1st heli 450 Size, PLEASE HELP! WHICH SERVOS? + ELECTRICS?

[Diamondmaxx]

Hi All,

 

I have had this 450 pro heli kit here sitting duck for over a year, & really feel the need to complete this kit to RTR form... & catch some airtime

 

1)  I am stuck on which Micro servos to Buy????

 

mg90's  xt900's & so many more models types, when I start thinking of them my head starts hurting..

 

I have 2x of these are they usable atall in this build? I understand i need x3 for this heli...

 

 

 

 

 

2.) I am also looking for a suitable radio gear, heard good things about the dx6i, 

 

I have a gyro & 3500kv motor already,

 

3.)    & would just need a suitable Esc to complete the electrics...

 

This is my 1st ever proper helicopter, & any Help & advice would go down very nicely, thanking you in advance...

 

 

 

 

[Diamondmaxx]

Hello all Please advise:

 

is Mode 2 acceptable to learn to Fly 450 size helis, & is it mode 2 that is used on quads?

 

Its so I am moving up from my hubsan h107 & my syma s107, & dont want to have to change the way I know how to fly...

 

Been reading alot, BUT in all honesty I am not all up there with the heli & plane terminology used...

 

Cheers...

[Diamondmaxx]

Also trying to shop for an ESC, & its my 1st heli, & not really sure which way to go, out of these what would be more suitable / recommended:

 

 

1- Hobbywing flyfun 40a Esc  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151770812536

 

 

2- Hobbwing Skywalker 60a Esc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311401731459

 

3- Simon K 30a Esc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351487216738

 

4- HobbyKing SS series 40/50a Esc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351094100086

Edited August 26, 2015 by Diamondmaxx

[Diamondmaxx]

Went for a BLheli Over a SimonK, 40a Esc, 

 

& metal gear MG90s & some SG90s as a backup or where there's servo slop....

 

Just need a decent Radio set now...

 

Nearly there...

[danb1974]

You don't really want to just go from syma to 450 without at least a good bit of sim practice. And an experienced friend which can help you set up that 450 and bring it to flyable state.

[robocog]

I can only echo the comments

Stop, get a sim (phoenix is what I use)

Get an MCPX, crash the heck out of it and enjoy flipping it back onto its skids and flying off again

 

Once you get to the point you can take off, fly a pack and land on the skids THEN think about it

 

I have a good selection of micro heli's

(WL V911, V955, Hisky HFP80, HCP80, Blade MCPX)

All have had massive crashes and misshaps along the way, none have cost much at all to maintain or repair

 

I have spent hours crashing on Phoenix

(good tip for the sim that has brought me up to speed with orientation, setup the TX so the tail spins 360 degrees every minute or so, and try and hover a 450 sized copter staying in the takeoff/landing circle marked on the floor for 15 mins, once you have it dialled in and can do that without crashing or drifting out the circle - give yourself a pat on the back and switch direction...once that is dialled in switch to a twitchy 250 and start again!)

 

I got a 250 heli- thinking I was "ready"...all of the above has given me good experience ...but nothing prepared me for how delicate these things are

Blade of grass gently kiss the tail blades on landing?..kaboom!...spend, wait, strip, repair.... repeat

 

barely clip an object and it explodes

 

It's a good job the parts can be had cheap!

 

If I had started with a bigger heli I would have thrown in the towel before I had properly got into the air

It took a LOT of crashing to get to the point I can fly a whole pack on all the micro ones without a misshap

I dare say the initial outlay of the wee choppers has more than covered the likely cost in the first few flights of a bigger one whilst learning

 

Just my 2p's worth

 

 

[danb1974]

After sim a good step may be the upcoming blade 230s, it is a beginner's cp with panic (self-leveling) button, big enough to see outside

[Diamondmaxx]

You don't really want to just go from syma to 450 without at least a good bit of sim practice. And an experienced friend which can help you set up that 450 and bring it to flyable state.

 

I FORGOT to add to the list a Phoenix SIM!   Hell I agree....

 

I stopped playing the s107 years ago...   Moved onto the Hubsan & loved it...   

 

I just want to start putting it together now, Theres always gonna be a 1st time.... No matter what...

