams and Hostile All Terrains. I've also seen that the RC4WD Mickey Thompsons fit 5imians but can't find a review of the tyres themselves. They look the part though. Not expecting to race but will try and bring it to the track in Ringmer when they have an open day. Will use it on grass, sand and gravel. 

Servo power - Not sure on this either. The XL2 has a 5amp BEC which is bit weak. Considering I'll have space I was thinking either a separate BEC or having the RX and Servo powered with it's own 2S battery. 

The centre diff - I'm somewhat restricted on this one but with a brushless system with the plastic founds for the centre diff hold up to the torque? I looked at the Area RC mount and it would need some grinding and cutting for the Kershaw plate to fit over it. Looks possible but that's allot of money to potentially buy something and have it not fit. 

Diff oil - Literally have no idea what to use. The manual says 30k/50k/30k. But this is brushless. Ideas?

Batteries - 8S is going to get mighty expensive. Need options for high mah, high C rating batteries. I have some pretty good Gens Ace 5800mah 60c 4S hardcases but the bigger the better! I do however have 4 identical SMC 9000mah 60c 2S. Need to get out the electronics book on that one. 

[Tug]

The SMC cells would work well, but cabling will be messy. 

 

Zippy 8000mah packs in 3 and 4S variants will give you 6, 7 and 8S options. Obviously you'll need a minimum of two of each. 

 

I'd try 100k in the centre diff. 

[mond]

Yes, I would be messy. 

Not too keen on those Zippy packs, the C rating is really very low on them. Most of the advice I've read suggests as higher C as possible. 

[Tug]

8x30C = 240 Amps constant. I'm one of several owners that have used them with no issues. 

 

I have found that higher C rated cells don't seem to give as many cycles. 

[mond]

Still a little dubious. Castle recommend 35C minimum. You're using these on the 5SC Flux? That comes with the XL2 and 2028 right?

[Tug]

No, Baja flux. Never had an issue with them, but if it's worrying you, go higher C. For some reason, you can't seem to get large capacity packs with a high C rating AND a large cell count. None that I've ever found! Your SMC cells would be perfect! Just messy. 

[mond]

There's the Kershaw 4S which are 8000 mah and 70c but are incredibly expensive. 

[Noj]

We run the big zippy packs, both in badgers and my 5ive, work fine for 780kv.

As Tug noted, high mah, high C packs are like he's teeth. 30c is the 'norm' for 8000mah plus...

[mond]

I'll give them a shot then before I contemplate getting those Kershaw packs. 

[capri-boy]

Slightly offtopic but how do you get on with Dollar hobby's?  I'd like to use them more but there shipping charges are daft.

 

Looking forward to pics btw - i'm holding off on a 5th until works sorts itslef out one way or another, thought an eDeeBee is top on the list of possibilities at this junction.

[mond]

Have a look for yourself:

Losi 1/5 Desert Buggy XL 140+ Piece Screw & Tool Kit with Spark Plug Wrench	DBXL Screws	1	$17.99
Losi 1/5 Desert Buggy XL Front & Rear Bulkhead Set & Sway Bars	DBXL Bulkheads	1	$14.49
Losi 1/5 Desert Buggy XL Short Center Dogbone, Diff Mount & Bearings	DBXL D/S Short	1	$8.99
Losi 1/5 Desert Buggy XL 4mm Anodized Aluminum Chassis	DBXL Chassis	1	$10.49
Subtotal			$51.96
Shipping & Handling			$44.44
Grand Total			$96.40

That's 62 quid. A rough guess is duties will be in the 10-15 region. The more you buy the better the value but these were the stock parts I had to replace - buying them locally would have been a similar price excluding the chassis (and shipping) however can't really say no to one for $10.49. The one I got is usable but has allot of damage - I'd always be a little unhappy about it. The same thing at everyone's favorite swimming crustacean named site, it would be over £170. Not knocking on Freeprawn, service is excellent and great aftermarket choice but can't compete with this with stock parts. 

You're right though, it's expensive. I paid a similar price in shipping last time I used SMC, but that was Fedex and got the batteries 3 days later. This shipping is DHL and it's the slow service too and has to go through local customs. So I expect these in 2 weeks. Fedex does the customs up front and pays them for you. You then get invoiced. Way better service.

 

[Carpmart]

Looking forward to seeing this progress....

[Carpmart]

BTW - Get 500k in the centre diff, then play around with the other two diffs from a weight perspective.

