Saving for a scaler

[hum@nzee]

Hi, I don't often post here (or anywhere) but read a lot in an attempt to learn what I can and have been mooching around all things crawler or scale like for ages. Forums like this one are an incredible source of information and inspiration, so I guess I'm just acknowledging that fact and saying thanks to those that do post.

Long story short - I've been into RC, static models and anything scale for ever, have the usual boxes of bits under the bed, on top of the wardrobe, the dust collecting shelfers and a forgiving wife.

Our son turns five soon, and is a very proud owner of a stock (apart from alloy servo arm and soon to be adorned with Kamtec beetle shell) Maverick Scout. My birthday's coming up soon too so - you know where I'm going with this - it just makes sense for dad to have a truck to keep him company - right?

I took him to Radshape RC on the last day of his school holidays and we had a fun few hours on the little indoor 'mountain', and doing a bit of research

I have to say, the chaps there were great, I'd not been before and they gave me an SCX Honcho to try out, smooth sales technique I know but I really enjoyed it, needless to say, my son did too. The 'mountain' is small obviously but made a novel change to the park, beach and gardens it's been in so far.

I'm looking at getting a kit, not RTR, I enjoy the build and have some radio gear etc. I'd like a 'scale' truck as opposed to a full on crawler, but will be building it to be as capable as I can (within budget) so it'll still do the business. The three I'm trying to rank at the moment are obvious I think:

Axial SCX, Vaterra Ascender and the Trail Finder 2.

My initial leaning was toward the TF2, but if I'm honest, mainly for the two speed and the body set. The Vaterra looks great, and I think, top of the pile on paper at least. The steering angle and other technical details really appeal as well as the metal links etc. but it's a relatively new release I believe so may have some qc bugs to iron out, unlike the Axial. The latter obviously benefits from a massive upgrade and support field and has earned its best seller status. It's also the only one I've had a play with to date, and although it was a well worn RTR model, was really impressive, great fun, and forgiving of my limited skills. I wasn't overly impressed with the look of the plastic links on the suspension and the diffs on the axels are chunkier than I thought they'd be (probably a good thing considering the abuse I gave them in a very short time). There was an Ascender on the counter and in comparison the clearance looked better on the Vaterra. That said, the whole truck looked BIG!

I'm having a job deciding between the three but it's a fun 'problem'.

Anyhow, I know I haven't asked any specific questions but feel free to throw some suggestions at me, and thanks again for a good read so far.

[ostewart]

Having owned the ascender I highly recommend it. Yes there were a few teething problems, but that has been solved and HD pinion gears are coming soon.

If you shim the diff correctly you shouldn't have problems even with the stock gears.

Also the driveshafts were a little weak, but again upgrade ones are coming out or you can invest in MIP shafts.

Stock wheels and tyres are fine but upgrading to beadlocks is a good idea.

There are more and more ascender upgrades being released now and it's becoming a very popular truck.

Next I've not had the TF2 but from what I know RC4WD make excellent quality kits, but performance wise they are not quite as good, as they are built to look a lot better they suffer a little in performance.

[The Dark Knight]

Radshape looks good fun, I'd love to go there if I ever pass it on my travels.

 

My vote would go towards am Axial SCX10, either the Dingo builders kit or if your budget could stretch, a Jeep Wrangler G6 kit. But you wouldn't be disappointed with either of them.

 

I started off with a Dingo builders kit and have recently bought a second one, I would've bought a G6 kit but with the plans I have of fitting a different body etc, the Dingo kit was the cheaper and better option for me to go with.

 

As said above, the TF2 is a good quality kit but lacks in performance.

 

I can't comment on the Vaterra as I've never owned or seen one in the flesh. One of my friends has recently bought one but I've yet to see it. He did comment that the quality of the plastic wasn't that of the SCX10.

[hum@nzee]

Having owned the ascender I highly recommend it. Yes there were a few teething problems, but that has been solved and HD pinion gears are coming soon.

If you shim the diff correctly you shouldn't have problems even with the stock gears.