[Diamondmaxx]

I can only echo the comments

Stop, get a sim (phoenix is what I use)

Get an MCPX, crash the heck out of it and enjoy flipping it back onto its skids and flying off again

 

Once you get to the point you can take off, fly a pack and land on the skids THEN think about it

 

I have a good selection of micro heli's

(WL V911, V955, Hisky HFP80, HCP80, Blade MCPX)

All have had massive crashes and misshaps along the way, none have cost much at all to maintain or repair

 

I have spent hours crashing on Phoenix

(good tip for the sim that has brought me up to speed with orientation, setup the TX so the tail spins 360 degrees every minute or so, and try and hover a 450 sized copter staying in the takeoff/landing circle marked on the floor for 15 mins, once you have it dialled in and can do that without crashing or drifting out the circle - give yourself a pat on the back and switch direction...once that is dialled in switch to a twitchy 250 and start again!)

 

I got a 250 heli- thinking I was "ready"...all of the above has given me good experience ...but nothing prepared me for how delicate these things are

Blade of grass gently kiss the tail blades on landing?..kaboom!...spend, wait, strip, repair.... repeat

 

barely clip an object and it explodes

 

It's a good job the parts can be had cheap!

 

If I had started with a bigger heli I would have thrown in the towel before I had properly got into the air

It took a LOT of crashing to get to the point I can fly a whole pack on all the micro ones without a misshap

I dare say the initial outlay of the wee choppers has more than covered the likely cost in the first few flights of a bigger one whilst learning

 

Just my 2p's worth

 

Very much Viable info, I agree with you all the way...

 

I just hate those micro thingys, I got a batch lot of micro mini cars & they are such a pita to work on solder etc.... I have thrown in the towel on those I admit...

 

Spares wise, I have a good few 450 heads & tails alloy ones, which I know I will damage before I make a move onto a FBL system...

 

I am a true tinkerer, & have alot of time to myself, Lets say its like a Habbit, & keeps me Feeling like I am on top of the World..

 

8-)   

 

I aint gonna lie, just been offered a 450l Dominator with a DX6i which is FBL, & is much more sturdier, BUT in all honesty I am & would be happy with what I got ATM & my Learning curve...

 

 

It may sound like a Silly Question BUT here goes anyway:

 

"Is a Proper 6ch Heli, Much harder to fly then a Hubsan H107 Quad?"

 

My next Builds a Quad multirotor, & am gearing up & looking at frames already...

 

BUT having had this 450 heli kit & spares for well over a year , I thought I would make an effort & get this closer to running...

[Diamondmaxx]

After sim a good step may be the upcoming blade 230s, it is a beginner's cp with panic (self-leveling) button, big enough to see outside

 

The electrics we use nowadays should have all this built into them, Apart from a failsafe is my thinking....

 

Everyone you must have seen those "self hovering toys" that never hit the floor ?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=self+hovering+toy&espv=2&biw=1618&bih=808&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAkQ_AUoA2oVChMI187h_9fMxwIVjMyACh2pCQCM

 

 

our models should have the ability to use this kind of technology in a better manner...

[robocog]

Much much much harder IMHO

(or maybe just totally different?)

 

you know how when you return the cyclic sticks to center on a quad and the machine does the same and it levels off and returns to a nice stable hover?

6ch 3 axis or 90 degree flybarred CP heli does NOT do this!

 

They do not hover at all without continuous correction and subsequent corrections of over-corrections

 

when you push the cyclic stick forward to make the machine go forward and keep the stick pushed forward to keep it going forward on your quad....a 6 ch heli would have looped (or nosedived) by the time you have wondered what happened

Ditto for cyclic sideways

 

I could fly the V911 (45 degree flybarred fixed pitch microheli with low headpseed= nice and stable with self correction and stabilization /because/ of the 45 degree flybar) and I could do figure 8's and circuits in our small kitchen within days of getting it

 

It took me weeks and weeks of endless crashing and picking it back up again to get the MCPX to do similar in a massive warehouse and a footy pitch

(I actually had come to the conclusion it was the helicopter with an issue and not me!

 

I went along to my local club, found someone (even older than me BTW!)  who has an MCPX and demonstrated he can fly his very nicely...

I showed him that I was struggling with mine and asked him if he minded seeing if mine had some terrible fault making it impossible to fly ...bugger me-  he flew it in nice smooth arcs and circuits and commented on how it flew nicer than his and it was like flying a band new one!.....I was gutted and embarrassed at my epic failure at anything other than getting ti to tail in hover

 

but I came away even more determined I would get good enough to fly circuits of the indoor club as I knew it WAS possible .... I had seen it was possible

 

Maybe its cos I'm an old fart who is crap at computer games..dunno, but he was older and greyer than me!

