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Savage's and Wheelies


Nitro RC Nerd

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I wrote this originally for Savage Central and have shared it on some other forums. Hopefully this helps some folks. It's obviously for nitro Savages but some information is power-train agnostic.

GUIDE TO DOING WHEELIES

Two areas that Savage newbies sometimes struggle with are wheelies and shifting. The ability to do wheelies is a key reason I got a Savage, and it's been more fun than I even anticipated.

I've spent a considerable amount of time honing my 'Wheelie Skillz'. I started doing trick wheelies (jumping, distance, shifting, even turning) while riding wheelies.

Below are some things I've learned that will hopefully help anyone apt to learning something new. Take any/all of below with a grain of salt. This is simply what has worked for me. I've seen what I consider very poor advice on other forums regarding wheelies...advice that is flat out wrong such as the need for 'alum clutch shoes' to do wheelies, or how the F4.6 is not powerful enough to do wheelies, etc.

FACTS

1. The stock Savage X 4.6 is powerful enough wheelies. In fact, under the right conditions you can even do 'second gear wheelies
2. You can configure your vehicle to wheelie on demand or barely lift the front.

To do wheelies you need three things:
1. Speed
2. Traction
3. Torque

Speed comes from your engine. A lot of people think that you tune your engine to do wheelies. This is true...but only to a degree. In other words a poorly tuned engine will prevent a vehicle from doing wheelies. However, you tune your engine for performance. This includes wheelies. So whether or not you want to wheelie, your engines tune solid and not changed to do wheelies or not do wheelies.

Traction is defined by your tires/surface. If you have the wrong sort of tires for the surface on which you are running, you will struggle to do wheelies. As with an engines tune, it is assumed that the regardless of doing wheelies or not the correct tire choice is made. Thus you don't need special tires to do wheelies....but no traction=no wheelies.

Torque is the key variable here. With a completely stock Savage X, a properly tuned engine. and proper traction....you will do wheelies (and this includes the GT2 tires on pavement). However, to up your wheelie game...you need a variable that let's you configure HOW the truck wheelies. This is configured by either the slipper or engine clutch. I typically will tune the slipper clutch because it's easier to change but you have to be careful as too much slippage will cause heat and burn spur gears. Thus it's important the two clutch systems don't fight each other, but intead augment one another.

NOTE: Once you have the truck so that the front lifts up, you are ready to begin riding wheelies. This is where the ability to tune for wheelies comes in to play.

HOW I LIKE TO WHEELIE

1. I don't 'punch it' but instead slowly squeeze the throttle for smooth acceleration. For 'controlled' wheelies I start from a dead stop. This provides full RPM range control. See Advanced Wheelies #2)

2. I like the front to lift up about 1/4 throttle. The reason is I want to slowly accelerate with the wheels up. Lifting to early makes this difficult. This is set via the slipper clutch. If it's lifting up immediately I back out the slipper just a tad. It's that easy.

3. Slowly accelerate up to a point then hold it. Note. after much practice I can go WOT very easily, but my point is that you don't need to keep increasing speed. When practicing hold the position in which you are comfortable. Slow wheelies are easier to control.

SETUP

1. Wheelie bar. I personally like the HPI wheelie bar with the big wheel. I've seen some guys on here such as sc250 whom have put a smaller scale wheel on it...which is genuis. I've not tried it out but certainly whill. Which wheel to use really depends on your ride height (I prefer a lower ride height on my Savage. I know some companies offer 'training wheels', which are the two-wheel setup...but I don't consider those wheelies). The rest are all just show queen wheelie bars that would not last 10 minutes of bashing. The one area of flex I like on the Savage is the HP wheelie bar. You need flex in order to do some kick-ass wheelies.

2. Firm rear suspension.
NOTE: this is to help learn, but softer springs can add an advantage as well see 'Advanced wheelies #1' for additional information)

3. In most situations I tighten my slipper all the way down and back off ~1/2 turn.

4. Tires. THE most important 'part' for doing a wheelie. If you feel you have everything setup correctly, or once could wheelie but now you can't...try the sane tire on another terrain, or an applicable tire for the terrain in question.