[mond]

So I got a mail from DHL's customs people:

Charges due
Customs Entry £ 8.00
Import Duty £ 0.00
Import VAT £ 10.06
Total £ 18.06

So this is a real charge but it's also a con. Going to mail DHL today about it and ask what codes they're using for these items and what this customs entry charge is. I should just be paying duties.

[R46]

I'm running bowties an my mate running trenchers, yet to get em both together to see which copes better on grass he telling me suffers to much slippage on grass (been running mine in then 4ever cvd randomly snapped awaiting correct part from FLM)

Be a good build forsure

i like MGM conversion kit which I will use when/if do conversion.

[mond]

Here she is. The lexan and cage look pretty much new. 

The pipe and servos. Photo looks clean but it's actually extremely dirty underneath.

Halp! What is this motor?

Dirty but the parts are in good order.

Unexpected bonus. That's the only cup with wear on it. 

Any ideas what this is exactly? (I know it's a starter :P)

It's usable but some of those holes are not all that healthy. 

The rear brace is a pain to get off. Lots of nicks around where the front drive shaft pin looks to have come off many many times. 

The diffs and pinions are in really good health. Opened them up, cleaned them all out and rebuilt them. The cups also show almost no signs of wear. 

There's lots of wear and tear at first glance but all cosmetic. The bearings are not in a good way. 

Ready for cleaning!

More to come...

[mond]

Can see the damage caused by pins coming out. 

The Kershaw designs conversion - well the meat of it anyway. The two battery trays can be moved around to change balance. The other options tend to lump them together which seems a little odd. The plate to the left sits over the centre diff housing with the top of the diff cover poking through and motor and the ESC sits on top to the rear. The weird looking part is the motor mount. Looks sturdy enough when I did a test fitting. 

Stock shocks with DDM springs. Like everything else, cosmetic damage only, bar that one poorly bled shock. 

[R46]

My stock wheel bearings an clutch drum where same condition as yours in went fast eddy bearings :good:

You'll Would have to pull off barrel an measure piston size an whilst off can see if normal or stuffed crank running.

[mond]

I'll give that a try, thanks.

[Freeprawn]

So I got a mail from DHL's customs people:

Charges due
Customs Entry £ 8.00
Import Duty £ 0.00
Import VAT £ 10.06
Total £ 18.06

So this is a real charge but it's also a con. Going to mail DHL today about it and ask what codes they're using for these items and what this customs entry charge is. I should just be paying duties.

Customs entry is there fee for processing it through customs.  Parcelfarce can charge up to £27 to have it ignored for 5 days in customs,  Fedex charge about a tenner for an import but if you file a credit card with them the can waive the charge.

20% of 50 quid is a tenner.  I'm afraid that's how much it costs.

Still complain though, Always fun to have a moan

Nige.

 

[mond]

Yeah, I have some experience in the field - I worked at Sony Music for a year and did their import/export tariffs globally so I asked DHL what codes they used on these items. It's very possible that Dollarhobbyz didn't break down what was in the packaging in which case it's best guess and weight and they also add in the delivery costs to the total which is counted towards duties. 

I read through there ts and cs  and DHL seem to use every con in the book to legally get you to pay out as much as they can legally get you too by the looks of it. Fedex on the other hand charged me about the same amount on 150 quids worth of batteries from the states. Different code but I assume would carry a higher duty, although there is no way of telling unless they tell you the codes they used to work it out - and there's hundreds of them. 

[mond]

So while I wait for stuff to arrive  I decided to try and test fit the Kershaw designs brushless conversion. Not assmebled the battery trays, will wait for the chassis to arrive to do that but did go over the centre diff and motor mount.

The ESC fits on the back - it's purpose built for the XL2 by the looks of it. Holes to bolt it down match up perfectly. 

You can't really see i there but there's about 1mm gap between the top plate and the plastic housing. The instructions don't mention any kind of washer or shim and doesn't include anything that would fit. I'm sure it would be fine but it's a little concerning. I'll mail them and ask. 

Next question is would the FID centre diff mount fit? I know the Area RC won't because of the design of the spur guard.

Also 3 bolts to hold on the massive 1.6kg motor? Well I guess it works as I've seen lots of videos using this system.  I also put the boots on the bones and CVs. The fast eddy boot tool is quite invaluable! 

Also got mailed by the Team Hoonage people after I asked for a tracking link. They seem really helpful!

[.AJ.]

I've only just noticed this thread, looking good so far fella! 

[Noj]

The motor mount looks rather understated for a 2028....time will tell 

[mond]

It's a Toro beast which is slightly larger!