 

One evening of crashing the MCPX in a field something "clicked" and I can now fly the MCPX though the doorways of house and do small neat controlled circuits in the kitchen

 

The V911 feels too tame and boring now - but I am very sentimental about it as it was the "one" that kept me flying when the MCPX and its brethren were beyond my technical skills - I can now do funnels with it and fly circuits backwards and bang the sticks end to end without it flinching...so its still a good one for indoors after a bad day!

 

It takes a fair bit of getting used to going from a nice stable platform that will not do anything in a hurry when sticks are banged from extreme to extreme to an inherently unstable wild mental mad fast capable of flipping on the spot and flying inverted machine...

(or curbing the old habits of holding the desired direction and getting quick at hitting throttle hold!)...and that's before the negative pitch issue that will have blades striking the boom when you dump it a bit too hard or the broken skids or bent booms from hard landings or the million setup issues that /could/ make it impossible to fly by an expert even

 

Honestly get some time in on a sim before even spinning the heli up

Get the heli looked at (and flown?) by someone who can...they are pretty complex machines- proving IT CAN PHYSICALLY FLY was a milestone for me and I knew which side of the TX needed tweaking!

Make sure every metal to metal attachment point is locktighted!

 

Then get a wee one that can handle a few tumbles (something with much less mass and much lower headspeed is a definite help!) and get some stick time in that will not cost a lot

Being small means it can be carried and flown pretty much anywhere!

Stick time is the key for the mindset to click!

They need to be "steered" and corrected continuously - so if you are flying a simple circular circuit - unlike a 45 degree flybarred jobbie or quad or coaxial heli - you /do/ need to be able to keep a stable hover in all orientations before this is possible

(at least I /think/ this was my stumbling point - until I could hover over a circle on the ground with the tail slowly spinning round I found flying circuits on the CP heli's completely and frustratingly impossible without it shooting off in a random direction or instantly crashing!...yet the V911 was easy peasy)

 

Hisky HCP80 (small, cheap and fun) has a rather nice feature of a switchable 6 axis gyro that makes it a doddle to fly- combined with some expo and dual rate - it can be made docile as a coaxial heli...not far off quad stability and when the TX sticks are centered the bird does hover pretty much hands free...with some drift...but this isn't really going to teach you much

 

6 axis stabilisation can be turned off from the TX when you are ready to have a go at 3 axis full on 3d madness (and flicked back whilst flying if it all gets a bit hectic! at least till you get used to it)

It's not a rescue mode...but it is definitely nice and stable when its in 6g stabilization!

 

Once you get your head round 3 axis flying - 6 axis will seem very boring

 

I have got fast at hitting throttle hold whenever I feel its going to hit the deck to get rid of any power, this has saved me many parts and downtime I'm sure!

 

Not saying it's impossible to go from a nice stable self leveling quad to a 6ch heli...

but the transition and getting into a new way of thinking is going to cost big time - crashing a 450 about whilst learning will bring you up to speed on rebuilds and setup for sure - though a 450 is a pretty dangerous and intimidating bit of kit when its headspeed is great enough to lift its skids!

 

Tonight has been a complete nightmare for me

 

a new batch of 4 cells turned up for the 250 heli ready for the bank holidays..hoooray!

 

charged them nice and slow, flew one pack outside to get a measure of how long it will fly to 3.7v a cell - so I can set the timer on the TX to alert me

(got 4 mins) - not brilliant but not too bad I suppose- they should get better after a few gentle cycles , landed safely came indoors - all good and happy

 

I needed to just tweak the tail (because it had a /slight/ drift when not in heading hold mode)

 

I did a single turn on the tail adjuster and thought I'd better spin it up indoors just to check I went the right way...

Fresh batt installed, started spinning her up

nasty tail vibe as the headspeed increased...odd

 

Noticed the tailbox screws had come slightly loose, nipped them up with fresh threadlock

Left the threadlock 1/2 hour to set

 

Had another go and the vibe is still there, belt had a couple of strands showing (despite it hardly being used!) so replaced that for the spare I had

 

Still had the nasty vibes on spinup

 

changed the tailbox for a mix n match of the best bits I had as the screw holes were now stripped.... and I still have a nasty vibe....  and it managed to snap a tail brace whilst spinning up due to the vibes...grrrrrr

 

2 screw heads snapped off (because I didn't take the time and effort to put a soldering iron against them to break the threadlock seal)

...another 3/4 of an hour extracting broken threads and one part that I failed at extracting the broken screw from

 

I am NOT getting on with these bigger heli's at all

It had just flown a full pack earlier n the evening and was flying smooth as butter, it landed back on its skids nice and soft as I had almost no negative pitch on the TX - I only added 1 turn on the tail turnbuckle now its unflyable

I just don't get it

 

I guess I'm not destined to play with the 'new' heli this weekend then despite me getting plenty of spares in and new cells...sigh

 

I am already thinking of getting rid of it as it seems 250's are (or can be) more trouble that they are worth

 

The good news is I managed to flip the HCP80 a few times...not that I am up to the task of keeping it inverted for long before the inevitable crash

No damage sustained!

