flywheel, clutch and clutch bell recommendation

[evilhomer]

Hi all

 

I need a new flywheel, clutch shoes (and all the bits to install both) plus a 13t clutch bell for my .28 nitro and there appears to be a wide choice at various prices.

 

I want something that is reasonably good quality but its just for bashing so I don't want to spend too much if its not needed.  At the same time I don't want to buy cheap and have to buy again in a months time

 

Any recommendations?

[Nitro RC Nerd]

What vehicle/engine is it for, and where do you mostly drive it?

[Jamb0]

I wrote this for a hpi owner but the principles and parts you'll need are all the same for any car or engine, Your old clutch bell (as long as it's not worn) can reused in a 3 shoe conversion  

 

(Technically this whole lot doesn't answer your question but hopefully you know what to look for (I've found abisma and hong nor clutch setups to be quite successful in the past))

 

Well firstly; wait until your stock clutch actually goes. I doubt you will be waiting too long as the stock hpi clutches are basically made of cheese! There isn't much performance difference really, but with a three shoe you have more scope to adjust at what rpm the clutch bites (high rpm bite would be for quick accelaration and racing, low rpm bite would be for controllable low speeds. This can be adjusted by using different tension springs). You are correct about three shoe clutches being a worthwhile upgrade, as they usually last a lot longer and the contact area to the clutch bell is higher.

 

Secondly, you need to decide what type of shoes you want, aluminium shoes are good, as they provide a good solid bite at the correct rpm, and they seem to last forever. However, the cost of them is particularly high, and instead of them getting worn down, the clutch bell will get worn down, and quite quickly at that, and although a hardened clutch bell will last a bit longer, the price for one of those is huge. Also, although it takes a long, long time, the shoes can start to 'mushroom' and expand out to the flywheel, jamming the whole engine up and sometimes damaging your flywheel.

 

Or you can get plastic shoes, which don't provide quite as solid bite. But, you won't experience any of the problems like you would with aluminium. Your clutch bell will last for ages, and the only thing that will wear out regularly will be the shoes, which are dirt cheap! Just be careful that you don't over do it on the constant speeding up and slowing down, as the clutch shoes could get so hot that they melt onto the clutch bell,  resulting in new clutch shoes at least, and possibly a new clutch bell! But this only happens if you really over do it on the throttle.

 

In my opinion, i would go for the plastic clutch shoes, mainly because they are so cheap it doesn't matter if they need replacing every now and again.

 

There are a few other types available; graphite, which is similar to plastic, and carbon, which have the properties of both plastic and aluminium, but are incredibly expensive.

 

I can't remember what shoes i've got on mine, but i know they were fastrax, so they could be these ones:

 

http://www.modelspor...-products/19782

 

Flywheel; my lhs has about 50 cars in his house; most of which don't work, and for regular customers, he will sometimes give small, used parts away for free. So i have no idea what flywheel mine is but any 1/8th three shoe flywheel will do you fine.

 

You will need a way of getting the shoes on and off, and although it is possible to do by hand, i recommend you get one of these tools, it's not compulsory, but it makes the job of taking three peice clutch shoes on and off a doddle. There are videos all youtube telling you how to use the tool.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...STRK:MEBIDX:IT?

 

This tool is probably a bit more nesscessary, a flywheel remover. But don't go onto modelsport and buy abisma's

[Nitro RC Nerd]

I wrote this for a hpi owner but the principles and parts you'll need are all the same for any car or engine, Your old clutch bell (as long as it's not worn) can reused in a 3 shoe conversion  

 

(Technically this whole lot doesn't answer your question but hopefully you know what to look for (I've found abisma and hong nor clutch setups to be quite successful in the past))

 

Well firstly; wait until your stock clutch actually goes. I doubt you will be waiting too long as the stock hpi clutches are basically made of cheese! There isn't much performance difference really, but with a three shoe you have more scope to adjust at what rpm the clutch bites (high rpm bite would be for quick accelaration and racing, low rpm bite would be for controllable low speeds. This can be adjusted by using different tension springs). You are correct about three shoe clutches being a worthwhile upgrade, as they usually last a lot longer and the contact area to the clutch bell is higher.