ADVANCED WHEELIES
1. A lot of people think that hard springs in the rear is what to use for wheelies. This is true....however I have learned that once you become adept with doing wheelies, there are strong advantages to medium and even soft springs. Think about it in terms of general use. A softer suspension allows the vehicle to soak up bumps. The same holds true here. A softwer rear suspension will allow the vehicle to be more stable at higher speeds when doing wheelies.

2, Throttle control. It's really all about this, and once you've mastered this you can then focus on what the vehicle can do better...what what you can. To each is own on it, but I like a slow lift followed by a steady increase in speed until I have trouble controlling it. I'll usually give it some nice blips to keep going fasteer...but once I learn that's it I'll lock the throttle.

3. This is not for shelf queens. Be prepared for your Savage to get scuffed up, as you will flip over 50% of the time at first. When I first start doing wheelies even to this day, 3 out of my first 10 attempts I end up flipping first.


HOW TO PREVENT WHEELIES

I often see folks who desire engines to 'throw the truck around like a rag doll'. Take it from me, if you are over-powered and cannot stop wheelies...it's no fun.

1. With the stock setup, you can find yourself in situations where it's difficult to prevent wheeling. At this point you should look to slip your torque first. Back the slipper clutch out about 1/4 turn and try again. Do this until your slipper tlutch is no more than 1 full turn from 'all the way down'. If your slipper clutch is too loose, you'll increase chances of heating up the spur gear and melting it.

2. If, after one full turn back you are not noticing a difference, then ensure you are running the stock clutch setup. If not, nylon shoes with .90 springs is about the lowest you'd want to go.

3. Try taller gearing. This speaks for itself.

4. Put on a set of tires that don't provide as much traction. This is the safe way to employ #1, but you rob peter to pay paul....as no traction=no wheelies.

5. Increase venturi size. If your running an engine that offers different sized venturis (restrictors), then try going to a higher mm one) as the smaller the venturi the more punch the engine will have (in most cases) .

NOTE: Two items I purposely left off is to de-tune your engine (LSN, specifically) and try a different pipe. When it comes to your engine's tune, there is no gray area...everything should revolve around a well-tuned engine. The other item is pipe. I have tried a plethera of pipes and can tell you I saw very little difference in how a quality high-speed pipe prevented wheelies. While a torque pipe can help, I have not encountered and issue where I could wheelie with a torque pipe, but could not with an HS pipe. Case in point I am running a Novarossi 9886/41001, which is designed for high-speed runs...yet I have to employ #1-3 above to keep the front wheels down.

 

 

FINALLY: Here is a link to a clip showing my son and I learning how to wheelie. 

http://www.msuk-forum.co.uk/topic/202233-wheelies/

Edited by Nitro RC Nerd
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I've had a few messages asking if the truck is 'modded' in the video I posted and the answer is 100%stock parts except tires and some durability enhancements to the guts (HD saver spring, cup joints, etc). Nothing that would affect it's wheeling. , It's ALL about setup The cool thing is I'm running probably five different pipes in those (including stock) so pipe is a VERY small variable in if/how a nitro Savage will wheelie. It's all about the setup. 

 

A dude I know was once told he had to have alum clutch shoes to pop wheelies on a Savage.He bought them...and of course it didn't fix his problem. He refused to believe his engine was not tuned well, but in the end that's what it was. Lesson learned for him. Engine tuning can be frustrating and eye-opening. I can recall several times when I 'thought' my tune was fine...but simply didn't know what I didn't know.

 

Please remember a properly tuned engine is one of the pillars of doing wheelies.. .And properly tuned is concrete. I certainly don't have perfect race tunes...but I know what they are and get closer ever day.

 

So yeah, right now my truck is highly modified and the clips in that vid were part of the means. I put it through its paces with stock and upgraded only when I saw a problem. Thus it's designed for how I use it. Get rough enough with it (one of the ways I use it) and you'll see plenty of 'opportunities'. It's all about the setup If you have problems wheeling with the stock setup and are being told you need to upgrade something feel free to contact me and I'll help a I can! ;-).

Edited by Nitro RC Nerd
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That's some write up ! .

Had a little giggle at its a 100% stock apart from ! And then at the end, so yeah it's highly modified !

Have to say this sounds like a lot of work to pop a wheelie when all I have to do is plug in a lipo and pull the trigger !! .