 

Good luck and report back

 

Regards

Rob

Edited August 29, 2015 by robocog

[Diamondmaxx]

Much much much harder IMHO

(or maybe just totally different?)

 

you know how when you return the cyclic sticks to center on a quad and the machine does the same and it levels off and returns to a nice stable hover?

6ch 3 axis or 90 degree flybarred CP heli does NOT do this!

 

They do not hover at all without continuous correction and subsequent corrections of over-corrections

 

when you push the cyclic stick forward to make the machine go forward and keep the stick pushed forward to keep it going forward on your quad....a 6 ch heli would have looped (or nosedived) by the time you have wondered what happened

Ditto for cyclic sideways

 

I could fly the V911 (45 degree flybarred fixed pitch microheli with low headpseed= nice and stable with self correction and stabilization /because/ of the 45 degree flybar) and I could do figure 8's and circuits in our small kitchen within days of getting it

 

It took me weeks and weeks of endless crashing and picking it back up again to get the MCPX to do similar in a massive warehouse and a footy pitch

(I actually had come to the conclusion it was the helicopter with an issue and not me!

 

I went along to my local club, found someone (even older than me BTW!)  who has an MCPX and demonstrated he can fly his very nicely...

I showed him that I was struggling with mine and asked him if he minded seeing if mine had some terrible fault making it impossible to fly ...bugger me-  he flew it in nice smooth arcs and circuits and commented on how it flew nicer than his and it was like flying a band new one!.....I was gutted and embarrassed at my epic failure at anything other than getting ti to tail in hover

 

but I came away even more determined I would get good enough to fly circuits of the indoor club as I knew it WAS possible .... I had seen it was possible

 

Maybe its cos I'm an old fart who is crap at computer games..dunno, but he was older and greyer than me!

 

One evening of crashing the MCPX in a field something "clicked" and I can now fly the MCPX though the doorways of house and do small neat controlled circuits in the kitchen

 

The V911 feels too tame and boring now - but I am very sentimental about it as it was the "one" that kept me flying when the MCPX and its brethren were beyond my technical skills - I can now do funnels with it and fly circuits backwards and bang the sticks end to end without it flinching...so its still a good one for indoors after a bad day!

 

It takes a fair bit of getting used to going from a nice stable platform that will not do anything in a hurry when sticks are banged from extreme to extreme to an inherently unstable wild mental mad fast capable of flipping on the spot and flying inverted machine...

(or curbing the old habits of holding the desired direction and getting quick at hitting throttle hold!)...and that's before the negative pitch issue that will have blades striking the boom when you dump it a bit too hard or the broken skids or bent booms from hard landings or the million setup issues that /could/ make it impossible to fly by an expert even

 

Honestly get some time in on a sim before even spinning the heli up

Get the heli looked at (and flown?) by someone who can...they are pretty complex machines- proving IT CAN PHYSICALLY FLY was a milestone for me and I knew which side of the TX needed tweaking!

Make sure every metal to metal attachment point is locktighted!

 

Then get a wee one that can handle a few tumbles (something with much less mass and much lower headspeed is a definite help!) and get some stick time in that will not cost a lot

Being small means it can be carried and flown pretty much anywhere!

Stick time is the key for the mindset to click!

They need to be "steered" and corrected continuously - so if you are flying a simple circular circuit - unlike a 45 degree flybarred jobbie or quad or coaxial heli - you /do/ need to be able to keep a stable hover in all orientations before this is possible

(at least I /think/ this was my stumbling point - until I could hover over a circle on the ground with the tail slowly spinning round I found flying circuits on the CP heli's completely and frustratingly impossible without it shooting off in a random direction or instantly crashing!...yet the V911 was easy peasy)

 

Hisky HCP80 (small, cheap and fun) has a rather nice feature of a switchable 6 axis gyro that makes it a doddle to fly- combined with some expo and dual rate - it can be made docile as a coaxial heli...not far off quad stability and when the TX sticks are centered the bird does hover pretty much hands free...with some drift...but this isn't really going to teach you much

 

6 axis stabilisation can be turned off from the TX when you are ready to have a go at 3 axis full on 3d madness (and flicked back whilst flying if it all gets a bit hectic! at least till you get used to it)

It's not a rescue mode...but it is definitely nice and stable when its in 6g stabilization!