 

Secondly, you need to decide what type of shoes you want, aluminium shoes are good, as they provide a good solid bite at the correct rpm, and they seem to last forever. However, the cost of them is particularly high, and instead of them getting worn down, the clutch bell will get worn down, and quite quickly at that, and although a hardened clutch bell will last a bit longer, the price for one of those is huge. Also, although it takes a long, long time, the shoes can start to 'mushroom' and expand out to the flywheel, jamming the whole engine up and sometimes damaging your flywheel.

 

Or you can get plastic shoes, which don't provide quite as solid bite. But, you won't experience any of the problems like you would with aluminium. Your clutch bell will last for ages, and the only thing that will wear out regularly will be the shoes, which are dirt cheap! Just be careful that you don't over do it on the constant speeding up and slowing down, as the clutch shoes could get so hot that they melt onto the clutch bell,  resulting in new clutch shoes at least, and possibly a new clutch bell! But this only happens if you really over do it on the throttle.

 

In my opinion, i would go for the plastic clutch shoes, mainly because they are so cheap it doesn't matter if they need replacing every now and again.

 

There are a few other types available; graphite, which is similar to plastic, and carbon, which have the properties of both plastic and aluminium, but are incredibly expensive.

 

I can't remember what shoes i've got on mine, but i know they were fastrax, so they could be these ones:

 

http://www.modelspor...-products/19782

 

Flywheel; my lhs has about 50 cars in his house; most of which don't work, and for regular customers, he will sometimes give small, used parts away for free. So i have no idea what flywheel mine is but any 1/8th three shoe flywheel will do you fine.

 

You will need a way of getting the shoes on and off, and although it is possible to do by hand, i recommend you get one of these tools, it's not compulsory, but it makes the job of taking three peice clutch shoes on and off a doddle. There are videos all youtube telling you how to use the tool.

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...STRK:MEBIDX:IT?

 

This tool is probably a bit more nesscessary, a flywheel remover. But don't go onto modelsport and buy abisma's

[Jamb0]

Yeah I see what you mean; I also wrote mine from experience so I guess it's mainly down to the product and how the car is driven. :)

 

With my alum shoes that I used to run (hong nor reds) they did some pretty bad damage to my hpi trophy's stock clutch bell (a lot of scoring and rubbed off the powder coat to bare metal (which then started getting worn, until you could just about feel a very small dip in the bell when you run your finger over the length of the bell)). These shoes are supposedly hardened and wear resisting, so I guess the bell got worn down instead of the shoes!! But as you said it could be down to a poor shimming job I suppose.

 

As far as flywheels go, I believe most well known engine brands with chassis/engines that are just for bashing and are not specialized racing cars, have enough scope to easily occupy any size flywheel (however (evilhomer) if it is your hyper 7 you're fitting it to, don't bother getting a starter box as although the hole in the chassis is more than big enough to occupy any flywheel up to 36mm but the engine is so high up on its mounts that the flywheel doesn't reach low enough!!)

 

In most cases it is down to personal preference, a smaller flywheel won't provide as much torque as a larger one but is lighter than a larger one (sounds stupid that a 32mil one would be greatly lighter than a 36 but when it's spinning at 15000rpm the centrifugal force won't pull the flywheel outwards as much as a larger flywheel, which is why the larger flywheel gives better torque as it stores more energy to help keep the engine at a stable rpm when it is put under more strain (hills, mud etc). 

 

Collets: i actually completely forgot about these, but although I know that my engine+flywheel needs one, In general most bashing engines and flywheel do require one; but don't take my word for it.

 

I haven't experienced plastic shoes melting first hand, but my used hpi trophy bug came with a knackered clutch in which one of the shoes was stuck like glue to the bell (but on other hand the previous owner took no care of it because the other shoe was in bits inside the bell, the spring was snapped into about 50 peices, and the bell (somehow (it came with plastic shoes)) had a worn line inside the bell like I found with my alu shoes. 