Also the driveshafts were a little weak, but again upgrade ones are coming out or you can invest in MIP shafts.

Stock wheels and tyres are fine but upgrading to beadlocks is a good idea.

There are more and more ascender upgrades being released now and it's becoming a very popular truck.

Next I've not had the TF2 but from what I know RC4WD make excellent quality kits, but performance wise they are not quite as good, as they are built to look a lot better they suffer a little in performance.

Thanks, I am drawn to it and the used one I saw in the flesh had a real presence sat there on the counter. My only negative opinion during my 60 sec stare was the shiny diff covers on the axels, a minor point. I wasn't sure if it was a customer's rig at the time so didn't pick it up, but having watched some vids on their website I think it was the blue and white one featured in those. If I'd been clever I would have asked the question and may have had a go with that too? Maybe I'll be going back soon

I need to keep an eye on the upgrades - could do with a list of 3rd party places to bookmark if you've got one or two?

Cheers

[hum@nzee]

Radshape looks good fun, I'd love to go there if I ever pass it on my travels.

My vote would go towards am Axial SCX10, either the Dingo builders kit or if your budget could stretch, a Jeep Wrangler G6 kit. But you wouldn't be disappointed with either of them.

I started off with a Dingo builders kit and have recently bought a second one, I would've bought a G6 kit but with the plans I have of fitting a different body etc, the Dingo kit was the cheaper and better option for me to go with.

As said above, the TF2 is a good quality kit but lacks in performance.

I can't comment on the Vaterra as I've never owned or seen one in the flesh. One of my friends has recently bought one but I've yet to see it. He did comment that the quality of the plastic wasn't that of the SCX10.

Yep, after another evening of reading reviews and watching YouTube, I'm thinking it's more a two rig race between the SCX and Ascender for me. Out of interest, what are the pluses of of the G6 over the Dingo for you? I've been going through the current lineup but I think they've changed recently - some places seem to list Numerous RTR choices but only a few kits. Too be honest I'm a bit confused about what's current, new, upgraded etc. I need to check axial's website I guess to straighten it out.

The SCX would be the sensible choice I think, and I don't mean that in the boring sense! I love the fact that you could upgrade every part of it a few times over, although that makes my wallet nervous too! I know they're proven to be pretty adaptable body-wise also, so I could have fun with that.

Hmmm, choices, choices...

[The Dark Knight]

The only real plus of the G6 for me is the aluminium Icon shocks and 4 link suspension. Not enough to really justify the extra cost over the Dingo kit. However, the Dingo kit comes with the parts to convert to 4 link but using longer plastic links. It is the length of the links which determine you're wheelbase. I do prefer the look of the Dingo body though so that comes into play when choosing the kit too.

 

It also made more sense to me to get another SCX10 as I had one already and can swap parts between them.

[ostewart]

Don't forget the ascender had adjustable wheelbase for different bodies too, and the axles are made so they can be trimmed to make it narrower so the possibilities are endless, I plan on doing an ascender defender at some point.

Yeah the shiny diff covers are not the prettiest but I'm sure there will be black ones soon.

I prefer the more scale axles of the ascender vs big pumpkin of the scx10. Also many people say the quality of the plastic on the ascender is as good if not better than the axial.

I took the plunge on the new kit and really enjoyed it.

Look over at the ascender thread in the scale forum and feel free to ask questions.

The ascender already comes with alum links and 3 bar steering setup, along with the chassis mounted servo, and front cvd's... All of which are upgrades on the scx10

..

[hum@nzee]

Don't forget the ascender had adjustable wheelbase for different bodies too, and the axles are made so they can be trimmed to make it narrower so the possibilities are endless, I plan on doing an ascender defender at some point.

Yeah the shiny diff covers are not the prettiest but I'm sure there will be black ones soon.

I prefer the more scale axles of the ascender vs big pumpkin of the scx10. Also many people say the quality of the plastic on the ascender is as good if not better than the axial.

I took the plunge on the new kit and really enjoyed it.