 

Once you get your head round 3 axis flying - 6 axis will seem very boring

 

I have got fast at hitting throttle hold whenever I feel its going to hit the deck to get rid of any power, this has saved me many parts and downtime I'm sure!

 

Not saying it's impossible to go from a nice stable self leveling quad to a 6ch heli...

but the transition and getting into a new way of thinking is going to cost big time - crashing a 450 about whilst learning will bring you up to speed on rebuilds and setup for sure - though a 450 is a pretty dangerous and intimidating bit of kit when its headspeed is great enough to lift its skids!

 

Tonight has been a complete nightmare for me

 

a new batch of 4 cells turned up for the 250 heli ready for the bank holidays..hoooray!

 

charged them nice and slow, flew one pack outside to get a measure of how long it will fly to 3.7v a cell - so I can set the timer on the TX to alert me

(got 4 mins) - not brilliant but not too bad I suppose- they should get better after a few gentle cycles , landed safely came indoors - all good and happy

 

I needed to just tweak the tail (because it had a /slight/ drift when not in heading hold mode)

 

I did a single turn on the tail adjuster and thought I'd better spin it up indoors just to check I went the right way...

Fresh batt installed, started spinning her up

nasty tail vibe as the headspeed increased...odd

 

Noticed the tailbox screws had come slightly loose, nipped them up with fresh threadlock

Left the threadlock 1/2 hour to set

 

Had another go and the vibe is still there, belt had a couple of strands showing (despite it hardly being used!) so replaced that for the spare I had

 

Still had the nasty vibes on spinup

 

changed the tailbox for a mix n match of the best bits I had as the screw holes were now stripped.... and I still have a nasty vibe....  and it managed to snap a tail brace whilst spinning up due to the vibes...grrrrrr

 

2 screw heads snapped off (because I didn't take the time and effort to put a soldering iron against them to break the threadlock seal)

...another 3/4 of an hour extracting broken threads and one part that I failed at extracting the broken screw from

 

I am NOT getting on with these bigger heli's at all

It had just flown a full pack earlier n the evening and was flying smooth as butter, it landed back on its skids nice and soft as I had almost no negative pitch on the TX - I only added 1 turn on the tail turnbuckle now its unflyable

I just don't get it

 

I guess I'm not destined to play with the 'new' heli this weekend then despite me getting plenty of spares in and new cells...sigh

 

I am already thinking of getting rid of it as it seems 250's are (or can be) more trouble that they are worth

 

The good news is I managed to flip the HCP80 a few times...not that I am up to the task of keeping it inverted for long before the inevitable crash

No damage sustained!

 

Good luck and report back

 

Regards

Rob

 

 

Dear Mr. Robocog, You Yourself, & your very informative Long posts have made me see the light, from  a whole new perspective...

 

I Have just googled & watched a few videos the helis you have under you, & come to a Conclusion that I do need something in between & before the 450 spools up, to prove myself & my flying skills..

 

thinking of the:   mcpx as it looks like its gonna be a handful to fly, let alone inverted...   BUT is this 4ch comparable to a 450 size heli?

 

OR is the hcp80 worth it with the extra 6 axis functionality you have expressed?

[Diamondmaxx]

& those really are micro....  Been trying to convince myself for the last, Hour...

 

Would'nt you recommend a 130 , or 250 size heli todo this?

 

I can see me poncing around with those helis small plasticy parts already....

[robocog]

Nope they can crash many many times till you have to actually replace stuff

 

They are physically small yes - but thankfully robust enough that you don't need to go there often!

They don't actually have many screws (mcpx possibly only has 5 or 6 in total) ...unlike the 250! and where there /are/ screws I don't think there are ANY at all that are metal to metal and because of the much lower head speed and less mass they don't vibe loose (unlike the 250!)

