Schumacher or Associated?

[Swampy169]

Hi

I'm taking up 1/10 electric buggy racing (indoors and out) after a long absence. I competed at a pretty high level back in the day but needless to say things have changed alot!! I'd appreciate any tips or advise on speed controllers,motors etc that will see me back to a good standard would be appreciated. I like the K1 areo which are popular at my local tracks but also like the look of the associated cars too!

thanks in advance

Rick

[Si Coe]

The previous B44 series cars have been well received but the latest one is getting a lot of flak. They failed to upgrade some key parts and its fallen behind. The K1 is a very Marmite car some get on well with it others hate it.

Are you sure you want a 4wd anyway - at the club I run and most others across the whole country 2wd gets 2-3x more drivers than 4wd.

[Swampy169]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, I've never raced 2WD and after spending 6 years racing 4WD it was a bit of a given that I'd go back to it. Will have another few visits to our local tracks and chat to some 2WD drivers too. What do you race and run with.

Have been offered a Sanwa M11x for a decent price which is very tempting as they're highly rated (wouldn't loose any money on it if I had to sell it on). Would need a receiver and the other electric gear. From what I've read I'll be needing a 6.5-7.5 brushless motor but am lost with the variety on offer. Used to be sponsored by LRP which made great motors back in the 90's but that seems so so long ago.

Thanks again for your time mate

Rick

[Swampy169]

What about Losi, Durago etc?

[Alex97]

I was looking to get a 4wd for the winter as the b5m just doesn't cut it in the wet. After owning a b44.1/2 (unreliable) and a xb4 2014 (hated) I went for a second hand Durango dex410v3 and I really like it, they are dirt cheap to buy second hand and mine had around

[Swampy169]

Thanks Alex,

Think I still fancy 4WD for starters but may get a 2WD at a later date which my son can start up with when I'm not using it.

What gear would you recommend? Would rather spend a bit more now and not have to upgrade so often in the future.

Cheers for the advice, more cars to look at now!!!

Rick

[Alex97]

Everyone will give you a different answer equipment wise mate.

How much are you looking to spend on total?

[Swampy169]

Have been on a get rid on ebay binge so have a fair bit in the coffers to blow (don't tell my wife!!).

was thinking.....

Kit

[Alex97]

Battery's x3 http://www.giantshark.co.uk/product/171821/gens-ace-4800mah-74v-1s3p-25c-car-pack-saddle-pack

Charger http://www.modelsport.co.uk/core-rc-uac50-charger-12v-110-240v-6a/rc-car-products/365880

ESC http://www.dms-racing.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=19246&virtuemart_category_id=197

Motor http://www.dms-racing.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=16362&virtuemart_category_id=222

Servo http://www.modelsport.co.uk/savox-monster-torque-high-voltage-titanium-gear-standard-digital-servo/rc-car-products/378699

[Swampy169]

Brill, thanks Alex. WIll leave some feedback in a mo.

Have you raced similar 4WD with belt drive? Which do you prefer?

Deffo owe you a coke if you're ever at a nottingham meet!!

Welcoming others to pseudo spend my money!!

Thanks again buddy

[Si Coe]

Which car to go for heavily depends on the track you will run at - but practically every major UK outdoor track is astroturf these days. That means that there is a phenomenal amount of grip especially on a dry day which has influenced car design. Mid motor 2wds turn like 4wds used too, 4wds mostly roll over unless you trim the tyres down to nothing. The big thing right now are the 'Cheater cars' Alex mentioned, which are basically 4wd chassis converted to run 2wd. This sounds like it shouldn't work but on a high grip astro track they can be faster than true 4wds. The downside is that they don't work well in lower grip situations, which means people tend to keep a conventional mid motor 2wd for wet, slippery conditions.

 

Personally I run Durangos because they are strong, cheap to keep going and fast. I've got a 410R for the few occasions I run 4wd - its cheaper than the full spec V4 but good enough for a class I rarely run in. In 2wd I run a 210v2 some of the time but mostly my Cobra 4210 'cheater car'. Its the front of a 210 and the back of a 410.

 

I've run belt drives in the past and would say they are a little smoother than shaft drives, but shafts are just much more robust. I had a Losi XX4 and a Yokomo Bmax at the same time - I mostly used the Bmax but spent more time replacing belts on the Losi.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Si Coe

[Swampy169]

Coolio, Thanks.

The clubs near me are Broxtowe and WestBridgford MCCs. They run dirt and grass offroad in the summer and carpet offroad during the winter. I used to race on astroturf but never liked it and always preferred dirt tracks because of the handling issues you mentioned.

I really appreciate all this advise. It's difficult to get an unbiased opinion from store owners and looking at championship racers online can be misleading as the top racers generally get cars that only slightly resemble the box versions.

Rick

[Si Coe]

As a rule most team drivers stuff is pretty standard these days. The main exception is Schumacher where the KF the team run is quite different from stock, but all the parts are available aftermarket so you make a team replica (its just not cheap!). With more power and more grip than we can handle there isn't much need for the 'team specials' of the past - you might see the odd development part but they become available soon enough. 

[Swampy169]

Ahh. I'm living in the past again! Remeber seeing Jamie Booth's Tamiya Years ago and it looked more like a dogfighter under the skin.