Look over at the ascender thread in the scale forum and feel free to ask questions.

The ascender already comes with alum links and 3 bar steering setup, along with the chassis mounted servo, and front cvd's... All of which are upgrades on the scx10

..

Thanks, good points, and I'll have a look at the Ascender thread too. At the moment I feel like my heart says Ascender all the way and my head says SCX, but not completely. I like the sound of an ascender defender! Thanks again for the replies.

[Gaz!]

Plain and simple thermis just too many issues with the ascender to make it a solid truck. And it's has prescience because it's huge, looks a bit off with that big body and little wheels.

Yes the diff covers and wheels make it look toy grade too.

The biggest no- go for me though is if you plan on doing any competitions like the scale nationals, the ascender in its current guise is not comp legal which for a scale truck is just silly.......

The tf2 looks amazing but....the prop shafts are made of cheese, bearings have a tendency to collapse and the bolts/screws tend to strip if you look at them wrong. Again big spends on a already expensive truck. The two speed is just a gimmick really, a decent motor and well set up gearing removes the needs for a two speed meaning a lot less to go wrong.....

Finally onto the scx10, there is as you know piles of options to go for with everything, can't really say much but it's not changed in 10 years which means it was made right from the start... Much like the firestorm, savage etc.

So if you want a hilux, base it on a scx10.

If you want a defender, base it on a scx10.

Pretty much anything goes with this truck with the only limiting factor is your wallet.

Hope this helps, gaz

[hum@nzee]

I hear what you're saying.

**** - now I'm thinking, get the SCX first, and an Ascender later. This is how it goes - I get an itch, turn around and I'm tripping over new 'toys'! Doh!

Realistically though, I'm not likely to be entering any competitions soon, so not worried about the class issues etc. but by the same token I could say that the few techy upgrades on the stock Ascender aren't worth me worrying about either as it'll be my first trail/crawler and I'll be learning the basics on it and accompanying my son with his Maverick. A trophy winner I am not

Either way, I've dropped the TF2 for now. It's definitely a two horse race.

On a side note, does anyone have an XJ hard body? I saw one on the web a few years back, it was a complete truck actually now I think of it, I think built in small numbers in Germany, but was a bloody fortune. I'm waffling sorry, just came to me so throwing it out there.

Anyhow thanks Gaz, I appreciate your input too, yes it helps, I'll keep thinking and saving my pennies...Hmmm

[ostewart]

I do understand that the SCX10 is proven and the safer bet.

But the ascender is proving to be very popular.

The SCX10 stock is great but nearly everyone advises to upgrade the steering to 3 bar, and also front CVD's.

The ascender needs the diff's shimming properly and stronger driveshafts.

So as you see both have their essential upgrades.

Yes the ascender body is big, but it doesn't look bad when painted and mounted, and if you want to change the shell you can very easily with the included accessories, no need to buy new links.

Both are great vehicles, so do your research and go for which you think you would prefer.

Again the ascender is a relatively new kit, and at least vaterra are very up to date with complaints and bringing out upgrades very quickly.

Axial on the other hand had big problems with some models and didn't respond to the communities, just bough out another variety of bodyshell and called it a new model...

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender-1986-chevrolet-k-5-blazer/519219-vaterra-hd-pinion-gears-hd-driveshafts-info.html

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/newbie-general/516847-axial-scx10-kit-vs-vaterra-ascender-k5-kit.html

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/vaterra-ascender-1986-chevrolet-k-5-blazer/507799-things-know-before-you-start-building-your-ascender.html

Edited January 9, 2015 by ostewart

[The Dark Knight]

If your not planning on competitions, cvd's & converting to chassis mounted steering servo with 3 bar link on the SCX10 isn't essential. I've found the stock steering radius ok on my Dingo kit. Yes I have upgraded to cvd's now but it's not essential. A chassis mounted steering servo with 3 bar link is more for more scale looks than performance.

[Gaz!]