 

I'm an older guy with gnarly sausage fingers (end of one missing from miss adventure earlier in life) and get slightly frustrated working on the 250 because of the scale - it's a real test of steady hands and aging eyesight

 

The MCPX, I have changed blades a few times, feathering shaft a couple of times, frame (only because I made a pigs ear of extracting a sheared landing skid pin)

 

I got a set of "airtime RC" unbreakable skids as I found I was busting the stock and "heavy duty" KBDD skids very regularly whilst learning how not to crash and with heavy handed CP newbie landings, they are only push fit - but the pin would break off in the frame

The landing skids do have to come off regularly when you are new to them to refit the main gear when it shuffles down the shaft (I find they can work loose over time, they are real cheap so get plenty of spares) maybe I was weakening the skids by the many removal and refits to push the main gear back onto the shaft?

 

The ball links also pop off if the blades hit the deck - they are too small to spot in even short grass with my eyes (carry spares)

 

Main gear and ball links are the designed weak point that will ping off regularly whilst learning - saving any real damage and downtime - you don't need tools to fit them, a job that takes longer to dig through the bag to find them than actually fit them

made of all plastic they are safe to stash with the pile of batteries you will need

 

I have replaced the tail boom with a solid carbon boom as the stock one does split after many many crashes - the solid one appears to be indestructible

again no screws - no tools needed - it just pushes in! (bliss!)

I think that is it for the MCPX

 

Just get used to hitting throttle hold as soon as it starts going wrong and you may never need to replace anything more than batteries and the occasional blade when they get so chipped its threatening to kill the bearings/spoil the flight 

 

I have not had to replace anything on the HCP80, HFP80, V955 - I have replaced a few bits on the V911...but mainly because I wore parts out on it or I fancied a change of colour

 

I'd say I have possibly spent more bench time on the 250's tailbox alone than I have in total for the other birds, as for the 250's setup time...yikes!

 

smaller and lighter = less mass to destroy parts

lower headspeed = less energy to break parts

 

smiles per money, I would be torn between the rest of my collection, but the 250 is definitely last on that list! (if it were to feature on it at all!)

 

Benchtime, downtime and frustration wise the 250 is the clear winner!

 

I'd rather be flying today than seeking new bearings for the 250

(hoping it's a bearing issue causing the vibes)

 

Regards

Rob

[Tamiyacowboy]

smaller the heli, the lighter it is in mass, 

the mini/micros are twitchy because they are so small, but with radios these days we can programe out that supertwitch

and make it a more controlled.

 

things like the 130 250 400 -450 these are getting bigger.

this means longer blades and more weight from bigger frame, bigger motors

longer blades etc etc let alone a stonking battery.

 

 

6ch heli compared to a syma/hubsan 

 

think F1 car versus your old 1980 automatic rover 

 

a 6 heli your in full control, that means those sticks control every movement, throttle pitch yaw roll . then blade angle to produce/reduce lift.

your little hubsan has a brain it knows what horizontal is and when it is offset a degree or two. the brain controls the hubsan and the pilot

your just there to add your commands and over ride the electronic brain, even then the brain controls everything not the human.

 

 

took me two days to build a kit sized raptor 32 nitro heli.

it took me three months before i could hover in one spot with full control ( thats 25 quid a shot on rotor baldes, i went through 4 )

but the advantage is weight, a heavy heli does not scoot around so it has a more heavy flight feel to it.

i can say with hand on heart you can be a superwiz on a sim ( like myself throwing out all kinds of tricks etc etc) but real life things are very much different.

its NOT easy and it takes time , LOTS OF TIME 

 

fixed pitch or controled pitch its upto you but you really need to start small and learn from here upwards.

trust me a mini heli will do ALL the 3d moves you see in videos, inverts hurricanes cubans etc etc its the pilots willing to learn and soak up all that extra information

and condense it to skill on the sticks.

[Diamondmaxx]

Found one & am Loving it it...  (because of the Upgrades)

 

What you think?

 

(Just dont look at the metal to metal bits)

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLADE-mCP-X-/281772082770

 

I wanted to Ask, DO I really need the Brushless version?

 

& or

 

Whats better the WLtoys hisky hcp80    or mcpx?

 

Considering they are costing NEW around Double what my 450 kit cost me, I am wanting to make a Proper decision....

 

Found this ALSO contemplating heavily As it looks like a bargain? OR is it?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HiSky-HCP80-6Channel-3D-Helicopter-working-repair-needed-mcpx-cpx-hcp100-/111738786459

 

 

 

Are the VL versions any good?  Will defo only get the ones that mention CP & NOT FP....

 

Cheers...

[Tamiyacowboy]

grab a standard mcpx first and a dx6i 

 

play with the stock mcpx and learn, its still a great little flyer in stock form

brushless in newbie hands its gonna break your spinning the rotor head a lot faster than stock.