 

That also leads onto flywheel removal; my old stock hpi flywheel had some marks where the orange anodising had come off and the areas were scratched. Back in the time when I didn't really know what I was doing, stupidly i took a socket wrench to it, and knocked the flywheel off in one big hit, this created a very similar mark to how my flywheel came when I bought the car. Since then i have been put off using anything too heavy handed and figured out a battery terminal remover did a very good job of getting the flywheel off easily. Just a personal preference of mine which i find works quite well.

 

I understand everything you said, I think however, that both of us have some valid answers but we have based them on our own experience which is why some of our ideas are different. Obviously the advice you gave about the shimming and collet was very helpful as I just forgot to say about this in my post     

 

Jamb0

[Anthoop]

The battery terminal puller is my favoured tool for flywheel removal....and my advise for anyone wanting to remove a flywheel but not prepared to spend a fiver on a tool that will remove any flywheel from these engines, reliably and without damage, would be...

Never hit the flytwheel...support the flywheel either side (preferably with something softer than the flywheel)...so the front (carb. end) is facing up...put a short screw with a washer into the end of the crank....one short,sharp tap with a hammer on the short screw.....job done.

 

Note- on any method it is best keep the flywheel nut on....just loosen it...once the flywheel is released from the collet it will all be finger tight stuff.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Anthoop

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Okay...we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;-)

 

Regarding, 

 

 if it is your hyper 7 you're fitting it to, don't bother getting a starter box as although the hole in the chassis is more than big enough to occupy any flywheel up to 36mm but the engine is so high up on its mounts that the flywheel doesn't reach low enough!!)

 

 

I'm sorry but this is completely false. ;-) I've been running multiple engines off multiple starter boxes  on multiple Hyper 7 chassis using multiple 36mm flywheels and multiple 34mm flywheels. 

 

Curious as to what is making you say you this cannot be done? I'm just saying you are being adamant about  things that are complete false. I truly know you mean well but dnn't understand it. Like stated, I'm not having a go at you...just talking RC.;-) I like you as at least you take time to help...that is most important! This is a nice forum and there are some sharp guys on here.but facts are facts.

 

 

 

 

 Collets: i actually completely forgot about these, but although I know that my engine+flywheel needs one, In general most bashing engines and flywheel do require one; but don't take my word for it.'ve been starting my Hyper 7 on a box for well over a year now...one multiple boxes...using both 34 and 36 mm flywheels. If I want to keep the same amount of torque to slow the spool up I can add weights to the flywheel (although I'd first spring down in that situation). 

 

 

A collet is merely a shim. I have a  box of them. Sometimes they are needed, sometimes they are not. If a clutch setup has too much end-float it I recommend ensuring you have the right collet on before over-shimming the clutch to compensate.

 

Regarding flywheel removal all I can say is I've safely removed 75-100 over the past 18 months using a t-wrench without a single incident so unsure why the recommendation not to hit it.  If I can do it...anyone can. ;-) I can name multiple clutch manufacturers who recommend it in fact.TLR and M2C racing come to mind and there are others. It is a proven method. The only reason I've read not to is because you might scratch it (of course you wouldn't if you used a piece of cloth on it.....Do you guys think I am 'making it up' when I say I've done it this many times with ZERO problems.? It is what it is. C'mon guys!  Anthoop, I know you have more experience to know that... so I would think.

 

Also, ironically I'm aware of more people jacking up their shaft using the terminal puller than tapping it off. Ha ha. However, I don't dismiss that method as I also know plenty whom have been successful with it. Just like I know many whom have been successful with tapping it off.  

 

I'm not going to debate it or if Hyper 7s can be started on bump boxes or if all flywheels fit etc. I know what know and if anyone has questions on how--not if I will help. ;-)

 

 

Edited December 24, 2014 by Nitro RC Nerd

[Anthoop]

 

 Anthoop, I know you have more experience to know that... so I would think.

 

I know there are many ways to get the flywheel off and I gave my method and my advice to anyone not wanting to spend a fiver (price of a glow plug). If you want to hit the flywheel then that is your choice.

No drama.

[Nitro RC Nerd]

Of course no drama. I feel my way is perfectly fine and don't see the danger at all. I've seen danger in battery pullers. Easy choice for me...