If your not planning on competitions, cvd's & converting to chassis mounted steering servo with 3 bar link on the SCX10 isn't essential. I've found the stock steering radius ok on my Dingo kit. Yes I have upgraded to cvd's now but it's not essential. A chassis mounted steering servo with 3 bar link is more for more scale looks than performance.

Completely agree mate, it doesn't detract from the truck in stock form at all.

Thing is I will be comping both my scx10s so if I can get the best performance from them then my biggest issue will be my driving.....

[sean-vrs]

Completely agree mate, it doesn't detract from the truck in stock form at all.

Thing is I will be comping both my scx10s so if I can get the best performance from them then my biggest issue will be my driving.....

ive promised myself to do some racing this year, and i also think my biggest issue will be my driving!

[hum@nzee]

This is all good stuff people, much appreciated.

[hum@nzee]

Well after a lot of reading, watching and thought I've decided on the SCX, but it's a close call. Ultimately, I know it won't be on its own for long so I'll be keeping an eye on the Vaterra anyway.

Partly for my own pleasure I'm going to want to build some upgrades in from the outset, possibly shafts, metal links and some steering upgrades too, the usual stuff I guess.

Motor-wise I'm not sure of the benefits of brushless over brushed in any case, let alone regarding crawling and tailing and the potential for getting wet. My knowledge of electrics is limited anyway and I've only just started tinkering with my RC collection after a 5 year break following the birth of my son. I didn't think it was fair to be playing with expensive 'toys' and not let him have a go - and my old SRBs wouldn't have appreciated being abused by a toddler! As a result the 'recent' developments in motors and lipos etc have passed me by to an extent.

So, motor-wise again, I'm thinking something around a 30-40 turn to give me some wheel speed as well as low down control? But brushed or not? ESC, I've no idea, but waterproof ideally. Servo, again something stronger than it needs to be and waterproof. Lipo or Ni-MH, undecided, I haven't got any Lipos yet, but I have been thinking about investing in some new gear, so it's an option. Body wise, I like the Jeeps and the Dingo. Price wise, I like the Dingo! I'll be wanting to build/convert scale bodies too, but I'm guessing either kit will suit with the right links.

I love the Defender hard bodies, I've wanted a Hilux forever and have a soft spot for XJs as I've owned a couple.

Anyhow, feel free to offer more thoughts, suggestions and advice, cheers, John.

[hum@nzee]

I've just had a successful sort out and eBay session and have bumped my funds in the right direction excited!

I'm pretty much decided on the Dingo Kit, I've got a Spektrum with spare room on it, have decided on Lipos, and want to start a shopping list.

I'm only about 20 mins from Radshape Rc, door to door, so think I might be best to back and get some advice from there. I know stores can't usually offer the best price deals but I think there's something to be said for building a bit of a relationship with a local shop too, or am I deluded?

I've done a lot of reading on here and elsewhere on the web, but my head is spinning a bit with all the options available to be honest.

I'll be putting a few chassis upgrades in at the start and running it with the Dingo body, at least until I've had a few tumbles and (hopefully) learned a bit. After that I'll change the links and get a nice hardbody for some scale fun. Some of your rigs on here are inspiring.

I could do with some pointers regarding motors and ESCs though if possible, any other tips or advice will be gratefully received also obviously.

Anyhoo - cheers.

[ostewart]

35T rebuildable motor is best, Tekin T35 Pro seems to be very popular an good, I had a Novak Rock Star 35t which was fine for my ascender build.

 

Castle Sidewinder 3 is a great esc as it is waterproof and highly programmable (get the usb programming link too for all the options)

 

Servo, there's plenty but go 16kg or over @6v (This is good: http://www.modelsport.co.uk/alturn-usa-full-size-racing-digital-servo-hs-tg-ultra-high-toque-/rc-car-products/359789)

 

And if it's not waterproof you can home waterproof them easily (I used this: http://www.rcbitz.com/ht-silicone-sealant-4-servo-receiver-esc-waterproofing/)

 

All this is not cheap, but it's better to get good electrics once rather than cheap and replacing all the time/upgrading.