 

use the little guy to learn with, good thing is the MCPX is a well simmed heli

so most sims will have this model pre loaded with them. great news and means you can hone your mcpx skills

in the sim and real life.

 

in real life there are more variables that come, that very faint breeze to that gusty blow from no where.

threes that act like helicopter magnets, wildlife that thinks ist a all out warbird fight and close shaves with the shed-conservatory-rooftop-window

and possible encounters of the wife/girlfriend/kids.

 

 

my first heli was a gasser, its price just under 800 quid around a 1000 after learning to fly and the broken repairs i had to fortake.

be safe, start little LEARN TO FLY then think about maybe a brushless mod or a bigger machine , just having that i can fly this model is very handy

and slides up to the larger models as they all work on the same level just more oversized parts

[Tamiyacowboy]

Just to add : have a watch of this video . and listen to what the chap has to say why smaller collective pitch is a good idea

 

 

[robocog]

Standard plastic mcpx V2 on brushed motor will fly inverted and change direction faster than your eyes can tell your brain WTF just happened..

(you will need expo and dual rates and possibly still struggle to keep it skids facing down to start with!)

 

A stock one will just bounce 90% of misshaps off and come back for more

(get good at throttle hold to save the feathering shaft, main gear, motor and swash links!)

 

A full on brushed and heavy/delicate ally version of the same will 'go in' that much harder (because of the extra weight) and cost more in parts

(the std plastic parts have more than proved they can take some serious punishment in my incapable hands!)

 

Installing the heavy ally parts I would have thought would absolutely /require/ putting a brushless motor in it rather than it just being an option - and I would imagine the regular cost of parts that will bend every crash rather than just flex back into shape would hold you back from attempting anything more than tail in hover and make it a regular "awaiting bits from china on the bench" rather than airborne and teaching you how to fly

 

I know if I went the carbon and CNC **** route it would just sit in a glass case on the shelf

 

Keep it inexpensive and bog std stock (well maybe apart from putting a solid carbon boom after the inevitable happens)

Ditto the landing skids to unbreakable Airtime RC ones when you get bored of replacing them

....and fly it like you stole it

 

IIRC mine was sub

Edited August 31, 2015 by robocog

[Diamondmaxx]

Hey Rob, I Am very interested in that HELI (The Alloy One) BUT the Sellers Not really playing Ball, 

 

I was Just about to Start looking for a Standard Model...

 

BUT I am a Man for upgrades as I hate to shop for them after, in all honesty

 

There are MANY clones available, & I could have BIT one up by now, BUT as you say, THERES many differences in PROTOCOLS between all these models, & I want one thats more popular & parts that are available from UK.... & one that wont come with any issues...

 

Been on the Banggood site & Must say they have MANY goodens there, WLTOYS WL variants, V977 v966 hcp80 hcp100 hcp100s Ares Optim cp80, Its all about brushless ones, BUT as you suggest the Brushed will work Perfectly well for me.. & for the Budget & Budgeting for a DX6i at the same time...

 

BUT been comparing them all with each other, & basically the HT-6 /HT-8 adaptor issues when using with your own radio & twitchy servos / compared to using an rtf version with no issues...

 

Theres other differences as in they dont look the same & have different boards, laying down in the nose, & different type of servos, Thats why I hesitated...

 

Also 6g 6 axis & 4ch 6ch models differences that I never understand the difference in in all honesty...

 

 

SO BLADE  mcpx v2 is the way to go for a starter like myself, I hope I am right....

Edited August 31, 2015 by Diamondmaxx

[Diamondmaxx]

Just to add : have a watch of this video . and listen to what the chap has to say why smaller collective pitch is a good idea

 

 

YES Very effective video for me also...

 

I am onto it...

 

WORK IN PROGRESS AS WE SPEAK!

[Tamiyacowboy]

both MCPX and NANO in stock form are what you really want buddy. 

 

just trust us on this, we would rather you have 14hrs of air time than 5 mins airtime and 40hrs fixing the craft.

 

 

as above alloy parts, look good offer strength. to a pro it means when the heli is working to its limits the blades will fart.

this sound is a key to the pro pilot the craft is opperating at its max, to a newcomer these parts just add more costing to repairs.