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That's some write up ! .

Had a little giggle at its a 100% stock apart from ! And then at the end, so yeah it's highly modified !

Have to say this sounds like a lot of work to pop a wheelie when all I have to do is plug in a lipo and pull the trigger !! .

Brushless FTW! ;)

And Hyperion! ;)

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That's some write up ! .

Had a little giggle at its a 100% stock apart from ! And then at the end, so yeah it's highly modified !

 

Thanks.

 

I guess II miss what made you "giggle", but hey everyone should laugh once per day, eh? 

 

My point was although my vehicle is currently modified, in the video I posted of it doing wheelies, it was 100% stock. I wanted people to know they don't have to modify their vehicle to do wheelies. Make sense? Those clips are old as I was learning to do wheelies....

 

Regarding powertrain, of course it's more work with nitro. That, in my opinion at least makes it more rewarding. To me a hobby should be challenging. Of course there is a huge difference between 'popping' a wheelie, and riding one,,,,and I imagine it's much easier to do with electric than nitro...but still one can do wheelies just as good with nitro. 

 

Often guys will give up on nitro because they find it too 'hard', and then go with electric. This post is for those who want to stick with nitro but still want to wheelie.

 

 

Brushless FTW! ;)

And Hyperion! ;)

 

Now THAT made me giggle. ;-)

Edited by Nitro RC Nerd
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No sorry it doesn't make any sense at all .

 

You say its a 100% stock but then add in the same sentence its not,

 

(  100%stock parts except tires and some durability enhancements to the guts )  

 

So it cant be a 100% stock so thats what made me giggle 

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Had to custom build a wheelie bar for my 'other' Savage, so I could tune the max angle of lift .... only issue was keeping the front end down when I didn't want to go crazy. For the sake of clarity...mine is definitely NOT standard.

 

Mounting the largescale hump-pack right up front helped give me a more neutral balance and offset the rear fuel tank and twin motors. Made for much better control

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No sorry it doesn't make any sense at all .

 

You say its a 100% stock but then add in the same sentence its not,

 

(  100%stock parts except tires and some durability enhancements to the guts )  

 

So it cant be a 100% stock so thats what made me giggle 

 

Read the sentence that follows which puts the intent in to context (which I clearly explained to you).Sorry, Giggles, I cannot help if it doesn't make sense by now. 

 

For everyone else, I hope it helped some. I assume it does as that question gets asked all the time.

Edited by Nitro RC Nerd
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Had to custom build a wheelie bar for my 'other' Savage, so I could tune the max angle of lift .... only issue was keeping the front end down when I didn't want to go crazy. For the sake of clarity...mine is definitely NOT standard.

 

Mounting the largescale hump-pack right up front helped give me a more neutral balance and offset the rear fuel tank and twin motors. Made for much better control

 

So I had this idea once that I could do a lap around our track. It lasted all but the first turn (I could move the vehicle just not turn it); ;-) So my next challenge is to ride a backflip of our ramp while riding a wheelie and then land while maintaining the wheelie and then drive off until if shifts. That's silly, but so is this whole damn hobby. Wheelies are awesome. 

 

I can do everything but the landing. I'm considering putting a delrin stifffner in the bumpskid. I want to try the HPI stock bar which is more challenging but still more fun.

 

I like the electric guys like giggles above saying how easy it is to wheelie. It's like guys who have two wheels on the back saying how easy it is. Yeah, we get it--anyone can do that. That;'s not the point. ;;-) t 

Edited by Nitro RC Nerd
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I'm chill, Giggles. Were just talking wheelie with toy cars. Other than that, do you find any other discrepancies with what I wrote? Have  you owned a nitro Savage and if so did you do wheelies with it? Or was your comment your only contribution? Trust me I'm chill and welcome any discussion with you. ;-)  C'mon, Giggles.....let's be boys. ;-)

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To answers your questions yes I had a savage x ss nitro popped wheelies easy enough and would hold them right to point of gear change . Have I still got it NO ! Why ? I saw light and moved into brushless and lipo's and left the dark ages of nitro behind ! .

Sorry but you come across as its your way or the highway kinda guy not just on this thread but the others you have posted as well, so it would be kinda pointless to have a discussion with you.

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