Edited January 25, 2015 by ostewart

[hum@nzee]

35T rebuildable motor is best, Tekin T35 Pro seems to be very popular an good, I had a Novak Rock Star 35t which was fine for my ascender build.

Castle Sidewinder 3 is a great esc as it is waterproof (get the usb programming link too for all the options)

Servo, there's plenty but go 16kg or over @6v, and if it's not waterproof you can home waterproof them easily.

Thanks mate - I've realised now that it's definitely brushed that I'll need. The Tekin looks great, new to me, The Novak looks good too and I've always liked their gear in the past.

I need to research 'home waterproofing techniques' now

I'm going for LiPos for the first time too so lots of new fun for me.

Also just worked out that Radshape probably make most of their sales online anyway so all good there - I'll probably drop in to collect a Dingo (or Ascender - still really appeals) rather than waiting and missing a delivery, and pick up some batteries etc at the same time. Thanks for the help.

[hum@nzee]

"Early happy birthday to me, I've been to Radshape Rc, early happy birthday to me, happy birthday Johnny".

Sorry about that, kind of excited!

More to follow no doubt

[Gaz!]

Great choice, you won't be disappointed

[Rtsbasic]

You've picked a good kit, I've done very few mods to mine (same kit) in the 8 months or so I've had it. Its one of the best RC's I've owned without question   

[hum@nzee]

You've picked a good kit, I've done very few mods to mine (same kit) in the 8 months or so I've had it. Its one of the best RC's I've owned without question

Good to hear. I've got a list of upgrades building already but I'm not planning on doing any until I've run it stock for a while.

I've opened the box and drooled over the squeaky new bits but that's all I've had time for this weekend unfortunately. I'd quite like to swap out the upper plastic links for metal from the outset, but I'm not sure what to do with the front 'Y' link. I figured it was a straight forward mod to go for metal 4 link up front but after reading and watching different options on YouTube I'm a bit none plussed! Out of interest, have you upgraded to front 4 link?

Anyway, I'm planning on a stock build for now, a few months of fun and learning, and then a strip, upgrade, and rebuild.

I've noticed too that some I've seen have the roof and rear section painted matt black, in fact it looks that way on the box, is that part painted on the outside of the lexan?

[Rtsbasic]

Good to hear. I've got a list of upgrades building already but I'm not planning on doing any until I've run it stock for a while.

I've opened the box and drooled over the squeaky new bits but that's all I've had time for this weekend unfortunately. I'd quite like to swap out the upper plastic links for metal from the outset, but I'm not sure what to do with the front 'Y' link. I figured it was a straight forward mod to go for metal 4 link up front but after reading and watching different options on YouTube I'm a bit none plussed! Out of interest, have you upgraded to front 4 link?

Anyway, I'm planning on a stock build for now, a few months of fun and learning, and then a strip, upgrade, and rebuild.

I've noticed too that some I've seen have the roof and rear section painted matt black, in fact it looks that way on the box, is that part painted on the outside of the lexan?

 

Mine is orange with a black roof, the roof is painted on the inside so it still has a glossy finish.

 

I haven't upgraded to a 4 link front yet, but its next on my to-do for sure. Most of mine is still kit, I've fitted some softer springs (Team Associated T4 rear green springs) all round, with 20wt shock oil. Fitted a couple of alloy bits as and when small parts have broken, but its been really good out the box...

 

Best thing you can do is fit a nice high torque steering servo. Its like night and day with these things And waterproof all the electrics, so you can really go offroading, without having to worry about frying anything 

[hum@nzee]

Cool, orange sounds good matey. I'm still undecided on the colour. I'm going to try not to get too hung up on the body (I usually do) so that I'll be happy to give it some grief:)

I've got a beefy Savox to go up front, 25kg I think, so that should throw it about ok. The only thing I'm missing is the motor and I think I'm going to order a 35T RC4WD from RcBitz.. To be honest I can't wait to get started on it!