This is going to be the biggest case of 'all the gear, no idea' for a few meets but cannot wait.

Glad i found this forum too as it's been invaluble.

thanks again Si

[Swampy169]

Will deffo have a better look around the clubs this weekend and see how many are running 2WD.

Are cheaters any good indoors?

[Alex97]

Yep, that's why they are popular.

[Swampy169]

Oh man!!! More variables than a NASA takeoff!!! Right, I'm going back down the clubs and will hopefully be able to get started up before the new year.

Thanks again for your help chaps.

Rick

[Si Coe]

Indoors depends on the surface - on a pure carpet track the Team C TM2v2 which is the cream of the 'cheater car' crop is unbeatable, but throw in a few sections of polished floor like we have for our indoor meetings and it becomes a handful.

 

If you are interested in something like the TM2 please note that it uses a shorty lipo pack and can't fit a full sized battery. Shorty's are fast becoming popular as we no longer need the big packs we used to have to last a race and smaller packs allow more chassis options.

 

Jamie Booth's Tamiya's were infamous for being not at all production cars but that really isn't common these days. Mostly because people quickly notice and ditch cars the team drivers don't use.....

[Swampy169]

Makes sense about the team cars. I'd have never considered buying a Tamiya kit on account of that fact!

Have made my wish list and it hasn't come to as much as I thought which is really nice.

Re batteries, I want to get as much punch and power as possible (I'm deffo going down the route of 4WD but will undoubtedly expand my garage). Alex recommended some 4800mAh Gens Ace which are highly rated. Is there any benefit to going to 5300mAh? And is it common place to go for the higher C rating for longer practice sessions?

Cheers

Rick

[Swampy169]

Is there a particular receiver that you'd recommend? I've seen a Sanwa RX 451R which is compatible with the M11X I should be getting but would that make much difference?

Thanks again Si

[Si Coe]

Can't help with receivers as I use a KO set myself so totally different. You'll find they are all pretty small compared to what you are used to.

 

You'll find you can easily get 10-15 mins out of a pack, maybe even 20. Brushless has reduced the demand for mAh's at the same time as lipo has given us more. You are more likely to suffer overheating than dumping on a long practice. The C rating determines the punch - yes it matter but truth be told anything over about 4500mAh 60C will have so much punch you can't put it all down so there is no real gain with 100C packs.

[Swampy169]

Coolio, every day is a school day. Thank you so so much for you help, advise and time Si.

Really appreciate it. Bit weird being a complete Noob at this again! Far more choice and variables.

Take care and all the best mate. I'll take up no more of your time for now!!

Rick

[Alex97]

Some of the cheaper packs don't have accurate c ratings so be careful.

If I was you I'd have a look on oople for a second hand dex410 with a few upgraded and youll save your self the best part of

[jony nitro]

Neither do the big companys^

[Swampy169]

Just had a drive of a dex410, a CAT, a Yokomo and an associated, all with very similar gear. I know that the set up counts for a lot but from what I could work out..... (indoor clay and dirt track that a friend has set up in a barn on his farm in DONCASTER). Will let you know when he opens it for race meets and send some vids. Never knew he was into Model cars until last night and he has loads of em!! Lucky bugger!!

Dex > Felt and looks robust but didn't feel nimble on the twisty bits which are my favourite part of tracks. Was damn quick though and was great through fast corners

CAT > Gripped like a monster on the tight bits, felt easy to control when airborne, bounced quite a bit on the straight (Mate advised that shocks need different oil). Excelleration was great and progressive. Not so hot on the fast corners but again, shock fluid could be changed to help.

Yokomo > (I was looking forward to this big time as I loved my dogfighter to bits). Hated it compared to the first 2. Came off after 2 laps as I'd already made up my mind. My mate isn't too fond of it. I was gutted!! It did survive a massive cartwheel type crash at the end of a straight which was impressive.

Associated > Again, was probably the set up but felt too twitchy and unpredictable. After a few laps I got used to it but lap times were well down on the Dex and the CAT. Again, gutted. My friend could make it dance though.

Had a go on another chap's B5M (I've had a great morning!!) and really enjoyed it. Definitely suited my driving style and the balance was amazing compared to the old stuff I used to watch. I still have my heart set on a 4WD but I'll be getting a 2WD at a later date then my son can use whatever I'm not racing.

I could quite easily end up spending an eternity deciding so it's down to the durango and the CAT. I appreciate you trying to save me money but I don't mind buying new. Back in the day my Dad could only afford second hand cars and it took along time and a lot more money to get them up to scratch so although things have moved on and I'm sure I'd be happy with a used car I'm going to treat myself to a new one. I'm going to pay the price when I wreck it but I've budgeted for plenty of spares and the guys down at Broxtowe have plenty of stuff on hand and are pretty good at swapping and favours etc. Plus, one of the comittee members owns a shop nearby with tonnes of stock.

Think I'm swinging towards the CAT. It looks amazing and I know it needs more tinkering with but I don't mind as It'll be my only car for a while and I love the maintenance side of racing.

Have you got any vids of you Durango, Alex or Si. Can you swing my opinion?

Rick