 

YOU CAN have that alloy bird in time, but think of this, a baby learns to crawl before it learns to walk and then run.

same goes with heli's . its best to start small and cheaper than jump into expensive realms, i can vouch this myself

my bird cost me a darn fortune but it was one of my fave toys, problem is a 4ft blade span and a 10kg all up weight

is not a small thing and people are instahooked as soon as they see one on the helipad.

 

so yep go standard bog factory setup, learn to fly and control this , then look at upgrades when your skills let you enjoy the full

open skys and stunting.  i can tell you now hovering is not easy when you need to keep in one place. but inverted flight is 100% more harder.

at first your going to be bunnyhopping to hover but over time you will learn to punch out to hover .

 

helis you need to be 100% sure, you cannot get a inch of the ground and think meh i will land, you have to commit and get it up and away from the ground fast and smooth.

so for hovering try to keep atleast 3-4ft away from the ground , any closer and you will have ground effect .

 

ground effect is where your air pushed down from the blades rebounds of the below surface and come back into the rotor.

the craft starts to twitch around and drift more because of this effect. but the higher you get the less ground effect you find

[danb1974]

The nano has just got s.a.f.e. technology (panic button for self leveling _and_ beginner flight mode with limited tilt angle) - it's called nano cp s

That makes 3 helis with this feature: nano cp s, 200 srx and 230 s

Maybe the mcpx is next

I would get one of those since s.a.f.e. can save a load of money if you are high enough to allow it to recover

[robocog]

Does the Nano /need/ this feature though?

MCPX is larger and heavier...it still bounces pretty well and seems to shrug off 99% of the epic fails I have tossed its way

 

(blades, feathering shafts, main gears and swash links I'd regard as cheap consumables... a holed/split body shows you are attempting to progress )

 

I don't own any with this safe tech (unless you count the quads with attitude mode and 6g on the HCP80V2) - but /IF/ it also increases head speed to gain altitudes well as self leveling it -  I'd be worried to use it

 

Throttle hold would be safer and cheaper option to reach for and train fingers to hit it fast and early on into the journey- esp if going on to fly to a full on 450 that could quite possibly do serious harm if it contacted a person or animal - and will do major damage to itself on the mildest of tipovers if the head is still on full chat

 

An out of control Nano is unlikely to pose much threat (Eyes meeting full headspeed wouldn't be pleasant and could be a life changing event...but beyond that as long as you aren't flying it recklessly)

 

I suppose it doesn't actually /cost/ them any more to add it other than time and skill (it's only an algorithm I assume like on quadcopter FC's?) and a few bytes of code doesn't add any significant weight...so why not

 

I'm stuck with walking over to them and putting them back onto the skids when it goes wrong

(life in the cheap seats eh!)

 

The 250 heli could do with a 6 axis panic button at the mo

 

As long as its fun and not costing more than you can afford it's all good

 

Regards

Rob

[Tamiyacowboy]

when i started out airplanes left your hand at full power and sort of did half a barrel roll right into the ground.

thats what my Extra 330L aerobatic done on its very first flight. the later ones it preformed flawless even with

a hack job repair to the whole main wing brace i tore from the fuselage 

 

to be honest for a newcomer ifit has the likes of s.a.f.e - as3x and the likes its a huge bonus and should be used.

and as they learn skills then they dial down the auto helper mode to really start to learn to fly where its just them the craft and the sticks

no little trickery box of wonders helping out in the background. 

 

 

Quads are different , its impossible for us humans to fine control 4 thottle imputs and also keep tabs with yaw-roll-pitch.

it is only possible because of that little wonder brain of 2kb sourcecode algo's chugging away doing the impossible to the human.

its always in control , infact all aircraft can fly its just the human opperator thats clueless , they are design to and we just are not lol.

so drone wise its best just using that little box of tricks its just doing our job correct and lets us enjoy it more.

 

 

Helicopters, in the old days it was a cheapy gyro fitted to control the rear rotor , no box of tricks, two huge heavy paddles to help balance

but electronics came along and gave us flybar less, helis with just the blades no huge paddles. they also gave a more refined hold on the tail

more trustworthy than the older models of gyro, and with that came stability a second gyroscope if quick enough could allow the craft to keep itself level

move a year on helis became automated with safe modes , the heli would hold a hover and counter any -forced roll-pitch or yaw 

 

 

Safemode in my eyes is a great thing given the chance i would throw one in my 330L just for those sunday flyer days

and the change to flip it off and bust out a few inverted torque rolls - cuban eights to knife edges and the usual knife edge circles.

so yeah great thing to have but only if it can be turned off and the craft allowed to become the beast it should